On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:49:01 PM UTC-6, Billy wrote:
In article ,

Roy wrote:



On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:46:26 AM UTC-6, songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:



Roy wrote:



...



You shouldn't through words like "ignorance" around so carelessly.







*hahahaha*











When you say things like, "If small amounts increase the chance of



cancer in rats then DON'T FEED IT TO RATS...problem solved.", you can



expect to be consigned to a playpen.







Ignorance can be cured, stupidity, can't.







and the fact that reality doesn't care if you



are stupid and/or ignorant, if in the end you



poison your environment enough that it can no



longer sustain life then you and/or your children



are history.















As a farmer, I know what RoundUp does. I have sprayed quack grass with

it and



it works well at the recommended rate. Not bad on Canadian



thistle when applied when they are in the rosette stage in August or



early September. When used for its intended purposes it is a great



product. Other activities of Monsanto with breeding of RR resistant



varieties, I question.







The occasional application to an isolated problem, may have merit,







if it is either occasional or isolated it could be dealt



with in another manner. growing taller perennial cover



crops, not mowing too short, hand weeding, targeted grazing



by goats, ...











but



in wholesale use for weeding crops, you are damaging the topsoil, which



in the long run we will need top grow post industrial crops.







besides the fact that monoculture farming



wastes a lot of productivity because the land



is left bare for long periods of time along



with erosion of the topsoil.











Presently,



it takes more than a calorie of fossil fuel energy to produce a calorie



of food; before the advent of chemical fertilizer a farm produced more



than two calories of food energy for every calorie of energy invested.







this equation begins to shift with the introduction



of solar and wind energy into the mix. that at least



is a small improvement, but i still agree that the



adding of chemical fertilizers without improving the



soil overall is going to still be a problem. it burns



the organic matter out of the soil very quickly.











Interplanting will grow more food than monocultures. For this more labor



intensive agriculture, you need the ecology of topsoil.







i think the problem is much more than damage



to the soil, i think there is a lack in studies



which track the effects of the gene fragments



inserted into food plants. how those fragments



are digested, if they can start an allergic



or other autoimmune response in people before



they reach the stomach and intestines, if they



affect the digestive tract microbes, etc.







one mention in recent news that made me think of



the law of unintended side effects -- about how



GMO crops have tougher stalks which requires machines



to get new/harder/different tires more often (some



farmers have their tires baked to harden them) that



chopping blades wear out faster, etc.



songbird



"

this equation begins to shift with the introduction

of solar and wind energy into the mix. that at least

is a small improvement, but i still agree that the

adding of chemical fertilizers without improving the

soil overall is going to still be a problem. it burns

the organic matter out of the soil very quickly. "



The added chemical fertilizer does not "burn" organic matter out of the soil.

Obviously you have never farmed.

Excessive amounts of chemical fertilizers especially anhydrous ammonia may

have a deleterious effect on the micro-organisms naturally present in the

soil. These micro-organisms are very important to how organic matter breaks

down to free up nutrients that plants require.



Farmers who allow oil drilling companies to spread waste drilling mud on

their fields are totally unaware of the damage that these muds do to the

micro-organisms present in the soil. Nothing grows without these

micro-organisms.



And obviously you have never farmed, or you are being overly critical of

the word "burned".



In fields, or in compost, a 25/1 ratio is needed for carbon to nitrogen

to maintain a healthy environment for soil micro-organisms. Injection of

anhydrous ammonia into the soil will encourage bacteria to consume what

organic material as there is. Think of it as "carbs verses protein".

Organic material helps hold water in the soil. Without a carbon/

nitrogen balance of 25/1, bacteria die, leaving less bacterial exudate

to hold the soil together in the face of wind, which leads to erosion.



What kind of farmer are you?



--

Welcome to the New America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

or

E Pluribus Unum

Green Party Nominee Jill Stein & Running Mate, Cheri Honkala

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/7/13/green_party_nominee_jill_stein_running

I was brought up on a mixed farm. We grew most grains and raised cattle, hogs, chickens, turkeys and horses. I only grow grain crops now. I graduated from an accredited agricultural college many moons ago but still keep up-to-date as much as possible and use the Internet extensively and read a good many magazines devoted to agriculture.

I have read quite a bit regarding Monsanto et al. I believe that they are doing more harm in the world than good but others differ.