In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:
...
Ah yes, in that great rising up morning, bye and bye, when we know
everything, then nothing will be too hard for humanity to fix. It
will
be wonderful.

In the meantime, we walk in the dark, barking our shins on coffee
tables, and running into walls.

...

well then tell me,

Try and stop me ;O)

har!


what would you do knowing that in
some number of years the planet earth, the sun and most
of the local system will be gone or uninhabitable?

Planning ahead is a good thing, but looking out some 5 billion years
might be pushing the envelope some.

yes, but perhaps it's not 5 billion years ahead
when we face a planet busting asteriod that we
can't detect or dodge or the next ice-age (but
perhaps global warming will be good for something
after all)...

so you're answer so far is "do nothing" too?

You taking lessons from tx.guns now? They love to tell you that you said
something (that you didn't), and then disprove it in they own,
inimitable, logic free fashion.

when you've had two chances to answer a
direct question and wander around it yet
again?

You've projected a self-serving answer into a question that on its merit
is, at best, a rhetorical question. Bottom feeders will also tell you
that a smile is implied consent. Debating the point while your being
raped seems, somehow, pointless.

You want a straight answer to your silly question? (And the peanut
gallery moans.) The best thing we can do about the Sun going to a red
giant in 5 BILLION YEARS is to stay alive for the event. That represents
staying alive for 2,500 times longer than our Family, Hominidea, or
25,000 times longer than our species, Homo sapiens, has existed.

As you say, I'm happy playing in the mud, but bends in the road have
always held a fascination for me.

Western science lost a 1000 years with the fall of Rome. Given the
increase in information, I would expect our species to be doing some
impressive manipulation of space and time within a couple of hundred
years, IF baser human instincts like greed can be reined in. Our
greatest threat is from our selves. Ever see that experiment where they
put a couple of rats in a large cage, and then let nature take its
course? Over population drove the rats crazy. Some went catatonic. Some
chewed on themselves, and most just became aggressive.

Ice Age canceling Dante's Inferno? Let's look at the science.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...culation-may-h
ave-released-co2-at-end-of-ice-ages
At the end of each ice age, the ocean exhales carbon dioxide. Scientists
believe this explains the difference in atmospheric CO2 concentrations
between

ice ages, which have lower concentrations of carbon dioxide, and

warmer, more CO2-saturated periods like the one we're living in now.
-----

I'm sure you know that even if we stop burning fossil fuel now, it will
take some hundreds of years, with present technology, to return to 390
ppm CO2.
-----

A comet collision, a MASSIVE volcanic eruption, or a nuclear war could
throw enough particulate matter high enough into the atmosphere to block
the sun, perhaps for decades, and give us an ice age, and there would
also be human suffering on an unimaginable scale.

What do you see as triggering this joyous convergence of Ice Age/Inferno?




Seems that's where you'd be going after saying that perhaps global
warming will be good for something. I doubt that it will be good for the
starving, homeless refugees.

if an ice-age started in the next 30 years?
if the one offset the other?

perhaps there will not be the disruption and
refugees?

if we get hit by the cosmic/comet lotto the
whole exercise may become rather moot.

Yes, with a bang or a whimper, in fire or in ice, we all die, some,
damned, inconvenient day.

You may get hit in the cross walk. There are no guarantees, the best you
can do is to minimize risk, which we aren't doing.

On a daily basis, the best I can do for the world is to keep a few
hundred sq. ft. of soil alive, buy organic, buy locally, and try to find
a politician who isn't a corporation whore to vote for.


What are you going to do in a few years when you're gone, or non-viable?
(I'll sign a petition, if you like. ;O)

if you like signing petitions and putting some
action behind it try the one at the National
Geographic website for restoring water
flow to the Colorado River Delta. also, Sandra
Postel and others have plenty of interesting
articles/reading at the Water Currents section.

I see being facetious with you is a lost cause. Petitions are are near
worthless. If you're not out in the street making a nuisance of
yourself, nothing will happen. Beat those pots, and block those
intersections.

You want to kill Arizona's golf courses? TERRORIST!
It's a job killer.

if the golf courses were supplied with recycled
water and if they didn't use *cides i wouldn't say
much about them. better yet, if they were mowed
with sheep and green energy lawn mowers, then my
opposition goes down even further. i'm no big fan
of dead spaces and wasted water or energy, but in
contrast that green space may be less negative
impact on an area than leaving it as pavement,
parking lot or bare roof tops. if we could take
advantage of that green space (in the roughs and
the other edges) to provide habitat for bees and
other wildlife then we might actually gain some
level beyond what is liable to happen in an
otherwise arid region. take it up another notch
to using the space as a provider of green manure,
fodder, fruits, veggies and open to the poor for
free then you've got a bit more of my support.

Do you know what the temp is today in Phoenix? 107F. What grows well in
100F+ heat, bird? You gonna give the sheep T-shirts and caps to wear?

