brooklyn1 wrote:
sherwin dubren wrote:
julie wrote:
For the first time in my life I am buying trees, specifically fruit
and probably citrus.

Is Home Depot any good for this? There are a number of terrific
nurseries around here but it is a matter of time not money, if there
is even a difference. I am not sure. I was kind of caught by surprise
here.


What do you all say?
I can relate one experience of mine. Two years ago, I purchased what
was labeled as a Belle of Georgia Peach. It soon developed fruit, but
the flesh was yellow, instead of white. My guess is that it is a
Elberta Peach. Out of curiosity, I tried to trace this tree from Home
Depot. It seems like this tree went through about two or three levels
before Home Depot sold it. The exact identity of the tree could not
be verified. It is a healthy tree, just not what I was expecting.
True, you can get some bargains at Home Depot and other big box
stores, but be aware of the risks involved.

That was probably the last tree I will purchase from a big box. When
I was first getting into growing fruit, I purchased five trees from
Frank's Nursery, who went out of business in my area. A few of them
survived, but some grew larger than I wanted.

As I got more into fruit trees, I discovered the best and most
reliable trees were orderable on the internet as young whips. These
trees grow rapidly and catch up in a year or two to the ones you see
sold in local nurseries and big box stores. There are several good
suppliers, like Raintree Nursery and Tree's of Antiquity out there.
The advantage of ordering from them is they carry many uncommon
varieties not found locally. They grow their own trees, with no
middle men involved. You can be almost certain that the better ones
of these nurseries are accurate on the rootstock (determines final
size of the tree). If you were expecting a tree to grow to 10 or so
feet, you won't be surprised when it grows many feet higher. I grow
mostly semi-dwarfs on rootstock like Bud 9 that produces apple trees
about 12 feet high. If I had to do it over again, I would have bought
the very small trees on M27 that grow about 6 feet tall. You don't
get as much fruit on a dwarf, but maintenance is much easier, and the
trees yield fruit sooner than a full size tree. There are some
nurseries that I avoid simply because they do not specify their
rootstock, just calling it a dwarf of semi-dwarf. Starks and
Millers are two of these that come to mind. They plant their own
stock, but on an assembly line basis, so they cannot track each tree.

If you want to grow some unusual and very tasty fruit that you can't
find in your supermarket, look at these heritage fruits. Visit a
fruit fair in your area where you can taste these unusual fruits
and be sure to pick one that is compatible with your climate zone.


You are correct on all points except for the elements of time and
space. Trees are not like buying a TV that you bring home and it
instantly operates to its full capacity, trees require years to
mature. I've purchased mail order "whips" and they definitely don't
begin producing within two years, they require more like 5-6 years for
first fruit

That may be true for a tree on standard rootstock, but not so for
dwarfs. I have had vigorous dwarf whips produce fruit the next
year after planting. Five to six years is way too long for a dwarf
tree to fruit, unless the scion and the rootstock is not vigorous.
Of the some 10 odd trees I received as whips on dwarf rootstcck,
none of them took longer than two or three years to give fruit.
Admittedly, this first fruiting is very limited to a handful, and
I would recommend they be removed before they grow large so that
the tree puts it's energy into the roots, where it is most needed
on these young dwarf trees.


.... and still there is no gaurantee they'll be true to
form,

Exactly the point of my previous message. If you want to be
reasonably assured of getting a true to species that you ordered,
you have to find a nursery you can trust. I have not found any
of my local nurseries in the Chicago area to fill this bill.
They just buy a load of trees from wherever, and they generally
don't know the first thing about raising fruit trees, bushes
and flowers, yes. That's why I only buy from nurseries out of
state that firstly specify their rootstock type ( a good sign)
and those recommended by my fruit growing friends.

they can easily get switched in the shipping departments... and
the trees from independant nurseries are just as likely to be
mislabled as from the big boxes, since they all come from the
same local grower-wholesalers and probably get shipped here, there,
and everywhere before sold to the public. And with bare root trees
my experience is that about 1/4 don't make it... sure they will be
replaced but one loses an entire year before they'll reship... and
shipping costs for barestock whips is typically more than the plant is
worth. Ppotted/balled and burlapped saplings have a far higher
success rate (I havent lost one yet).

