In article , wrote:

Billy writes:

In article , wrote:

Billy writes:

In article , wrote:

Billy writes:

In article , wrote:

Billy writes:
Why indeed. Logic, you know, is only as good as it's premise. Either you
are an savant among gardeners and Monsanto has hired an ill informed
bunch of recombinant geneticists , or something is missing from your
knowledge of selection. Which do you think is more likely?

Savant I'm not. Savant isn't required.

How do I know that size and yield are genetic traits?
Because of the numerous times we've already selected for yield.

Why didn't the producers of GMOs do that; create GMOs with higher
yields? You would think that would have been a strong economic reason
for farmers to convert to GMOs instead of spending more on Round Up and
killing what little topsoil that is left.

The Wikipedia article cites apparent instances for GMO improving yield.

I'm guessing that you are unconditionally opposed to any use of GMO.
Is that why you won't concede that GMO _might_ induce a beneficial trait?

I will concede it might induce a beneficial trait (but so far unproven).
I will also concede that it may be harmful for humans to eat (See Arpad
Pusztai, and StarLink corn).

Why doesn't it bother you that we are all the guinea pigs here?

Seems like slippery ice to me.
Either it can induce change or it can't.
I think you're mostly opposed to GMO because you worry that it will
induce change. Too much change.
Yes, too much change to the environment, and to those who consume GMO
products.
http://www.responsibletechnology.org/blog/664
A free/fair market can't exist without sellers and buyers having the
same information.

You responded to #5. How about #1. #2, #3, #4, and #6?

The problems with GMOs are multiple.
1) An antibiotic is attached to the genes that are to be inserted. This
allows for identification of GMO cells in a petrie dish. It also
allows bacteria to develop a resistance to that antibiotic, making
it worthless in the treatment of a bacterial disease.

2) The cauliflower mosaic virus is attached to the genes that are to be
inserted. The cauliflower mosaic virus is the activator that turns
on the inserted gene. More than 98% of the human genome does not
encode protein sequences. Some of these genes are for suppressed
evolutionary traits such as gills, some could be dormant diseases.
These genes are also susceptible to being activated by the
cauliflower mosaic virus.

3) The spliceosome (a complex of specialized RNA and protein subunits)
from the host cell may not recognize a protein from the injected
genes and attach it to other proteins, thereby creating an allergen.
This appears to be the case with GMO potatoes created by Arpad
Pusztai at the Rowett Research Institute in Aberdeen, Scotland. He
was tying to modify the lecithin in the potatoes, which he did, but
the potatoes gave lab rats lesions in their digestive systems,
which lead to death.

4) GMO Bt corn (StarLink) kills monarch butterflies. Round Up Ready
crops allow more glyphosate to be used to suppress weeds, but it
also severely damages the soil biota, triggers over 40 plant
diseases, and endangers human and animal health.

5) GMOs don't produce larger crops. (Ignore this for the sake of
argument)

6) Then there is the matter of a recent recent CBS/NYT poll that found 87
percent of consumers want GMOs them labeled.

Further reading:
Against GMOs
"Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies About the
Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating"
by Jeffrey M. Smith
http://www.amazon.com/Seeds-Deceptio...ly-Engineered/
dp/0972966587/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298231203&sr=1-1

and

For GMOs
"Mendel in the Kitchen: A Scientist's View of Genetically Modified Food"
by Nina V. Fedoroff and Nancy Marie Brown
http://www.amazon.com/Mendel-Kitchen...y-Modified/dp/
030909738X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298231359&sr=1-1

(both are available at better libraries near you)


To also hold that it can't induce any beneficial change doesn't seem
rational.

Why don't you address the rest of the problems, hmmm?

- Billy
--
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkDikRLQrw