In article ,
Rick wrote:
here is a synopsis of a recent study.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0425140114.htm
There are, of course, others out there. Bottom line from my reading
is that organic and permaculture methods fall behind on grain
production, but do better with other crops. It seems likely that for
the forseeable future many farming methods will be required to sustain
a growing population at affordable prices while minimizing damage to
the eco system.
The problem with grain production is that you are talking about
monocultures, chemicals, and possibly a second crop in a season.
Numero-uno: Monocultures produce less food per acre than inter-planted
crops.
Numero-two-o: Planting the same crop on the same land year in, and year
out will encourage crop pests to flourish.
Number-three-o: The cost of chemical fertilizers, and pesticides is
linked to to the price of fossil fuels. As the price of fossil
fuels go up, so must the cost of the yield.
Numero-four-o: The use of chemical fertilizers kills topsoil buy killing
microorganisms (like salt on a snail), and the lack or organic inputs
(manure, stubble). Dying and dead soil requires ever more chemical
fertilizers to maintain crop yields. The nitrates poison the ground
water, and the water table. Phosphates cause algal blooms, which
when they die suck the oxygen out of the water, and give you
"dead zones" at the mouths of rivers, further reducing available
food. The nitrogen from chemical fertilizers is stored in the leaves
of the plant. These are fast growing leaves because of the nitrogen.
Insects are attracted to the leaves because of the nitrogen, which is
easily accessed because the fast growing leaves are tender.
Numero-five-o: Lest we forget, GMOs don't produce more yield,
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/20/8405
and some GMOs do have nasty side effects on lab animals. GMOs do
allow more biocides to be pour onto our food (Roundup), and introduce
bacillus Thuringiensis toxins into our food.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...toxins-blood-9
3-unborn-babies.html
Roundup has been shown to reduce crops, and bacillus Thuringiensis
toxins and meant to kill insects, both beneficial, and pests. We are
still trying to figure out what is killing off the bees that
pollinate 70% of what we eat.
It's not just bees. We are losing our agricultural biodiversity with
industrial agriculture.
Numero-six-o: You have none of the above problems with organic farming.
Productivity in industrial agriculture is measured in terms of
"yield" per acre, not overall output per acre. And the only input
taken into account is labour, which is abundant, not natural
resources which are scarce.
A resource hungry and resource destructive system of agriculture is
not land saving, it is land demanding. That is why industrial
agriculture is driving a massive planetary land grab. It is leading to
the deforestation of the rainforests in the Amazon for soya and in
Indonesia for palm oil. And it is fuelling a land grab in Africa,
displacing pastoralists and peasants.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/08/us-food-idUKTRE7272FN20110308
Numero-seven-o: Commercially grown fruits and vegetables are less
expensive, are prettier to look at, contain approximately 10-50% of
the nutrients found in organic produce, are often depleted in
enzymes, and are contaminated with a variety of herbicides,
pesticides and other agricultural chemicals.
In comparing organically and commercially grown wheat, researchers
found the organic wheat contained 20-80% less metal residues
(aluminum, cadmium, cobalt, lead, mercury), and contained 25-1300%
more of specific nutrients (calcium, chromium, copper, iodine,
magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, phosphorus, potassium,
selenium, sulfur, and zinc).
Journal of Applied Nutrition, Vol. 45, #1, 1993.
On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 08:17:30 +1000, "David Hare-Scott"
wrote:
Ecnerwal wrote:
In article
,
Billy wrote:
I thank you for introducing me to Permies;
http://www.permies.com/. What groups does Jay Green post in, or is
it just Permies?
Several farming and poultry sites; when I was researching the use of
fermented feeds, his stuff came up in several places since he's
someone who does it and posts about it.
Be aware that permies is somewhat prone to being what its owner wants
to hear - minor discussion is allowed, major disagreements vanish
into thin air, leaving only what he agrees with (not even a "post
deleted by moderator" message.) I thought more highly of it before I
saw that happen a few times. I haven't been back much since then. I
prefer to talk with grown ups, or wise children.
I like tree and bush crops and "permanent agriculture." When lazy and
efficient are the same thing, I'm all for that kind of lazy.
permaculture-with-a-capital-P seems to be more about paying money to
take courses to get certified to teach courses that you charge people
money for so they can get certified, in my somewhat jaundiced view. I
don't find it all that compelling, though it has produced some
materials I think worthy of a read, so long as I'm not paying an arm
and a leg for them, or required to believe (or pretend to believe)
everything in them...but there are also good books on the subject
that predate the certification-mad folks.
I would really like to see a credible estimate of two things:
- The cost efficiency of wide scale permaculture, that is what would food
cost compared to conventional agriculture a) on the market today b) taking
into account long term costs of pollution etc, which almost never figure in
our 'costs'.
- Whether it can really be sustainable in a closed system. The best
examples that I have seen still use considerable external inputs. The answer
is to this is in part tied up with how you define the system's boundaries
but the dedicated are claiming that boundary is and ought to be at the
property boundary - in which case I wonder if it is possible.
David
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/
Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg