On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 17:31:40 +0000, Malcolm
wrote:


In article , BTO GBW
writes

kay;904411 Wrote:


Has anyone asked Garden Bird Watch for their response?

We completely understand the suspicion that sometimes surrounds 'citizen
science' projects, especially where some form of subscription is
involved. The year-round BTO Garden BirdWatch (GBW) certainly has
scientific merit, with a sizeable publication record of peer-reviewed
scientific papers. The survey relies on its robust and repeatable
methods to collect large-scale information on how birds (and other taxa)
use gardens and how this use varies over time, in relation to
surrounding habitat, within garden practices and geographic location.

Although there is variation in the ability of individual participants,
and in the amount of time they spend carrying out the recording, our
statistical models typically include a site-effect, which enables us to
control for this variation. From a statistical perspective, the sheer
size of the project increases its robustness, since it is the underlying
patterns that are important.

The survey is self-funded, through the generosity of its participants
and without this funding we would not be able to operate such a scheme.
GBW data feed into conservation indicators and have real value, allowing
us to collect information for a habitat that is difficult to monitor. It
is worth noting that the BTO is an independent and impartial research
organisation. It does not campaign and it is well-respected for its
rigorous scientific position.

You should note that the original poster has been trolling these same
views on GBW in not only this newsgroup but also
uk.environment.conservation and uk.rec.birdwatching.

I'm not trolling anything!

I have asked you upmteen times to answer the simple question:

Is it important that the gardeners' counts of birds is accurate or
not, for the British Trust for Ornothology's "Garden Bird Watch"
scheme?

And you won't answer it.

If it's important that the counts are accurate then how does the BTO
ensure they are.

If it's not important then the whole survey is farsical.

It should also be borne in mind that these counts are only in
participating gardens and external influences, such as someone
starting to feed birds or stopping feeding birds nearby, could
dramatically change the number of birds counted in any participating
garden.


You should also note that he is strongly anti-conservation and
conservation organisations. See, for example:

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/a3285_00.html

which sets out the court case in which the Woodland Trust sued him
concerning what he was saying about them and won.

They objected to about three everyday words used to describe their
killing of roe deer And are they really "conservationists" when they
expand the human footprint into wildlife habitats? Little wonder
urban foxes and deer are increasing. They are keen to promote the
planting of trees but not much is said about killing wildlife to
protect them.


I have already informed him of the scientific value of the GBW, for
example:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0012215

and, from the Independent website
"This citizen science project highlights the valuable role that
volunteers can play in helping us learn more about wildlife diseases,
even by just watching birds in their gardens for a couple of hours each
week," said Becki Lawson, a wildlife vet from the Zoological Society of
London and another lead author of the study.

Really! Well perhaps the BTO or the scientists involved can justify
their study on this newsgroup since you can't.

Let me start it off by saying: the idea that a narrow study of these
participating gardens can be extended to whole populations seems to me
to be complete nonsense. Birds numbers could be high because they're
being fed or low because they are being infected by disease by sharing
bird tables or being in close proximinity with each other

So that brings me to my second question:

Is this just another charity survey to catch potential supporters
and donors by making them feel useful?

I'm quite willing to debate this at length. Is the BTO willing to do
the same?