On Jul 26, 3:48 pm, Chris wrote:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but perhaps anyone who used
chemical pesticides or fertilizers was made to feel so unwelcome, they
just stopped posting. There would be no way to differentiate the two
cases at this point.

That would be counterproductive.

I've been on Usenet for longer than I like to imagine (uh, I think I
posted my first article on rec.arts.sf.written in about 198x), so I
have a pretty thick skin. But someone who comes to a group for the
first time, asking for help, and gets slammed too hard, is going have
a reaction along the lines of "What a bunch of supercilious
assholes!" Anyway, I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to losing my
temper, but really, someone who comes asking for advice can get it
with honey or with fire ants. Which do you think they're more likely
to accept?

Chris

I think I have to agree with you, Chris. I started posting here about
1996.
I don't post too much anymore, but I do read it regularly with
interest.

We moved to this location in 1984 and there has been no pesticide used
in all that time. I decided when I started gardening he no
pesticides.
That is the first thing you need to do--be DETERMINED. None of this I
will use
"only a little" or "just this once" business. Once you use ANY you
have set
the whole process back to the start. This is a whole system of things
that
has to work: soil, microbes, beneficial insects, birds and who knows
what
else. I don't have a complete explanation because that would take a
long,
long time to tell. Read....But I do know that if you give in you will
start over again!
I just can testify that it does work. Make up your mind: NO
pesticides!!

That doesn't mean that I never get white flies or aphids, but it takes
another
resolve on your part: PATEINCE The "no poison way" takes a while to
get
established, whereas the pesticide way is tomorrow. It takes time for
the good
bugs to discover the aphids, for the hummers to discover them. I have
not
lost a plant in the time it takes for that to happen. Hand pick and
wait it out.

Work on improving your soil---Healthy plants are pest free plants.
Stressed
plants give off signals to insect predators "Here is a weak plant ,
Attack me"

Now about the white flies, if you have hollyhocks, or hibiscus (as
JXStern
mentions) or another member of the mallow family, they are great white
fly
attractors. When I see white flies on the hollyhocks, the hh are gone
for the
next year, and the flies are gone with them. I can plant hh for about
a year
and then they get the white fly infestation. On other plants there
usually are
bushtits or hummingbirds to take them out. Check your plants daily,
don't wait
until there are millions of insects, get them early on.

That enough rambling on
Emilie
NorCal