In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:
...
Ah yes, in that great rising up morning, bye and bye, when we know
everything, then nothing will be too hard for humanity to fix. It will
be wonderful.

In the meantime, we walk in the dark, barking our shins on coffee
tables, and running into walls.

...

well then tell me,

Try and stop me ;O)

har!


what would you do knowing that in
some number of years the planet earth, the sun and most
of the local system will be gone or uninhabitable?

Planning ahead is a good thing, but looking out some 5 billion years
might be pushing the envelope some.

yes, but perhaps it's not 5 billion years ahead
when we face a planet busting asteriod that we
can't detect or dodge or the next ice-age (but
perhaps global warming will be good for something
after all)...

so you're answer so far is "do nothing" too?

You taking lessons from tx.guns now? They love to tell you that you said
something (that you didn't), and then disprove it in they own,
inimitable, logic free fashion.

Seems that's where you'd be going after saying that perhaps global
warming will be good for something. I doubt that it will be good for the
starving, homeless refugees.


What are you going to do in a few years when you're gone, or non-viable?
(I'll sign a petition, if you like. ;O)

if you like signing petitions and putting some
action behind it try the one at the National
Geographic newswatch website for restoring water
flow to the Colorado River Delta. also, Sandra
Postel and others have plenty of interesting
articles/reading at the Water Currents section.

You want to kill Arizona's golf courses? TERRORIST!
It's a job killer.

as for me, not sure yet, the worms and other
soil critters get to digest me, beyond that i'm
not decided yet because a lot depends upon if i
stay here or move someplace else. the older i
get the more likely i'm not going to have the
energy to start all over again from scratch, but
that is what i would really like to do.

I'll probably be moving soon too. I hate to leave this hill, but we're
getting too old to live on a slope. Living on the flat makes so many
things easier.


do you think that we are stuck on this planet forever
without recourse?

The trouble with going away is where ever you go, there you are.

i've always been happy with my own company.


I've never really felt "stuck" on this planet, even if there is no way
for me to walk home.

i don't feel stuck, but we are near the bottom of
a deep gravity well which costs a lot to escape.
it may not be stuck, but it's darned close if we
have to get away quick.

the question to be answered at present is if
humans can transfer enough of our environment to
another closed system (space-ship, colony on the
moon, mars, or asteroid) so that it can be self-
sustaining. if we cannot figure that out then we
are stuck or we must change to a different form which
does not require such an extensive support
environment.

When you consider how much we (Homidea) have changed in the last 2
million years, if we are still around when the Sun goes "red giant" I'd
be surprised if we recognized our descendants.


Mr. Fukuoka and his natural farming would say that
we are not meant to know nature, that science is
useless, that nature is perfect, etc. to be happy is
to be a farmer and doing as little as possible.

Mr. Fukuoka is a wise man. You have your family and friends with
barbecues, and cheating at cards afterwards, on the week-ends. There are
the plants, and animals to know, and the smell that comes after the
rain, the flowers of spring, tending the garden, a cooling swim on a hot
day, stars to look at, the colors of harvest, the migrating geese, the
sound of rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6OhIZODLDs

his form of happiness is not universal. not
everyone wants to be a farmer. some people find
their happiness in discovery or in other artistic
ways.

The Calvinist "work-ethic" can be over come.


no matter what it doesn't get us into space
before lights out.

Relax, your descendants may yet be able to transport to the star of
their choice, and tomorrow's science will indeed look like today's magic.


which is a nice way to go for some, but others like
to engineer and design and tinker. why is the way
of the tinker outlawed in nature?

It is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_cognition#Tool_and_weapon_use

I doubt that people could be prevented from tinkering whether it's
crating and transporting fire, or making a sharp edge, or peering over
the edge of the Standard Model to see what else is out there.

yep, so he's not so wise after all?

