"len gardener" wrote in message
as humasn we need to get aways from the broadacre export farmer
mentality, the cost to habitat destruction is huge, and it also
impacts on our weather ie.,. reducing our chances of rain in the
droughts that are part of earths cycle. the b/a farmers here decimate
vast aeas of habitat on somewaht merginal ground, and after around 7
+- years they simply move on and leave the newly created desert behind
there is no requirement as there is with mining to rehabilitate the
area as they further encroach.

Any cites to support that claim of moving on after 7 years? I've not seen
any such suggestion anywhere even though I do know that Queensland has a
reputation for being full of knuckledraggers.

our farmers need to be in our communities where on small holdings
maybe up to 40 acres +- they produce in season staples for those
communities and supplied from farmer to consumer no middle man, the
farmer then gets to share the common wealth of his community, instead
of the way they now do it through a series of middle men who onsell
not so fresh food at prices people can barely afford and not
representative of what the farmers meager offering was.

Unfortunately that thought now lives with the Ark.

The best land near the cities has all gone under revolting McMansions and
people actually choose those things over living in high rises or older
smaller houses.

My Grandfather used to run a market garden in Botany in NSW. Every time I
drive anywhere near Sydney Airport, I think of those market gardens and how
fertile that land would have been given what is growing in the area round
there now. Mind you if it had come down the line of inheritance, my bloody
cousin would also have sold it off to developers as he has done with the
farm that he inherited as the eldest male. So poof, there goes a farm of 5
generations on land that was first selected and cleared by the first
ancestor who came to this country. No sentiment for the fact that it was
the only farm left in the district which was still entire and as selected
and which was the only one still in original hands after 150 years. And
because he likes money. And he really IS a good farmer.

like that adelaide hills thing that land should basically be returned
to habitat is has always been very marginal land (why do people think
the farmers walked away from it after they ahd milked it for waht they
could?), anyone living there should alocate enough land use for their
own personnal food needs, as any commercial venture sooner or later is
driven by the need for more and more turn over.

people can grow enough of the non staples their family needs in a very
small space, we had this type of system back in the late 40's and into
the 50's+, fresh in season food was affordable for all families, and
the food miles was very low so another positive factor, the farmer
casme around a couple or so times a week selling fresh produce, or we
went to the farm. eggs were right there as fresh as the day from the
farm, and fresh unadulterated milk was delivered intoi 1 gallon
stainless billy at our front door not sure may have been each second
day?? homes should be modest enough and land sufficient enough for
families to grow some of their own.

Have you looked over the back fences in your area? What you say is all fine
in theory, but I know from living in the country where there is lots of
land, and even in the drought we still had enough water to grow veggies
round here, how few people actually grow anything edible. Not even a herb
patch!

They'll go and spend 2 bucks buying a plastic packed bunch of miserable
coriander rather than spending a few minutes putting in a few seeds and
doing a bit of watering now and then. A whole seasons worht of coriander
could be had for the 2 bucks they spend, but they'd rather buy it than put
in a small effort.

And if you've taken notice of some of the questions that appear here time
and time again, it is obvious how out of touch with the soil most people
are, and this is supposed to be a gardening group!

No-one with even a modicum of observational skills and who has grubbed about
in soil for more than a few years would use a raft of chemicals on plants or
would fail to understand the importance of insects in having a balance in
the garden. But the basic questions keep coming... "how do I kill....",
"how do I improve...." I often wonder whether people have heard of the
library/google or know the role of the earthworm, or understand the most
simple things about the soil, like microflora etc.

Most people seem to see their garden environment as a place that they treat
like they are doing some form of extension of their home decorating. " A
row of Mop Top Robonia and on the other side some standard roses" type
thinking. That is all quite nice to achieve, but first principles of soil
and it's management and how everything else relies on it seems to be almost
an afterthought.

You and I both know that plants and gardens aren't home decorating, but we
actually grub in the soil. Too many people seem to get wacky ideas from
those ghastly TV/magazines on gardens rather than getting out there and
learning by doing. And there really is no better teacher than time and
experience.

so to me the permaculture sustainable farmer is the one who is moving
closer to his consumers, not lauding themselves growing stuff on
denuded dry habitat land.

Given that people now have to live in that denuded dry habitat land (and
increasinlgy will have to do so in the future) I see no problem with trying
to learn to use it and rehabilitate it.

mollison uses those asian communities in asia where the farmer is a
neighbour and produces all the staples for that neighbourhood, makes a
lot of sense and no good putting it in the too hard basket because if
the oil crisis is as bad as what is indicated then our broadacre
farmers are going to have huge problems getting their produce to
market at an affordable profit making price.

They already DO have that problem. But given that consumers don't bloody
care how many food miles their food has done, just so long as they can eat
what they want, when they want, it is consumers who will get hit time and
time again till they get a bit smarter and start to shop smarter. I cannot
believe that any Australian would buy oranges produced in California, but
the shops are full of them and they sell. I won't buy them but I
certainklys ee many shoppers who will buy them without even checking the
little sticky label on them.

need to think outside the square, the answers will come and the sooner
the better.

No it won't. It will just continue with consumers telling the government to
DO something. They are too lazy to do anything themselves like dig a veggie
patch or even grow a few herbs. I despair of humanity. A good dose of
plague might not be such a bad thing.