Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:


Welcome, to Gunny's world, songbird. No facts, no references, but lots
of pronouncements and innuendo. Enjoy it, if you can.

Gunny enjoys arguments. In part he tries to do this by starting as many
arguments as possible, and as you nail him down on one, he will ignore
it, and attack a different argument (personal experience). Now, you may
feel like some light hearted bantering, but, trust me, he will take it
as a personal challenge to crush you. Personally, I think he is a
"tweaker", but that is an unsubstantiated opinion.

yeah, i figured that out for several folks
already, but if they decide they actually
want to talk gardening practices and actual
experiences then i'd still listen.

Derald does seem to actually grow things
in intensive and small interplantings which
to me is a really productive way to grow a
lot of produce and it does keep the soil
covered more than monocropping and leaving
the ground idle. so he's worth listening
to when he's not on about you or being
idiotically obtuse. i suspect they are
both somehow connected to the agribusiness
or the chemical business or perhaps even
big oil. not that they've had the guts
to give any of their backgrounds here...

tis the season of hot airs...

(btw Gunner assuming someone is one
gender or another on usenet is pointless
as i'm not here to wave my genitalia
around to prove my gardening prowess,
but perhaps that is what you need to
be impressed)


....much snipped...
Gunny, give an example of a faux google reference that I have given,
please, or continue to show yourself as an idiot.

Now, as far as implying that chemferts kill soil life, I don't imply, I
quote experts.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis

i suppose these are just beer swilling
high school dropouts without any actual
soil science experiences... or?


http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1
(Available at a library near you.)

Chapter 1

What Is the Soil Food Web and Why Should Gardeners Care?

Negative impacts on the soil food web

Chemical fertilizers negatively impact the soil food web by killing off
entire portions of it. What gardener hasn't seen what table salt does to
a slug? Fertilizers are salts; they suck the water out of the bacteria,
fungi, protozoa, and nematodes in the soil. Since these microbes are at
the very foundation of the soil food web nutrient system, you have to
keep adding fertilizer once you start using it regularly. The
microbiology is missing and not there to do its job, feeding the plants.

....much more snipped...

----

Lab tests may tell you where you are starting, but a properly maintained
garden will take you where you want to go.

but do you need them? i haven't
used one in all my years of gardening.
if i were in a place that had difficult
soils or severe climate (but one reason
i live where i do is that i don't want
to put up with arid soil gardening).


They did throw you a bone, Gunny-boy: a properly tuned ecological garden
rarely needs soluble fertilizers. That implies that there may be, on the
rare occasion, a place for chemferts.
QED

Meanwhile, back at the ranch.


no i do not have to imply that at all if
i tell the OP to not dump it at all then i've
helped them avoid the problems it can cause.


We all know that is a grossly
exagerrated lie. Nute salts are the same regardless. Ya just can't
change science and really, emperical data is so much more accurate
than your ilk's taste test method.

Classic Gunny. Do you still beat your wife, Gunny?
No attempt to show that the statement is a lie, just a simple
unsubstantiated declaration that Gunny knows best.

i never argue with drunks or people
with guns (if i can possibly know it).


As far as the nutrients from chemferts, and organic fertilizer being
equivalent, Gunny is WRONG. Nitrate is nitrate to be sure, but one
nitrate comes from a salt (that's bad, as you will know if you read the
above), and the other comes from organic material. Just another example
of Gunny-boy's ignorance, or another of his disingenuous prevarications.

Are you an ilk, songbird? Do you have a taste test?
Gunny-boy again makes accusations without substantiation.

i do have taste tests for a lot of
garden veggies and i sure know the
difference between a strawberry that
hasn't been sprayed with fungicides
and those that have. i love being
able to go out and have breakfast
right in the garden as i'm weeding
or picking without having to worry
about various poisons that are on
most produce that doesn't come from
organic means.

no ilk that i know of, but several
inklings and a severe case of impishness
at times.


if by emperical data you mean millions of
acres of destroyed top soil then you've got
all the evidence you need from dumping "Nute
salts" (whatever those are).


As for being free everything has a cost.
King of the bleeding obvious, Gunny-boy is.

Keep burning that wood birdie, love how that saves the environment!

i dunno how much more burning i'll be doing,
but talking about the carbon cycle from the
rotting of organic materials in the compost
pile (or buried in the ground) and comparing
that to what happens to the carbon when you
make charcoal and the various soil nutrition
aspects of that is probably a much more
scientific process than telling someone "ok,
dump that on the soil".

but whatever.

Not to mention the release into the environment of carbon that had been
long sequestered (gas and oil), instead of cycling the present carbon.
Three hundred and fifty parts per million of CO2 is considered safe, and
we are presently at 390 ppm CO2. As St Molly said, "When you find
yourself in a hole, stop digging."

yep, but the selfish buggers refuse to
stop their behaviors and that means that
millions will be displaced as a result
and likely millions will starve or die
in the mayhem.


Joining in the laughter!!

yuk yuk.

Why not? It's Gunny-boy, who is the joke ;O)

Bottom line, Gunny isn't interested at arriving at an understanding.
He, for some reason, wants an argument for arguments sake.

nothing wrong with that if he could actually
put a coherent argument together. so far i'd
say _not likely_.


songbird