On Aug 2, 10:08*pm, "JimR" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jul 30, 10:24 pm, "JimR" wrote:

wrote in message

....
On Jul 27, 12:14 pm, "Bob F" wrote:

Laurence wrote:

[--]
Basically I'm looking for the easiest why to level out our bumpy
garden and get some nice grass down before next summer !

Thanks

[--]

Seeding is
rarely the best way to redo a lawn, and never the easiest way, which was
the
question.
Total BS. He never asked for what was easiest.

Please go back and reread the original - the specific question was
"Basically I'm looking for the easiest way to . . .

Are you totally stupid? The OP never asked what was easiest. He
asked:

"Hi, our current lawn is looking a bit tired and the garden needs
leveling off. I'm trying to work out if I need to remove the existing
lawn or can I just dig the whole lot over, level it out then put
topsoil and seed / turf. "






[--]

Seeding is both effective and relatively easy. *I know because I've
done it many times,

He specifically asked for the "easiest" - that's sod or plugs


More total BS, he never used the word easiest, or anything even close
to it.






In many parts of the U.S. there are no sources for seeds of the preferred
turf varieties such as varieties like floratam, bitter blue or palmetto -
sod and plugs are the only quality anwer.
That's true and for good reason. * Those are St Augustine varieties,
which are warm season grasses and won't grow in 80% of the US.

You are wrong here, also. *The reason you can't buy seeds is because they
don't exist - these are sterile hybrids which do not produce seed. *They
reproduce by vegetative reproduction, as do some of the other better quality
turf grasses, cold and warm weather.

More complete BS. You don't see St Augustine, which are the
varieties you listed in most of the US, like in NJ or Chicago because
they won't grow there.




There are lower quality turf types which do produce seed, but sod from a
good source is almost invariably a higher quality product.

And yet more total BS. Most of the sod farms are planting seed that
is available, in most cases, to anyone. Plant the same seed and you
have the same grass.




You can either resod or use the
lower cost alternative of putting in plugs of the right variety and
allowing
them to take over the bare spaces. If you want to take care of a few rough
spots, just level the ruts, install a few plugs and let them take over. It
won't be too long before you'll have a nice smooth lawn back.
And how are those grasses going to do in the UK? *See any of it
growing there? * *If you bothered to look where his post originated,
and the terminology he used, ie "garden" for lawn, that's where it
appears he's from. * You jump on me about grass type, then turn around
and rant about warm season grass plugs.

There's nothing in there about warm season grass plugs! *Read it again - get
plugs of the right variety !!



What the hell are those varieties of St Augustine that you
recommended? Do they grow in the UK? Idiot!



For larger
areas, sod will give you almost instant gratification and a better lawn
than
other choices.
Where do you think sod comes from? * A sod factory? * It's grown from
seed on a sod farm.

Wrong again. *I live in the middle of a huge sod-growing region. *All of the
quality sod here is grown from vegetative reproduction, for reasons of
bioloogy, cost and quality.



And more BS. Most sod and certainly the sod in the UK, is grown from
seed.




[--]

With sod, he has to do ALL the work that he had listed, ie he has to
till up the whole thing up and deal with the chopped up existing
turf. * He apparently realizes that, hence his question about dealing
with the existing turf. Anyone who's attempted to level a lawn full of
dead grass clumps knows how much work that is. *And then he has to lay
down the sod, which is no small task either.

And with seed, he has to do all of the same preliminary work,


Wrong yet again. He doesn't have to till the whole yard or remove
the existing turf to re-seed. All he has to do is kill it off with
Roundup, mow it close, rake, then use a slice seeder. The
difference in work is huge, as anyone that has wrestled with what you
have after you till a yard full of existing turf.



then seed,
water, keep the pets out,

A new invention, he never mentioned pets. Even if he has them,
keeping them out of an area for 2 months doesn't seem a huge obstacle.


worry about heavy rains and washouts,

Mainly an issue on grades, again he never mentioned any grades.


keep the
irrigation right,


Well, Duh! I guess you don't have to water new sod according to you,
right?



watch out for weeds growing into the new growth --

Done in Fall, weeds are not a major issue. Sure, he may have to take
a 2 gal tank sprayer and hit some weeds in the spring, but so what?
Does that mean it's forget it and let's go with $$$$ sod?


face
it, seeding is not the easiest way for him to fix his lawn.


He never said he wanted the easiest solution, idiot. If he wants
that, he can just open the yellow pages and get someone to do the
whole thing, start to finish.


*It may be the
cheapest, but only if you put no cost value on your personal time that has
to be spent caring for the newly seeded lawn.

Yeah, it's real difficult programming an irrigation controller. And
even if he uses SOD, he still has to water it, so it ain't much
different from that aspect.




Don't get me wrong. *Sod can be a great solution depending on the
right application. * But you have to weigh the cost/benefits and
figure out if it's right for you.

The people with the specific answers are not on Usenet, they're your local
Master Gardeners and extension service.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
If that's the case, why are you here giving answers? * Isn't this
Usenet?

You have another error - what I was pointing out is that there are more
options available, that some of your recommendations don't pass the smell
test,

No, you started off by saying the advice I gave was "misleading at
best". Had you just stated "other options", we probably wouldn't be
here now. And then you went on to say:

"The people with the specific answers are not on Usenet, they're your
local
Master Gardeners and extension service. "

Which slams everyone giving advice here. And yet, here you are,
giving advice. Idiot.







and the easiest method may actually be sprigs and plugs of the local
varieties, which in most of the UK are readily available at gardeners and
even some of the larger chemists. *(I've lived in the UK for awhile --)
[--]

A simple googling of lawn renovation will produce many other
examples. *Is suggest Laurence do that, then he can figure out who
knows what they're talking about.

Only half an error - you've got to rely on local knowledge because local
conditions - climatic, cultural, financiall, etc. -- will dictate the right
answer. *Going on to the internet for the answer means you have to wade
through thousands of references that ultimately will not apply to your
particular situation, and with recommendations that only apply somewhere
else.

One of your problems seems to be that you only have local knowledge and are
trying to apply it universally. *Otherwise, why would you be wrong about so
many of the elements in the OP's question?

I'll let other judge who's wrong here. You are the one ranting on
recommending St Augustine for a guy in the UK. You're the one
claiming that a lawn renovation using seed is a bad idea, when
everyone else, including the link I provided to a university, say it
works.

How about a link for using St Augustine in the UK? Idiot.