In article ,
David Hare-Scott wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2011 08:32:58 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
David Hare-Scott wrote:

On Tue, 24 May 2011 22:26:20 -0400, "DogDiesel"
wrote:

I've got burn questions about fertilizers.

I've got a lot of old liquid fish mixes and micro nutrients , From my
hydroponics . I used them last year in my outdoor soil garden . The
bottles
of fish mix say they wont burn. One is 5-1-1 and the Alaska starter
fish
mix is 2-1-1 . I know they are only 100 % ground fish mixed with water ,
It
looks like syrup and stinks. Last year my garden did very good on it. I
put
about a half a shot glass with about 2 gallons of water and hand water
the
plants. Maybe three times for the summer. My soil was N deficient.

Just so you know .It wont burn. No matter what. Or how much.

What's the reason some fertilizers wont burn,. Is it just because its
dead
fish. Or natural or something. And if it wont burn, Why isn't non burning
fertilizers available in the big stores.

What else could be used as non burning fertilizers?

Thanks

Diesel.


Fertiliser burn is caused by high concentrations of soluble salts,
typically this is nitrogen salts because they are found in most
fertilisers and they are very soluble but you could get the same from
say potassium salts.

The dehydrating effects of salts (chemical fertilizers) are well known
and not restricted to fertilizer salts. It is also for this reason best
to avoid chemferts, because salts have a deleterious effect on soil
organisms and ecology. Regardless of what Wikipedia says, fertilizer
burn with organic fertilizers comes from the pH raising effects of
ammonia,

How do you know this?

You can smell the ammonia. Ammonia will only do one thing to an aqueous
solution, and that is to turn it basic.

Plants cannot excrete ammonia and levels exceeding those that can be
incorporated are toxic.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/hsg/hsg/hsg037.htm

Ammonia Toxicity -- Although ammonia is a source of plant nitrogen, high
concentrations are phytotoxic.
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/Compost_Damage.htm



You are proposing that although the salt in alfalfa is insufficient to
kill the alfalfa, there is sufficient salt in the alfalfa to kill other
plants? In my clay soil, if alfalfa was high in salt there should have
been reduced yields from my garden, since our garden is always dressed
with alfalfa.
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/livestk/01615.html

I don't see the problem.

I realize that some alfalfa is sold with salt supplements, but that
isn't what I buy.


which is released as the proteins in the organic material
breaks down. (I was able to quite handily fry some potted plants with
alfalfa [lucerne] meal quiet easily, no salts necessary.)


How do you know there are no salts in lucerne meal? Did you actually
measure the pH?

No salt? I doubt there is any plant with "no salt".

Why is this pH effect not seen when liming?
No idea.
Liming? Is that hanging out with Brits?


Chicken and rabbit manure can be toxic to plants, as can alfalfa meal,
or fish emulsion, if not added according to directions. Concentration is
everything.

Agreed.

Are you suggesting that there is too much salt in chook poo, and that is
why it can burn plants?


Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


Manure Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
N .70 3 5
P .30 1 1
K .90 2 1


The burning is not specifically related to natural versus synthetic,
you can burn plants easily with manure straight from the chicken which
is about as natural as you can get. The reason that it is common with
synthetic, store bought, fertilisers is that they are highly
concentrated having little or no fibre or water (unlike natural
fertilisers) and they are mostly or entirely soluble, so it is very
easy to over dose.

If you want a no-burn fertiliser get a horse.
I suspect that, while fresh, horse manure may produce ammonia toxicity,
if spread too thickly.

On the other hand pay
close attention to the content of whatever you are applying and don't
exceed the recommended rate of application. If your soil is very
deficient it will be less risky to apply several small doses several
weeks apart through the growing season rather than one big one.

David


David
--
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