The area also sucks up fossil-fuel-made electricity for AC. There are
better uses for Colorado River water, and Global Warming coal fires. Use
the resources sensibly and return Phoenix to the "snow birds".


the bad news:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...o-river-drough
t-lake-powell-mead-water-scarcity/
Freshwater sources around the world have been used at rates faster than
they can replenish themselves. Pipelines for freshwater from Canada or
Greenland make more sense than KeystoneXL.


and some good news:

http://environment.nationalgeographi...er/l/lessons-f
rom-the-field-rainwater-harvesting-in-hiware-bazaar--india/

Rationing may make sense to you or me, but Capitalism wants to turn
water into a commodity, i.e. you get what you can afford. Can't afford
it it? Tough!

Watch the Guardians of Privilege come out to fight this.


as for me, not sure yet, the worms and other
soil critters get to digest me, beyond that i'm
not decided yet because a lot depends upon if i
stay here or move someplace else. the older i
get the more likely i'm not going to have the
energy to start all over again from scratch, but
that is what i would really like to do.

I'll probably be moving soon too. I hate to leave this hill, but we're
getting too old to live on a slope. Living on the flat makes so many
things easier.

i hope you can find a good place to be.

We won't go far. We can go to the boonies, if need be. Back roads aren't
as bad as the freeways around here.


do you think that we are stuck on this planet forever
without recourse?

The trouble with going away is where ever you go, there you are.

i've always been happy with my own company.


I've never really felt "stuck" on this planet, even if there is no way
for me to walk home.

i don't feel stuck, but we are near the bottom of
a deep gravity well which costs a lot to escape.
it may not be stuck, but it's darned close if we
have to get away quick.

the question to be answered at present is if
humans can transfer enough of our environment to
another closed system (space-ship, colony on the
moon, mars, or asteroid) so that it can be self-
sustaining. if we cannot figure that out then we
are stuck or we must change to a different form which
does not require such an extensive support
environment.

When you consider how much we (Homidea) have changed in the last 2
million years, if we are still around when the Sun goes "red giant" I'd
be surprised if we recognized our descendants.

my guess is we'll have split into thousands of
new variants by then. some recognisable and others
not.

Mammals didn't really get going until after the Chicxulub event, some 66
million years ago. Look how much mammals have changed to take advantage
of the empty niches that the dinosaurs left.


Mr. Fukuoka and his natural farming would say that
we are not meant to know nature, that science is
useless, that nature is perfect, etc. to be happy is
to be a farmer and doing as little as possible.

Mr. Fukuoka is a wise man. You have your family and friends with
barbecues, and cheating at cards afterwards, on the week-ends. There are
the plants, and animals to know, and the smell that comes after the
rain, the flowers of spring, tending the garden, a cooling swim on a hot
day, stars to look at, the colors of harvest, the migrating geese, the
sound of rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6OhIZODLDs

his form of happiness is not universal. not
everyone wants to be a farmer. some people find
their happiness in discovery or in other artistic
ways.

The Calvinist "work-ethic" can be over come.

Calvinist or Protestant?
All Cavinists are Protestant. I'm not sure if all Protestants are
Calvinist. (I lost interest.) But yes, it normally is cast as the
"Protestant Work Ethic". The belief that if your work was successful,
then you were one of God's chosen. Made most famous by the sociologist
Max Weber in his seminal work,"The Protestant Work Ethic, and the Spirit
of Capitalism".

Calvinism is perfect for those who want to suffer stoically, and
contemptuously.

If you haven't seen it, get Babbette's Feast". It says it all. A
wonderful movie.


i've actually done a decent job of it myself.
at a fairly young age i decided i wanted off the
common treadmill and made consistent choices
after that to get there. i made the leap off
at age 33.5


no matter what it doesn't get us into space
before lights out.

Relax, your descendants may yet be able to transport to the star of
their choice, and tomorrow's science will indeed look like today's magic.

no decendents of me. i'm a genetic dead end.
If more people had that attitude, there would be more hope for humanity.
As it is, it looks like the plutocrates are herding us towards lemming's
leap. I hope you're enjoying the trip, because I think that is all that
there is to it.



which is a nice way to go for some, but others like
to engineer and design and tinker. why is the way
of the tinker outlawed in nature?

It is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_cognition#Tool_and_weapon_use

I doubt that people could be prevented from tinkering whether it's
crating and transporting fire, or making a sharp edge, or peering over
the edge of the Standard Model to see what else is out there.

yep, so he's not so wise after all?

We call it diversity. Life doesn't give me meaning. I give meaning to
life. YMMV

like many i would like to think that i provide
meaning too, but a hundred years from now the
likelyhood of being remembered or understood is
faint. so i don't get a big head.

Leave Mayayana to the messiahs. Hinayana is all I can deal with.



one of his claims in the book of his i just
re-read (natural farming methods) was that the
earth could support 60 times the population
(around 5 billion when he wrote) if it would
eat grains and vegetables. can you imagine our
world of 300 billion people? even if you strip
things down to very basic support for water and
calories and force everyone under ground i still
don't think the earth can support that many of
us and still have wild areas. already we see
limits based upon fresh water availability for
the 7 billion and the future is looking very
interesting already just at this level of
ecosystem disruption and exploitation...

