On 30/11/2009 6:13 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
I don't want you to shut up, quite the reverse, all Australians should
be having this debate. I want you to stop posting anti global warming
propaganda uncritically. I want you to think instead of reacting to the
potential pain in your hip pocket nerve.


Do you really think it will affect my "hip pocket nerve"?
It may not affect it at all, but it could, and achieve nothing.
I am on a pension.
I may not like Steve Fielding, but again, I've never met the man.
Someone once wrote, how can you hate someone who you have never met?
If you read what he said at this speech, you may understand a little
about what I am about in this matter. There is very little I disagree
about there.
Joe Hockey may not get up due to this issue.
Turnbull needed to have let an open vote on this.
He would have still been likly to stay in power.
It may also result in Tony Abbott being elected.
I dont like him either, but again I havent met him.
But he seems to have changed since JH lost power.
The issue on the table, is the ETS bill, and he knows it.

My opinion is, that this gardening area has become too complicated for
this issue.
I would suggest we find another forum....What do you suggest?
Its fast becoming off topic....



Jonthe Fly wrote:
A speech a part of which is shown here.
You dont have to like what I or he says at times but its real enough.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Trood)—Senator Fielding, I think
you know the rules about the use of props.

Senator FIELDING—It is in Hansard. That is a chart that the Australian
public want to see. It is a chart that clearly the Rudd government
does not want people to see. It shows that carbon dioxide emissions
have skyrocketed, yet global temperatures have not increased the way
the IPCC predicted. To help people with the chart, imagine the black
line is CPI and the red line is your salary. You are going backwards.
Quite clearly you would be very unhappy if that was your salary. The
government wants to make you believe that the science is conclusive.
I think we still need to have this chart further debated. It is based
on 15 years of records. The global temperature chart may be an
inconvenient fact to those that refuse to have an open mind on
climate change, but to many Australians this global temperature chart
is helpful and it allows them to engage in a technical debate. For
those people watching who find charts hard to understand, as I said,
think of the red line as if it was your salary and the black line as
if it was CPI.

What does Fielding know about climate science? Who says that the graph
of CO2 level against time must be followed by the same shaped graph of
temperature against time? It isn't the climate scientists. This is
another strawman argument.

Of course he is carefully ignoring the fact that a number of ice sheets
are melting much _faster_ than the IPCC predicted. If it aint waming up
why are they melting?


Even if you put aside the science, the Rudd government does not seem
to acknowledge that its CPRS is a multibillion-dollar carbon tax. It
is economically reckless to agree to any CPRS before the Copenhagen
climate change conference, where the rest of the world will make up
its mind on how to deal with climate change. There are some estimates
that the government’s carbon reduction tax would be the equivalent of
raising the GST by 2½ per cent. But wait—it gets worse. Not only will
we be paying more tax; there will be more people without jobs.
Frontier Economics predicts 68,000 Australians will not be employed
in rural and regional Australia if the government’s plan goes through.

Who knows what the proposed amendments will do? According to the
government’s own numbers this new tax amounts to more than $12 billion
per year for industry. This is a cost which will be passed on to
ordinary Australians. It was reported in the Business Spectator
recently that the current legislation would have an $8 billion
adverse impact on four Latrobe Valley power generators which is
offset by $2 billion in current credits— a net enterprise value
reduction of $6 billion. State governments too will face a massive
hole in their budgets as a result of the scheme and will be $5.5
billion worse off by 2020. That means less money for schools, less
money for hospitals and less money for the social services which so
many Australians rely on. Australian families will also be hard hit
under the Rudd government’s
proposal. Electricity prices are still forecast—as I heard this
morning in Victoria—to double in Victoria. What will that do to
households and small businesses in Victoria? Council rates will also
be affected and will go up under the current plan. The Rudd
government’s ETS has the potential to cripple our economy and send
families with their backs already against the wall tipping over the
edge. It is the sheer arrogance of the Rudd government that is
driving this debate at the moment; it is not sensible public policy.

And this is not science but more politics about taxation. A different
matter. Changing the energy basis of the economy was never going to be
painless.

REGARDLESS of GW or no GW we have to do it. Oil is going to run out.
Before it does it is going to become prohibitively expensive as demand
continues to grow, supply shrinks and the cost of extracting less
accessible reserves increases.


The Rudd government is playing politics with the lives of millions of
Australians by voting again on this issue now and trying maybe to
force an early election. Someone needs to tell the Prime Minister
that there are no prizes for going first on implementing an emissions
trading scheme—only losers! We are not playing a game here. We are
talking about a multibillion-dollar tax that will impact on real
people’s lives and jobs. There is a lot more at stake than the
government seems to realise.

I find this insane. The anti global warming crew saying there is more at
stake than we realise. What planet is this bloke on. What more could
there be aside from gambling with the future of the human race.

David