Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there
is 450ac of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods
make a sizeable contribution to the farm, it produces much pig
feed and biomass that is used for a variety of purposes and
assists in other ways. So to be more accurate the above
production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional
means. The comparison would be very difficult to make fair I
think because the conventional system uses many external inputs
and would have trouble matching that diversity of outputs. I
suspect that just measured in calories per acre the intensive
monoculture might win. The whole point of this is that you can
only do that for a limited amount of time with many inputs and
many unwanted side effects. Not to mention that man does not
live by bread (or high fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the
quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me,
have seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.


That was one of the side effects I had in mind. We have chook
sheds for meat birds in the district. Ten thousand or twenty in a
shed with a dirt floor with just enough room to move between the
feed and the water. Lights on half the night to get them to eat
more. The workers wear breathing apparatus to clean out the sheds
and it will make you puke at 400m on a hot night. The eagles dine
well on those who get trodden under. Nuff said.


Indeed. I've been to a feed lot and I had the same reaction
although this was probably one of the better run ones. I'd turn
vegetarian if our local buthcer sourced his meat at places like
that but I can see his 'feed lot' (for want of a better
description as it's jsut his farm) from the road and his cattle
have quite a nice spot for the final finish on feed before they
take the trip to the abattoir. (sp?)

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any
cages on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she
used to put birds that were off colour and needed to be taken
away from the bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the
50s and 60s when other poultry farmers were moving to cages and
proud of it, we were free ranging. We once had a city person
come back to us and complain about the eggs they bought off us.
According to them, the eggs were 'off' and had to be thrown out
because they had 'very yellow yolks'.

In those days it meant the chooks had a varied diet not just
pellet chook food. A question that you would know, is the yellow
yolk still such an indicator or is it emulated these days by diet
additives?

That is one of those 'it depends' answers as in, it depends ont he
feed.

If you feed them on kitchen scraps (not recommended as that isn't
nutritious enough) then free ranging (as opposed to keeping
confined) will change the colour of the yolk. Pellets contain a
yellowing agent, but apparently that yellow isn't carried through
so that in baked goods show up the yellowing. Yolks that are
yellow as a result of the feed they find outside does hang on
through the baking process so that the baked goods (like say a
butter cake) will appear more yellow. I've not done these tests
myself but there was a long article on it (with comparative pics)
in one of the 'Australasian Poultry' mags a couple of years ago.
A great little magazine and as cheap as chips.


My food books say the yellow of the yolk is due to xanthophylls
which come from plants, typically lucerne and corn. Not having
chook books I do this backwards. Apparently corn feed is also
responsible for the yellow skin and fat found in some "organic" meat
birds.

Besides having a yoke that looks like an apricot, instead of a
lemon, real eggs have a viscosity to them that factory produced
eggs don't.

Is the height and viscosity of the egg contents a result of diet and
health of the chook or a sign of freshness, or both? The same ref
(McGee 'On Food and Cooking') says freshness has much to do with it.

Come on chook people - give me the scoop before I build the chook
house.

David

Xanthophylls come from plants to be sure, but typically lucerne and
corn? That seems like more of a production setting. They should get
the same thing just scratching on a meadow.


No doubt they would, this was from a food book not an agriculture book.

How much land do you have? Does the mobile chicken coop offer you any
advantages? It seems that if you can build top soil à la Salatin, it
would be worth your while, since it would be better at holding water.


I have toyed with the mobile coop idea. I am quite attracted to the mandala
garden where the coop move around a series of beds but I can't see how to
make it work with the succession of seasonal planting, nor how to make it
fox proof.

All I know from eggs is that we get our eggs from a friend who turns
her chickens out to pasture during the day. They get a supplement to
replace calcium, and to my understanding that is all they get. The
eggs are fresh, and as I said, the yolks are the color of apricots.
My biggest surprise was when I had my blood work done (at least once
a year) while I was eating the eggs, my cholesterol had dropped. The
eggs were the only variable that came to mind.


I will allow my chooks to range over the pasture during the day but first I
have to build a secure coop for them at night or the fox will have them.

Anyway, if you look at p.265 in Omnivore's Dilemma, you'll see a
description of "real" eggs, and it is what I'm used to. If we can't
get out friend's eggs, I stop eating eggs.


I am a serious cook that's why I read books like McGee. My understanding is
that the qualities that he praises are mainly from freshness.

I don't know what it is with Garden Banter, either. I'm used to Brits
in other groups, and they aren't nearly as, . . uh, rustic as the
ones that we attract.


Rustic people are smarter than this lot. It's a puzzle.

David