Let ye among you without typos cast the first stone.



yes, i know that only so much can be changed at a
time if nature is to continue in some forms and still
be able to function. i'm not talking about obliterating
nature or any species that currently exist. i just
wonder where those concerned about nature and sustainable
agriculture can find some common ground with the makers
and designers.

I don't see a contradiction, as long as I don't have to eat their
experiments before they are proved to be safe.

while i agree with the general sentiment, previously
there were (and still are) plenty of things in the world
that are not safe to eat, yet we abide.

That's why provenance has given us a liver, but it only protects against
what already exists, not the new toxin on the block.

always a good idea to let someone else go
first. "yeah, you eat all those GMOs you
want and i'll try to avoid them and keep an
eye peeled for toxic effects in you and your
children."

Too much enthusiasm. I would never recommend for someone to be a guinea
pig. If there is a problem, I trust the government that as been
encouraging us to spend our money to be the test animals for GMO feeding
studies, will step in and offer assistance to those who took their
advice.


i'm looking forwards to the day when we know a lot
more about GMOs in food crops.

I'll take that in a good way, and not when we find out what they may
have done to us.

yes, i sure hope it works out ok, that we've not
crossed some point of no return.


But what of the day when
people only exist in the conceptual reality between their ears, as
"tweakers" do, and that "consciousness" can be transferred to a chip
(solid state drive) in a mechanical, inorganic, ageless being. The day
that humanity leaves nature behind.

Then we can talk about whether life is worth saving.

enough people would argue it is no longer life
anyways (the current ancients complain that their
children don't have much of a life as it is and
i'm ancient enough that i see their point).

The way I heard it is that there are hieroglyphics on the pyramids that
say that the world is going to hell in a hand basket, and it is proven
by the behavior of the young.

haha, that would be funny indeed.


anyways, those are the thoughts of today...

in other news, got some of the turnip seeds and
buckwheat seeds scattered and watered in. starting
also to get tomatoes turning color. the weather this
week is forecast sunny, sunny, sunny and getting
warmer. so we'll have a chance of it. will have
to water.

The squash has arrived in all its glory. One zucca, and one crookneck
are producing all we can eat, and the zuchs haven't started yet. The
cucumbers and lettuce are starting to hit their pace. We have tomatoes
most of the week, but it's only the nose of the camel. The peppers have
been sporadic, but now the heat is on us again, after a 6 week
departure.
Our weather guesser keeps forecasting 80s F, and we keep getting 90s F.

funny. we might hit 90 next week.

So are we, but if the weather gueser is true to form, it will closer to
100F.

today was a prime example. forecast to go into the
mid 80s, but it didn't make it to 80. still the
sunshine is appreciated. gotta water some bit every
day to keep everything happy. better to spread it
out so that we don't have to draw on the well so
heavily at any one time.


our own bit of humour is that we have cherry tomatoes
that are yellow to golden colored, i've been waiting for
them to get red... that is what happens when you plant
mystery tomato plants. we sure don't need six cherry
tomato plants (for two people). they will go into the
mix when canning juice for sure, and salsa if we make
any this season.


Work starts in about 2 weeks, and I'm hustling to finish up my projects.

What a Pollyanna I am. Work starts Tue. at 9AM. So many projects still
to finish. I hope they have the AC cranked up.

get your pipettes ready!

They were calibrated 2 weeks ago. We start of with juice samples, which
is pretty basic, pH, Total Acidty (TA), sugar (by refractometer), and
the accursed potassium. Fun starts when we have wine, AND juice samples.
This is the nobody leaves until all the work is done stage. When
fermentation is over, it quickly becomes "no overtime".


don't freak out! deep breaths, in, out, slowly,
there ya go...

In this heat, it is more like panting ;O) The peppers are loving it
though.

yes, the peppers are coming along well here too.

finally was able to pick about 10lbs of tomatoes
today. some BER in the smaller romas that were
developing about a month ago in that heat wave we
had. this round of heat there is much more cover
and mulch to help.

Most of our tomatoes are still holding back, but we are close.


The thunder from the YouTube video posted above reminds me that it's too
bad those inorganic beings of the future aren't here yet. Chili beans
for dinner tonight, with the usual reaction products expected tomorrow.
;O)

simulations are often a necessary step in understanding
any suitably complex system.

Prediction confirmed;O)

my condolences to all affected.

The survivor thank you for your wishes.


ever since we started growing more dry beans
i've gradually increased fiber and while it has
special moments of regret the overall improvement
is well worth it.


"To forget how to dig the earth and to tend the soil is to forget
ourselves."
- Mahatma Gandhi

To be fair, he did say "dig".

i can dig it.
Mahatma dug it.



no-till wasn't popular then. there's a bit in
_Seven Years in Tibet_ which we enjoyed when they
were building the movie theatre and the people
digging would not dig any more until they found a
way to rescue each worm uncovered.

Oh, were the Jainists putting them on again? What a sense of humor.
Maybe they should have hired Confucianists.

just a movie, but amusing anyways as it happened
we first watched it when i was starting with the
small scale worm farm.


songbird

Probably won't be back 'till the week-end.

Try not to get into trouble without me.
--
Palestinian Child Detained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg

Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg