Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:


It turns out that it is you that are wrong. The earliest camelids are
found in North America, from which they passed to Asia over the Bering
Land Bridge, and to South America over the Panama Land Bridge.

I am positive that I am wrong on many of the details, because noone
really
knows the full picture or a fraction of the picture involved. Mine are
not assertions
but logical hunches. As I said in earlier posts, it may be reversed
that potato
came out of South America and became an invasive species in Africa and
Asia
in a long ago past time.

But I want to use the Camel and Llama analogy for that of potato and
tomato.
I am not wrong on that picture that the Camel and Llama were
genetically created
on one continent of a distant ancestor common to both Camel and Llama
and became
migrated over to another continent and evolved separately. So I am
correct on that general
overview, it is the details I am wrong on some details.

So it if the Ancestral Camelid comes from South America and via some
landbridge transports
the Llama over into Asia and then Middle East which evolves into the
camel, well, one can
easily picture that the Ancestral Potato and Tomato came out of South
America and millions of years
ago crossed the land bridge over into Asia and then Middle East and
then Africa and evolved into
what is now known as the tomato.

So if Ancestral Llama crosses over to Asia from South America, then it
is easy to visualize
Ancestral Potato crossing over to Asia from South America and
eventually evolving into tomato.

So, noone has disproven this overall picture of mine of the Llama to
camel and potato to tomato
from South America to Asia many millions of years ago.


And even if you were right about camelids your argument would still have
been invalid. There are situations where sister taxa are found in Africa
and South America whether through vicariance or dispersal over the
proto-South Atlantic. (New World Monkeys are generally believed to have
arrived in South America by rafting over the proto-South Atlantic.) You

No, that does not disprove my picture. The picture that Potatoes are
older in time than
the tomato and that the Potato at one time was all in South America
and somehow found passage
to Asia or Africa and once there evolved into becoming the tomato.



can't draw conclusions about the biogeographic history of one taxon from
the biogeographic history of another taxon, with different dispersal
abilities, of a different age, lacking a close biotic relationship with
the first.

Your statements increasingly show that you lack logic of science.



So when was this geological time period? I remember the Wegener thesis
amassing evidence
of genetic ancestors across Africa and South America but I do not
recall time scales of when
that took place.

You have to take account of the age of the taxa and the data of the
continental split. Both camelids and the potato-tomato subgroup of
Solanum are too young for Africa-South America vicariance to be an
explanation for their distribution.

I said as much, that I doubted Continental Drift played a role in
tomato-potato
and Llama-camel since those events were only millions of years ago
whereas Continental Drift
was hundreds of millions of years ago of land bridges.

But you failed to answer my question of an example of the similar
bioflora and biofauna
between Africa and South America related to bridges in the Continental
Drift and a time
period? So are you able to give a few examples of similar flora and
fauna of South America
and Africa that were due to Continental Drift and what time this
exchange occurred?




You seem to be committing the ladder fallacy. Evolution is a tree (or a
bush), not a ladder.


I am not committing any fallacy. I am chasing up on a hunch using
Llama and
camel as a analogy. Your problem is that you hate someone and instead
of simply
saying I hate you, you dress up a reply as if you think it is
scienctific when it is nothing
more than a statement-- I hate you.



You can establish which traits are derived in a particular clade, and
which are ancestral, without reference to the genomes - a cladistic
analysis of morphology is sufficient. But, whether you use morphology or
genomes, you need a third species - an outgroup - before you can
identify which way the change occurred.

BTW, potatoes are a much more diverse group that tomatoes. BTW, potatoes
are not the only tuber-bearing Solanums, unless you define all
tuber-bearing Solanums to be potatoes, in which case they don't form a
clade.


Your last paragraph is the only worthwhile paragraph and if you were
half the scientist
you think you are, your reply would have been that last paragraph
only.

And that last paragraph supports my hunch that one of them is the
Ancestral Stock for the
other, and in this case the evidence is that potato came first and
eventually created the
tomato on another distant continent. Since potatoes are more diverse
of a group suggests, but does
not prove that potatoes are older than tomatoes.

So what is really needed is a complete genome on potato and tomato and
that would give evidence
as to many of these guesses and hunches.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies