"Rupert" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 5, 10:11 pm, "ontheroad" wrote:
"Rupert" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jul 5, 5:02 pm, "Dutch" wrote:

snip...



Wrong shit-for-brains, we've tried the rational approach with you,

Not that I recall. I got totally irrational abuse from the very first
post in reply to me. Are you suggesting that you actually do have
rational objections to what I said? I mean, do you actually agree with
Rick that no-one in our society cares about animals in the slightest?

=========================
Again, a proven liar. Show where i have made this claim, killer.


If I've misinterpreted your position, I apologize. I've made a good
faith effort to interpret it correctly. You've certainly stated that
*I* don't care about animals.
========================
Not in any meaningful way. your continued actions prove that.


Perhaps you could tell me who does,
then. Perhaps I should have been a bit clearer about what I mean by
"someone in our society". Maybe if someone dropped out of the consumer
society and grew all their own food and made their own electricity,
you'd finally admit that they care about animals to some extent.
===========================
Anyone who doesn't cause the massive UNNECESSARY deaths like you do. The
problem is neither
I, nor you, will really hear about them because they aren't tooting their
own horn all over the world
from from the usenet pulpit. The lie you continue to spew is the one that
just because you don't eat meat
means you care about animals more than someone who does. It's a lie.
Proven over and over again by you're
own actions.

By
"someone in our society" I meant someone who participates at some
level in the processes in which just about everyone, with virtually no
exceptions, participates. So, what exactly would it take for you to
admit that I care about animals? And can you point me to anyone who
does?
===============================
First off, I think you protest too much. Having to tell everyone how much
you care kinda proves my point
that you are really doing nothing. If you truly cared, you wouldn't have to
try to convince us, huh?





If not, then what's your objection to what I said?

Can you just identify one position I hold which is irrational and
maybe point me in the direction of all the overwhelming rational
arguments you've raised against it.

======================
veganism causes no/less/fewer deaths just because the diet portion
contains
no meat.
Completely unsupported by you, and everyother usenet vegan, hypocrite...


Well, as far as I'm concerned that's not true. I've given you some
data in the past about how much crop production is required to feed
the United States according to its current eating habits. I think it
is reasonable to conclude that if everyone went vegan that would be a
change for the better, not necessarily the only way to achieve a
substantial change for the better.
==========================
And the point you always ignore is that those same people could change to
non-crop fed beef.
The pasture and range is already there. ALL beef cattle already spend most
of their lives there.
The production through large feedlots operations is a method developed after
WWII. If you really
wanted a difference, and fewer crops grown, you'd promote meats raised that
way. But you won't,
because your religion is based on your simple rule for your simple mind,
'eat no meat.' So, you're contention
that if everyone went vegan is just another unsupported claim. Replacing
the crops that cattle eat would
not be a one-to-one conversion. Feed crops are not the same as people
edible crops, nor are they grown the
same. Our foods require more intensive operations in power and inputs.
Plus, what 'vegan' diet is always
better? All bananas? You'd claim they are vegan, but I'd say they are
not. Too much killing and environmental
damage goes into them. Plus, they depend on the petro-chemical industry to
ship them all over the world. That's
yet another of your problems. You've never once compared the foods you do
eat to each other. You won't.


I don't think it is reasonable to
say that this assertion of mine is "completely unsupported". If you
really want to contest it I think you should make some effort to give
some reason why we should doubt it. On the other hand, if you're just
saying that there may be some non-vegan diets which are at least as
good, on that point we are agreed.
====================
Progress..... So you admit that your privious claims that being vegan means
you've killed
fewer animal was a lie?


snip...