brooklyn1 wrote:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:03:38 -0500, sherwin dubren
wrote:
brooklyn1 wrote:
sherwin dubren wrote:
Here I disagree with you again. A larger tree is much less likely to
succeed in transplanting. More likely than the nursery cut off too
many roots to squeeze it into a pot or burlap ball. They also have
a harder time adapting to the surrounding soil. These larger trees
are for impatient people who want instantaneous results. In fact,
these whips do not take long to catch up with their larger planted
counterparts.
A lot depends on the grower, some will cheat by digging a small root
ball, others will give an adequate ball. More mature trees (and
plants in general) benefit from root pruning. I purchased large trees
with root balls much too heavy for me to haul home let alone plant, I
paid to have that done... all did very well.
Well, it may make shipping and replanting easier, but is certainly not
advantageous to the plant, depending on how much you cut off. There
are cases where you can kill a tree that way.
And then there is the element of space for planting. If one has
plenty of land to put into orchard and intends to make a major
operation of growing fruit
The majority of people on gardening forums like this are hobbiests,
so large trees just become a big maintenance headache. If they are
working in a backyard, this limits the number of varieties they can
plant.
No arguement there... I think I covered that in my next section.
then the best route is to buy mature rooted
trees from an area grower wholesaler/retailer... they will cost about
double and triple than from an independant and big box... but at least
you will have a mature plant that is true to form and is probably
already fruiting. But for someone with a small property who is
intending to have 2-6 trees then I recommend they get started with a
couple of potted trees from a big box, to learn how to care for fruit
trees and have time to decide what they really want to plant in
limited space.
When I say a mature tree I mean one about 5-7 years old, not some
gnarly ancient. All transplants suffer shock, but in the end a young
mature fruit tree will do better than a bare root "whip"... and I'd
much rather have a plant that was grown locally than one from here,
there, everywhere, and many states away.
Makes no difference where it was grown. As I said, soil is a bigger
factor. Any arborist will tell you the smaller the tree, the greater
the survival rate. Even a one year old plant will survive sooner
then a two or three year old plant if it is planted properly.
I've purchased those mail
order bare root "whips" and some did well but others died, they were
replaced but a year later... it wasn't worth all the planning,
preparing a piece of ground, anticipating arrival, the disapointment
of opening the large box and seeing a twig no larger than a strand of
pasta but still planting it, and then the disappointment when it never
leafs out. No thank you... I'll buy plants I can see growing.
Did you ever think you were ordering plants from the wrong place? I
have never had a whip die on me, but a good nursery stands behind
their product and will replace it, if it dies prematurely.
The
balled/potted fruit saplings one finds at the big box and most
nurseries are a good choice, but then being retired I didn't want to
wait longer than necesary so I opted for something a bit larger... so
a persons age has a lot to do with choosing nursery stock. Those mail
order whips I think are no bargain, they cost more and with shipping
one can buy two growing plants at Home Depot.
As I stated earlier, whips can catch up to these larger trees over a
few years. Certainly buying standard rootstock trees like you seem
to prefer, will delay fruit production by several years.
I also recommend dwarf trees. My neighbor planted almost all standard
trees about 5 years ago and many have not fruited and they are growing
too big. I advised him then to plant dwarfs, and now he tells me he
regrets not listening to me.
Dwarf fruit trees are rather small, they grow perhaps to 8" ht and 6"
wd, are fine for those who have limited space but since I have space I
prefer semi dwarf (they grow 12'-15' tall and as wide), they are very
manageable with a small step ladder and pole pruner.
You can't effectively prune apple trees by topping them. Other
fruits, yes.
I also need
trees that grow taller because deer would make salad of dwarfs unless
I kept them fenced forever. With semi dwarfs I keep them fenced until
I can prune them to begin branching at about five feet, at that point
I can remove the fence and the deer will keep them pruned fastidiously
to five feet. If ever you pass a large orchard you will notice how
all the tree's lower branches are the same height, deer do that with
all trees/shrubs they browse.
You must have a nice tall ladder to handle your style trees. Also,
spraying must be lot's of fun. I can appreciate the problem with
deer, but your solution is not good, especially for someone of your
age.
A grower is a much different operation from a plant nursery. Growers
do their own grafting, have many acres planted with stock in various
stages. Some will have a retail section... they are typically listed
in the phone book.
In my location I shop these two:
http://www.storysnursery.com/
These guys have a good selection of fruit trees, but absolutely no
mention of rootstocks provided, so I assume they are all on standard
rootstock.
http://www.schoharienurseries.com/index.htm
This nursery also has a good selection of fruit trees and they do
describe how dwarf trees behave, but their catalog does not indicate
which trees are available on which rootstocks, or even if they sell
dwarf trees.
These growers don't sell on line or from catalog. They are primarily
wholesale growers (they only sell what they themselves grow) and only
keep a web site for advertising their retail business to the locals,
which I readily admit is not much of a web site, and it's listings are
probably not up to date. If one has specific questions they will be
happy to answer. I have found all the personel quite knowlegeable and
helpful... they will help you choose, insist upon loading your plants
and covering them so they will be protectected from wind damage on the
trip home. And in fact their main location is only a very small part
of the operation, they own many hundreds of acres of planting fields
and greenhouses at other nearby locations that the public is not
permitted to browse.
Maybe so, but these commercial guys like this usually grow varieties
that sell well in supermarkets, not the interesting ones that home
orchardist's would like.
It's really only the mail order and on line sellers who maintain fancy
schmancy web sites with all manner of hype... but it's rare they grow
any of their own stock.
Not true.
Those "whips' and tiny plants are shipped
from many private growers scattered about in states where
land is cheap and ordinary folks do it as a cottage industry... those
companys only handle the paperwork, their mail order plant business
has no more to do with growing than Sears has to do with manufacturing
clothes washers. Didn't you notice how all their pictures are of
perfect plants that one can never achieve in reality... ain't
photoshop grand.
Your description fits the big box stores and some nurseries. That is
why I stress checking out a seller before you buy. One clue is if
they don't specify the rootstock type. That means that they are
either planting their trees on an assembly line, or they may be
buying from an intermediary.
Here is a site where you can find reliable trees and scion wood:
http://www.nafex.org/supply_source.htm
This site recommends checking these nurseries and others at the
following:
http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/
Here you will find customer reviews of various nurseries. Some are
mixed, so obviously nobody has the same experience in these cases.
Also, not many buyers make the connection to the rootstock type,
like with Stark's Nursery. They see graft failures and other
problems, but don't make the rootstock connection. Generally, one
can get a rough idea of what to expect from these reviews.
Sherwin