On 17/08/2011 22:57, Danny Colyer wrote:
On 17/08/2011 14:30, Baz wrote:
I do not want to bring back hanging or anything revenge-based.

I would like repeat violent criminals remanded into custody until their
case can be dealt with.

I can't help wondering if you have gotten hold of the wrong end of the
stick.

Nick perhaps needs reminding that punishment is not the sole purpose of
incarceration. It is also sometimes required in order to protect the
public.

But they are comparatively rare. We had our village hall repainted by a
bunch of reprobates on the Community Payback Scheme. I will retell the
experience here as it might help the debate somewhat.

I would say the people we got varied enormously but there were five main
types - almost all young men and a scary number were illiterate:

Individuals so simple and gullible they should be in sheltered housing.
(typically caught by the police because they didn't try to run away)

Tradesmen caught speeding or drunk driving and sometimes both.

Otherwise reasonable guys drunk and disorderly and/or for assault after
a night on the town who took a swipe at someone. A disturbing subset of
these were recent returnees from Iraq or Afghanistan which suggests to
me the Army was failing in its duty of care to its employees.

Drug addicts caught stealing or in possession.

All of the above were quite reasonable if a bit unruly when sober though
we did have a guy who could see pink elephants one day! Most of the
trademen got stuck in and did what needed doing until their hours were
up. A couple were really good decorators and carpenters too.

There was a tiny hardcore of bone idle absolute wasters for whom the
system simply did not work. They knew their rights and knew detailed
sections of the law. They were not the brainless idiots portrayed in the
media. The really annoying thing for me watching them was that whilst
the front line guys did their best to teach them useful skills (like how
to paint a door or windowframe) the next tier of management up the chain
was to put it in a nutshell absolutely f*cking useless. The guys on the
front line had no effective support from their bosses.

There were no adequate sanctions against the tiny handful of persistent
troublemakers. For my money they should have been chained together and
put on litter picking duty on motorways or dropped in the middle of the
Pennine way with a large supply of rock and told to get on with it. Food
and water only supplied in the unlikely event of good behaviour.

It sounds to me like Baz got landed with a member of this latter group
who know *exactly* how to play the system.

Regards,
Martin Brown