Wow thanks for the info...im going to see how things go over the next few weeks in regards to the shrubs on the LHS...ive also noticed just to the right of these shrubs is another bush...i remember seeing one fleeting pinkish rose last summer. But i wasnt sure if the flower i saw was from the garden at the back...looking now i can see the bottom of this bush through the gaps in the ivy...so my thoughts are that the ivy could strangle the bush? am i correct? if so then i need to do something about that..although to be honest i know nothing about rose bushes and think im far too inexperienced.

Im going to take the advice on here about the ivy...i have just nipped to B&Q to get myself started...iv bought some Glyphosate but im not going to use it on the ivy now as suggested it would be better to cut it down and rip up the roots so im going to go with that advice and get my other half to do that bit.

Im going to get started in a minute...while im out there i will take more photos so you can get a better look at the shrub with funny brown petals as we've come to know it!

oh and someone said it might be an idea to mention where about's i am...i try not to bragg about it but here go's...viva la rochdale. ha. so far its grim but once we get to april it should warm up nicely.

thanks again