Charlie wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:04:18 -0500, "cat daddy"
wrote:

"William Wagner" wrote in message

..
..
In article ,
"cat daddy" wrote:

Spread it on the ground, pile it up, add stuff or not....... Just
don't bag it up and throw it away. It's all good.

This statement should become a standard. I've added it to my garden
quotes file, with proper attribution, of course. :-)

I'm honoured. Had I known I would have fancied it up with talk of Daleks
and mychorrizae and "It's not humus!" and stuff........... Nah...

Sound advice! Would add the less energy we put in the better. May
not be real fast but time is not the issue preserving organic matter
is. I value anything that was once alive. Anything that passed thru a
living organism better. That may make it easier for plants to recycle
again to us.

Bill

I've become quite enamored of the lasagna and no-till concepts of
gardening. I don't work anything into the ground anymore, the prospect of
which would generally deter me from adding organic matter in a timely
fashion. Keeping the soil strata intact and not scaring the worms, just
like
Nature does it, is the best.....


Ok, this has me thinking about what I have been doing, which is
loosening the soil with a garden fork, or better if I had one, a
broadfork. I'm certainly not arguing, just looking for the easiest and
most beneficial way of improving and maintaining my soil.

I won't pretend to have an answer here. But, I noticed that after a few
years of incorporating soil ammendments with a fork, it always seemed to
revert to the same come Spring. Sandy loam that's fine when damp and rock
hard when dry. I figured the plants roots would best adjust to homogenous
soil, rather than a top layer of potting mix and then hit normal soil. Billy
said it best that perhaps it's doing more damage to the soil strata, that
then has to recover.

My thinking, and others too, is that loosening the soil with a fork
allows for aeration and sifting downwards af soil amendments...compost,
ash, powdered stone, whatever. Is this too a waste of my energy and
time and not that beneficial? I do raised beds and containers, so
compaction from foot traffic is not an issue. One thing for sure, I
haven't used a tiller for several years. Shooting rabbits in the
garden doesn't trouble me, or pinching caterpillars of the bad kind,
but the sight of chopped worms is just wrong.

Yeah, it pained me that I might be trashing the worms environment. I
stopped using Miracle Gro when I noticed that the worms seemed to seek
refuge around a plants roots, away from the chemical bath I was giving them.
I rarely even water the beds anymore. Some things do better than others,
and the ones that don't are not meant to be. I have some day lillies in the
front beds that rarely bloom, next to the hippeastrum that bloom and
reproduce like rabbits. The transplanted day lillies in the back that I
really neglect bloom nicely.

Is what you are describing also described as "The Stout Method"? I
thought the biointensive method as espoused by Jeavons sounded best and
it was beginning to produce great results. One thing I didn't do, was
the double (or even triple) digging that is recommended in some of the
biointensive methods.

I kinda came to my own conclusions, but it most definitely parallels the
Stout Method. Mostly because I was disinterested in the digging, and in the
two houses I've lived in, I inherited long neglected beds. So, I'd throw
some mulch on top and see what came up the next year. I couldn't really
wreck it all by digging it up, and after planting a few extra things, it
became impractical to do so.

This whole business of food production is appearing to be more simple
than I had imagined, and I am continually deconstructing my methods and
knowledge. I guess the old KISS acronym applies.

And your discussions here have re-directed my interest in growing
something edible, rather than ornamental. Actually both, as next year I'm
going to rip out the shrubs along the street and plant peppers. Anyone who
wants to pick them as they walk by are welcome. And maybe peas and beans,
instead of wisteria on the trellises and fence. Front yard food......

Thanks for the re-direction.

Charlie