In message , Michael
Bell writes
In message
ups.com
harry wrote:

On 14 July, 13:47, Michael Bell wrote:
I have concieved the truly wild idea of developing alder into a grain
crop. If you look at the cones on some alder trees and imagine them as

ears of wheat, you can see it would be a good crop. And alder fixes
nitrogen and grows on the uplands. The uplands are 40% of the land
area of this country, which cannot feed itself. I can send fuller
details to anybody interested.

But cones of alder are not ears of wheat, the seeds are far too small.

My plan is to breed for bigger seeds by traditional plant breeding
methods and the starting point for that is seeds from
naturally-occurring alders.

My plan is to pull the cones off the branches with an ordinary garden
rake with a bag attached. The tree will hardly be harmed. I have made
a hand-held roller/crusher for getting the seeds out of the cones -
the seeds are fully formed and viable long before the cones open. I
have bought a series of sieves which will let the normal seeds through
but will hold back the 1 bigger seed in 10 000? normal sized seeds. I
only need a few for the project to be a "goer". Will I find those few?

There is no way of knowing beforehand.

This coming autumn I plan to go round alder woods and try to find the
seeds I want, and I wonder if you can advise me where I might find
interesting trees. For example bigger cones - is it too simple to
think that they might have bigger seeds? Or a tree which fruits young.

It is my theory that I might find interesting trees where exotic
alders have interbred with local strains. But I might be wrong in
that.

Do you know of good sites? What is the likely position as regards
permissions? With the exception of a stately home garden where I asked
permission and it was freely given, around Newcastle I have just gone
and taken what I wanted. Nobody ever asked what I was doing, and I am
sure that if they had they would not have objected. Formal asking
would surely involve weeks of delay and create mountains of paperwork.

Going around the country seeking those precious few seeds might seem
"hard work", but it could also be a pleasant way of getting to know
the country.

Any feedback would be welcome.

Michael Bell

--

You need to realise that most advances in the past were as a result
of one on a million sports or freaks that someone happened to spot
and nurture. These are thought to have occurred due to natural
radiation causing genetic errors in the DNA of the plant. Or Darwinian
evolution.
A lot of horticulural research starts by irradiating seed & then
planting. They get millions of useless stuff & then maybe one useful
plant. If they're lucky.

I am going to go round natural plantations, especially where they have
hybridised with foreign strains, there is a lot of that on Tyneside
where imported alders have been planted on old slag heaps. I am going
sieve alder seeds, I might get through several million (it will be
interesting to make even a rough count!) in a season and I only need
to get a few. It is lucky that I am seeking such a simple trait which
can be so easily sorted for mechanically. It would be impossible to
search through such numbers for a chemical trait. It IS a matter of
luck whether I find anything.

A question may want to ask is whether the seed size is controlled by the
maternal genotype (and environmental influences) or the embryo genotype.
If the former then you should be looking for the trees with the largest
average seed size, rather than the largest seeds independent of source.

But your sieving process should preferentially select seeds from trees
producing a higher average size of seed, so this may not matter. You
still have to worry that the higher average size of seed is caused by
the environment and not by the genotype.

Michael Bell


--
Stewart Robert Hinsley