Here I disagree with you again. A larger tree is much less likely to
succeed in transplanting. More likely than the nursery cut off too
many roots to squeeze it into a pot or burlap ball. They also have
a harder time adapting to the surrounding soil. These larger trees
are for impatient people who want instantaneous results. In fact,
these whips do not take long to catch up with their larger planted
counterparts.


And then there is the element of space for planting. If one has
plenty of land to put into orchard and intends to make a major
operation of growing fruit

The majority of people on gardening forums like this are hobbiests,
so large trees just become a big maintenance headache. If they are
working in a backyard, this limits the number of varieties they can
plant.

then the best route is to buy mature rooted
trees from an area grower wholesaler/retailer... they will cost about
double and triple than from an independant and big box... but at least
you will have a mature plant that is true to form and is probably
already fruiting. But for someone with a small property who is
intending to have 2-6 trees then I recommend they get started with a
couple of potted trees from a big box, to learn how to care for fruit
trees and have time to decide what they really want to plant in
limited space.

I also recommend dwarf trees. My neighbor planted almost all standard
trees about 5 years ago and many have not fruited and they are growing
too big. I advised him then to plant dwarfs, and now he tells me he
regrets not listening to me.

If one has the space and wants they can purchase an
assortment of bare root whips and plant in pots and then heel in,
leave them for a couple of years until they know which survive
(arrange for replacement) and decide where to plant. From reading the
OP it doesn't sound like someone who will be planting an orchard, and
says money is no object... then I would recommend forgoing the big
box, the independants, and the mail order bare root, and go directly
to a local grower and buy more mature specimens.. I suggest purchasing
nursery stock as locally as possible to ensure similar growing
conditions... mail order can be from thousands of miles away.

If you are happy with Red Delicious, etc., those are the common
varieties they carry. These kinds of 'supermarket' apples are not
the best tasting, and why bother when you can buy them in the store.
There are literally hundreds of good tasting apples, like Thomas
Jefferson's favorite, Esopus Spitzenburg, for which scion wood or
ready made whips are available.


A grower is a much different operation from a plant nursery. Growers
do their own grafting, have many acres planted with stock in various
stages. Some will have a retail section... they are typically listed
in the phone book.

In my location I shop these two:
http://www.storysnursery.com/

These guys have a good selection of fruit trees, but absolutely no
mention of rootstocks provided, so I assume they are all on standard
rootstock.

http://www.schoharienurseries.com/index.htm

This nursery also has a good selection of fruit trees and they do
describe how dwarf trees behave, but their catalog does not indicate
which trees are available on which rootstocks, or even if they sell
dwarf trees.


Both are about an hours drive away in different directions so when I
go I plan to spend a relaxing day strolling the acreage. I'm on their
email list and so several times a year I'm notified of sales. Both
maintain an amazing array of plants, many of which one never finds at
nurseries... plants purchased by lanscapers for large estate jobs, but
often available retail too... sometimes advance notice is needed and
they will notifiy when the plant chosen is dug from the field and
ready for pick up... I bought my blueberry bushes that way and got a
fantastic deal compared to anywhere else. I almost bought my
blueberries on line, what a mistake that would have been as they
charge the credit card long before they ship, and their shipping
charges are outrageous... I recommend no one buy blueberry bushes
sight unseen, you can end up with 1-2 year old twigs, many of which
probably won't survive, and you'll pay as much if not more than I did,
$15 for 8 year old shrubs balled and burlapped filling 5 gallon pots,
already producing.

To sum up, one has to do their homework when buying a tree, just like
you check out a new car for horsepower, gas mileage, etc. Once you
plant that tree, you may have the painful task of ripping it out
because it is too big, or is the wrong variety. Brooklyn1 is correct
about checking the pollination requirements, as some trees require a
'companion' variety to produce fruit.

Caveat Emptor,

Sherwin