We call it diversity. Life doesn't give me meaning. I give meaning to
life. YMMV

one of his claims in the book of his i just
re-read (natural farming methods) was that the
earth could support 60 times the population
(around 5 billion when he wrote) if it would
eat grains and vegetables. can you imagine our
world of 300 billion people? even if you strip
things down to very basic support for water and
calories and force everyone under ground i still
don't think the earth can support that many of
us and still have wild areas. already we see
limits based upon fresh water availability for
the 7 billion and the future is looking very
interesting already just at this level of
ecosystem disruption and exploitation...


yes, i know that only so much can be changed at a
time if nature is to continue in some forms and still
be able to function. i'm not talking about obliterating
nature or any species that currently exist. i just
wonder where those concerned about nature and sustainable
agriculture can find some common ground with the makers
and designers.

I don't see a contradiction, as long as I don't have to eat their
experiments before they are proved to be safe.

while i agree with the general sentiment, previously
there were (and still are) plenty of things in the world
that are not safe to eat, yet we abide.

That's why provenance has given us a liver, but it only protects against
what already exists, not the new toxin on the block.

i'm looking forwards to the day when we know a lot
more about GMOs in food crops.

I'll take that in a good way, and not when we find out what they may
have done to us.


But what of the day when
people only exist in the conceptual reality between their ears, as
"tweakers" do, and that "consciousness" can be transferred to a chip
(solid state drive) in a mechanical, inorganic, ageless being. The day
that humanity leaves nature behind.

Then we can talk about whether life is worth saving.

enough people would argue it is no longer life
anyways (the current ancients complain that their
children don't have much of a life as it is and
i'm ancient enough that i see their point).

The way I heard it is that there are hieroglyphics on the pyramids that
say that the world is going to hell in a hand basket, and it is proven
by the behavior of the young.


anyways, those are the thoughts of today...

in other news, got some of the turnip seeds and
buckwheat seeds scattered and watered in. starting
also to get tomatoes turning color. the weather this
week is forecast sunny, sunny, sunny and getting
warmer. so we'll have a chance of it. will have
to water.

The squash has arrived in all its glory. One zucca, and one crookneck
are producing all we can eat, and the zuchs haven't started yet. The
cucumbers and lettuce are starting to hit their pace. We have tomatoes
most of the week, but it's only the nose of the camel. The peppers have
been sporadic, but now the heat is on us again, after a 6 week departure.
Our weather guesser keeps forecasting 80s F, and we keep getting 90s F.

funny. we might hit 90 next week.

So are we, but if the weather gueser is true to form, it will closer to
100F.

our own bit of humour is that we have cherry tomatoes
that are yellow to golden colored, i've been waiting for
them to get red... that is what happens when you plant
mystery tomato plants. we sure don't need six cherry
tomato plants (for two people). they will go into the
mix when canning juice for sure, and salsa if we make
any this season.


Work starts in about 2 weeks, and I'm hustling to finish up my projects.

What a Pollyanna I am. Work starts Tue. at 9AM. So many projects still
to finish. I hope they have the AC cranked up.

don't freak out! deep breaths, in, out, slowly,
there ya go...

In this heat, it is more like panting ;O) The peppers are loving it
though.


The thunder from the YouTube video posted above reminds me that it's too
bad those inorganic beings of the future aren't here yet. Chili beans
for dinner tonight, with the usual reaction products expected tomorrow.
;O)

simulations are often a necessary step in understanding
any suitably complex system.

Prediction confirmed;O)


"To forget how to dig the earth and to tend the soil is to forget
ourselves."
- Mahatma Gandhi

To be fair, he did say "dig".

no-till wasn't popular then. there's a bit in
_Seven Years in Tibet_ which we enjoyed when they
were building the movie theatre and the people
digging would not dig any more until they found a
way to rescue each worm uncovered.

Oh, were the Jainists putting them on again? What a sense of humor.
Maybe they should have hired Confucianists.


songbird
--
Palestinian Child Detained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg

Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg