Thank you for a very interesting debate. If die-hard urglers are not paying anything for their newsgroup access and GB acknowledges urg's provenance, I don't see the problem. I just want to read about other people's gardening queries and to reply if I think I can help and to post my own problems as they arise. As mentioned before, some of the GB sites for other parts of the world are very informative and there is a wonderful photos section. As to the relative merits of the GB versus the urg format, I have no idea what urg looks like on the screen, but find GB easy to use.