Charlie wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:58:19 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:

Oh fer cryin' out loud Sherwin. Do you *ever* bother to read beyond a
label or a press release? Do you always trust "them"?

The article didn't present hard science.....it was a friggin' overview.
It is supposed that maybe you would do a little thought and research on
your own, youngster.

BIlly offered you an abstract..did you request it? Did you read it?
Have you read any of John Jeavon's work that states and supports the
same? Heard of Alan Chadwick? Many others. People get tired of
doing your homework.

Have you given consideration to peak oil and the implications upon food
production? You think taking cropland out of food production to fiil
your fuel tank is helping the situation? What is going to fuel the
equipment that produces this food? Where are the organophospates and
fertilizers and poisons going to come from, necessary to keep our
present system of food production intact and continually expanding to
feed an evergrowing population?

You are really quick to jump on and denigrate the organic food
movement. Why is this? I am curious, young man. Why?

Who's your Daddy?

Charlie

First of all, you assume I am a youngster because I do not resort to the garbage
language and insults you and your friend Billy use. I happen to be a senior who
has been gardening for over 20 years.

What garbage language? Please provide a reference to "garbage
language". This is not the first time you have cried foul when there
was no foulness.

I think you have a problem with short term memory. It happens to lot's of seniors.
Go back and read your own posts, or is that too painful.



I did check out that article from U. of M., and others too. I did not find it
any more
enlightening. I am not against the organic idea. I practice it whenever I can
in my
garden and home orchard. However, I have tried to go pure organic and found that

I was losing too much fruit. I now use a mix of organic and chemicals to achieve
the
results I am looking for. The problem with the organic movement is summed up in

in one word, exploitation. People are using the 'organic' label to squeeze money
out
of the consumer. The benefits of organic food are overexagerated. I don't even
trust
the food labeled organic to be exactly that. I am for the intelligent use of
chemicals.
At least the chemicals are regulated in this country. There are no regulations
on organic
produced food from the government. Again, I don't trust it. These studies are
again
an effort of acamdemicians to justisfy their salaries and grants. They promise
the world,
but are way short on the practicalities.

Sherwin


We are not on the same page...again. Or is this yet another strawman
approach. Often when "organic" shows up, you pounce.

I only pounce when outlandish claims are made for organic farming and produce.
The original article was obviously a pitch by people pushing their names into the
public limelight. I don't care if they were from a university. There are a lot of
kooky
courses offered at some of our most respected institutions.



The problem with capitalism is that so many plagiarize and
misapproprate the term organic, thus doing evil to the ideals and
principles of pure food and organic growing.

It isn't capitalism, it's just plain greedy folks trying to fleece the public.



If you trust the gummint to provide standards and oversight you are
nuts.

This government saves your ass on a daily basis. It's not perfect, but we
enjoy one of the most protective systems in the world. Our food and drugs
are tested before acceptance, not like other countries who put out all kinds
of experimental junk that winds up killing people. Our government is not
the bad guys. Sure we all hate to pay taxes, but in most cases we get our
money's worth.

Which you must not be, since you don't trust them to provide
standards and oversight.

Sure I trust them, but agencies like the FDA and FTC are subject to laws
from our legislature and executive branches, who in turn are getting payola
to keep certain things unregulated.

You are perhaps simply being contentious? Or
what?

Like I said, what are we going to do when the chemicals are gone,

Won't happen in the near future, or possibly never.

or
too expensive to justify their use.

The real danger is the costs of these organic foods getting too expensive and
forcing less affluent people to scramble for affordable food. I can't buy bulk
lettuce in some of my stores because it is filled with pre-packaged, expensive,
organically grown lettuce that appeals nicely to the yuppies and health nuts no
matter what the price.

Have you checked what food prices
are doing, as we speak? And do you wonder what they are going to
continue to do? Seems to me, in my unscientific observations, that
"regular" food prices, are creeping closer to "organic" food prices.

Food prices are going up because of fuel prices, but organic foods are forcing
out the more reasonably priced foods making the problem worse.



Of course, you have to research which producers are on the up and up.
You did do that didn't you, Sherwin?

Nobody's paying me to do an exhaustive study of this problem. I am just
pointing out some disturbing trends.



BTW.....I have been involved in gardening for over fifty years....makes
you a youngster, youngster.

Oh, another plea for one upsmanship. In this case, I don't think an extra
30 years make much of difference. You are probably still making the same
mistakes you did 50 years ago.



Your unwillingness to see the dire straits we are in, globally, food
production-wise, makes you........what.

If you think organic methods are going to feed the world, there's no
hope for you. I think organic growing is admirable and should be
encouraged, but expecting it to perform miracles, I don't think so.
Misuse of chemicals are harmful to the environment, but overstating
the abilities of organics can equally be disturbing.

Sherwin



Think globally, act locally
Charlie