Jonathan Sachs wrote:

howdy,


Right now I'm just trying to remove dead stuff. I hope that before the
vines start growing in the spring I can prune at least some of them
properly. I'm faced with a mess of trunks and canes of all sizes and
ages, and I'm having trouble figuring out how to start.

can you describe things further? (how many,
what kind, how they are arranged, spacing,
what kind of support, setting, sunlight, water,
etc?)

it can be a big project reconditioning...

i'm doing that for an established vine
this winter/spring. i only have the one
vine so i'm envious of anyone who has more.


I've got a couple of specific questions.

First, how can I identify first-year growth, so that I can follow my
book's instructions to leave a controlled number of first-year canes
on each vine?

it can vary by variety, but generally first
year growth will be the smallest and smoothest
canes from the tips (where the leaves have died)
back to where they join with another cane. they
might even still be green and flexible.

the older cane they have come from will often
be rougher/darker/woodier, might have some bark
peeling or be bigger around (half inch or more
in diameter). as a cane transforms from first
year to second year it might have strips of bark
coming off it. really old canes will look like
wood and have quite discernable bark/texture.

the other thing to look at is the tendrils
that hold the vines to each other or the
support structure. the newer canes will have
smaller and less woody tendrils. many will
probably be dead or break off quite easily.
the second or third year tendrils are thicker
and woody (if they are still alive).

this is only a general description, it might
be somewhat different for each vine as you look
at it.

with a little experience you'll get it down.
if you have a local agricultural extension
office you might have some help from them
or a local greenhouse person. if you were local
to me i'd pop over and point. or even posting
pictures (someplace we can peek at) and we can
make comments upon them here.


Second, how should I deal a couple of locations where the vines died?
I must decide whether replant in the same places or not, and if so,
what to plant and how. Saying that the vines died of neglect is
probably true, but not useful.

yeah, could be many reasons including pests
in the soil. you may not want to replant without
knowing more. it doesn't hurt to leave some space
empty for a season or two until you do some reading
and research. if the vines were too tightly
planted to begin with you might just be able to
fill in the space from the neighboring vines.
and if the varieties were wrong then you won't
be making a mistake by waiting to figure out what
you have and then filling in the spaces with
vines that are more suitable and complement the
other vines you have.


All of the vines were neglected, but
some died while others thrived. Maybe the dead vines' locations were
bad. (For example, one was next the corner of a shed where it probably
got much less direct sun than most of the others, especially in early
spring and late fall.) Maybe the vines that were planted (now
unidentifiable) were inappropriate for the location. Maybe the soil
was bad. Or maybe it was a combination of those things and others.

righto.

don't worry too much about making mistakes,
that is how you will learn. most grapes will
recover from being pruned heavily.

now is a better time for a lot of basic
reshaping work because as spring gets closer
the buds will swell and they become more
easily damaged or knocked off. in the spring
you can trim off whatever is left over from
winterkill and any fine tuning.

i'm a big fan of "trying things" to see how
it goes. so i'd pick one vine that i wanted
to learn from, (the one in the worst shape)
study it from the ground up and then take half
of it almost completely back to the main trunk
leaving only a few major canes along whatever
structure i was using for support.

the other half i would only trim out the
obviously dead stuff and perhaps a few of
the more complicated tangles (to simplify
things for the next season).

it's much easier to manage a vine if it's
not all wrapped around itself or tangled in
the surrounding vines. leaving half the plant
means at least there will be some kind of
chance at getting a crop. as it grows next
year then you can see what the results of
the pruning on the other side have accomplished
plus you'll be one season further along in
experience and know one year canes from
the older growth.

if i had ten grapes i'd take the most
complicated and beat up one back to the
ground and start over training that one
back into shape. it takes two to three
growing seasons to get a good crop.

four of the other vines i would look at
to see which were the worst and i'd do
them over half at a time (always seeking to
remove tangles and complexity and returning
the main structure of the vine towards
reflecting the support system and the
allowed space).

the remaining five i would only take
out the dead stuff and reduce some of
the tangles, but i'd leave most of them
alone (and do them by half next season
or wait two years to be sure i'm doing
the others ok).


Beyond that, I'm looking for any sort of advice on how to proceed.

above is what comes to mind.

there are a ton of good books you can get at
the local library maybe even some videos. if your
library is part of a larger network it can often
request items it doesn't have from surrounding
libraries or your state universities (depending).
your local greenhouse or master gardeners club can
be a great help too.

good luck, watch out for your fingers,
those pruning sheers can take a cane off they
can do a number on a digit.


songbird