On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 01:33:15 -0700 (PDT), aquachimp
wrote (in reply to Jake's
posting):
The key wording is "as part of your business ...".
Er no, the key bit concerns the exemption: you don't need to register
as a waste carrier "if to you are carrying waste that you have
produced unless its building or demolition waste."
If I were to nitpick I might say that the key words is "don't" and
maybe I'd also throw in "need to"
With the caveat that my comments relate to the Welsh situation, please
research the definition of "waste producer". In the OP's case, his
customer is the waste producer (my reference to the "customer's trees"
was intended to be lighthearted but if you want to be pendantic that's
up to you).
If you lop your own
hedge and take the prunings to your local council tip (or public
amenity site or whatever they call it), that's "domestic"
Yep. Domestic waste.
Even if carried in a trade vehicle (though the local Council insists
that you get a permit before going to the tip if you're using anything
other than a car or small trailer - don't ask about the complications
in that!!!)
and the
waste doesn't actually become waste until you chuck it in the skips at
the tip.
I should have said, I suppose, "or fly tip it on the way". Until I
chuck it in the skips, it's still mine and I can choose to return home
and compost it.
In simple terms, if you lop someone else's hedge as part of your
business then at the point you load the choppings onto your van/lorry,
it becomes waste as "ownership" has passed to you.
This is what the law assumes. The carrier then becomes responsible for
something for which the customer has no further use = waste. Unless of
course, as the carrier drives off they tip the stuff back onto the
customer's driveway.
Or if you stick it in their recyle waste bin container...
Oh, look, it must be called waste if it goes into a "waste" bin even
though "ownership" has not changed hands, least not until the waste
lorry takes it.
What's your point? The whatevers (as you seem to have issues with the
use of prunings/choppings) have, in your example, been placed in a
container provided by the customer. They thus remain the customer's
property. The customer may choose to subsequently put them in a
compost heap or whatever. As far as the law is concerned (and ask your
solicitor if need be) they are not at that stage waste. I have an
unused green wheelie bin. Well unused except that I use it to store
things from time to time. Just because it's a green wheelie bin
doesn't mean that whatever I place in it is waste. A lot of councils
tell their staff not tot walk onto a property to collect and empty a
wheelie bin - the bin must be placed on the pavement outside the
property or it must look as if the property owner intends it to be
emptied.
Golly, this armchair legal eagling, make it up as I go along stuff is
great fun. Isn't it!
If you want definitive, correctly worded legal advice, please visit
uk.legal. Here we try to help. Please be more specific in your
allegation and I will respond specifically. Meanwhile please continue
to make law up as you go along (or refer to your solicitor as
suggested above).
In this case, you
have not produced the waste - your customer (or your customer's trees)
have produced it
Er excuse me m'lud, but the trees ain't guilty, cos they had produced
the material but it didn't become "waste" until it changed "ownership"
by way of chopping.
See above.
It then lay on the ground as "waste" (on account of the whole "change
of ownership" bit) (do please at least try to keep up with your own
summations)
Ownership does not change if they are left on the ground - i.e. the
customer's property. If you read above I specifically refer to loading
the consequences of the operation onto a van/lorry. I have not (as it
is irrelevant) commented on the question of ownership of whatevers
removed from a tree which overhangs a neighbouring property but think
it appropriate to mention now to save you another post).
and you are collecting and removing it as part of
your business activity and so should be registered.
But you "don't need" to if you have "if to you are carrying waste that
you have produced unless its building or demolition waste."
Again, please take time to research the definition of "waste
producer".
I do hope you're never my lawyer.
So do I.
Oh!
I know, I know, I know.I've got it; eureka!
Pruning, or chopping", let's call that "demolition" shall we?
Be as pedantic as you like. Now consider a scenario: I manage (inter
alia) a business park where wheelie bins are placed in a number of
central positions. Individual tenants take their rubbish and deposit
in those bins. The local Council (also the "enforcement authority")
empties the wheelie bins under a contract between them and me. I do
not have an office on that estate. I drive there, park my car, wander
around visiting offices, checking people are ok and all that and then
leave. Occasionally a tenant will leave a bag of rubbish next to a
bin. Now answer:
1) For rubbish placed in the wheelie bins, who is the waste producer?
2) For the black bag placed on the ground next to the bin, who is the
waste producer?
While we're at it, has anyone ever been done for not registering?
Apart from the indemnity which the system gives to the customer, I
wonder whether it actually achieves anything. On that, purely
subjective, opinion, I recognise I'm open to challenge AC.
http://www.rivendell.org.uk coming soon