On 07/09/2013 14:13, Baz wrote:
(Nick Maclaren) wrote in
:

In article ,
David Hill wrote:

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to
sterilize the jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in
winemaking sterilization) would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

No, they wouldn't. Not even remotely.

That combination kills things like acetobacter, lactobacter etc.,
few of which sporulate. If you are going to store non-acid foods
anaerobically, you need to either kill some very tough spores or
prevent them from growing. That is why salting, smoking etc. were
and are used to preserve such foods.

I am sure that in the beginning Baz said he was going to bottle fruit
and veg.
Where have you got this obsessive idea that he is going to bottle fish
and meat?
For fruit I've used a combination of Sodium Metabisulphite and boiling
water to clean the jars, as I do for Jam, just has foul vapour.

I have not, but you seem to have an obsessive delusion that all
vegetables are high in acid. Since you seem to have trouble with
this:

MOST VEGETABLES DO NOT CONTAIN ENOUGH ACID TO STOP CLOSTRIDIUM
BOTULINUM FROM GROWING.

MOST FRUITS DO, HOWEVER, AND *T*H*E*R*F*O*R*E* EXPERIENCE WITH
FRUIT IS *I*R*R*E*L*E*V*A*N*T*.

THE RISK OF BOTULISM FROM BOTTLING VEGETABLES IS VERY LOW.

BUT THE RISK OF DEATH IS *V*E*R*Y* HIGH IF IT DOES HAPPEN.

IT IS PROBABLY *H*I*G*H*E*R* THAN FOR MEAT AND FISH, FOR
SEVERAL REASONS.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


Capitals are regarded as shouting.
Perhaps you can set your keyboard to whispering.
Only joking.

But can I bottle.........
Joking again.

He is *D*E*A*D*L*Y* serious. If you get the pH wrong then herbs or
garlic in oil can be an almost perfect way to create the right anaerobic
conditions that allow any botulinum free reign to grow. Any vegetables
with even slight soil contaminiation may be a vector.

It is one of those recent DIY grow your own "health food" home bottling
fads that has caused several nasty incidents. Fatalities are ~50% if not
treated quickly and about 8% with early diagnosis and treatment.

US where home canning is more popular have more of a problem with it
than we do in the UK. Acidic environments like preserved fruit are
fairly safe. Although nothing is guaranteed branded products that you
would expect to be safe on multiple levels have failed in the past eg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15712910

(I was looking for the one on home preservation and pH guidelines)

US sites have the most detailed information, but I do recall a home
garlic/chilli oil one in the UK not so long ago.

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html

Surprisingly over there asparagus is the main culprit. I reckon it is
sacrilege not to eat them poached immediately fresh out of the ground!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown