On 2013-11-08 15:10:16 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

On 07/11/2013 23:27, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-07 19:41:29 +0000, Roger Tonkin said:

Well Sacha, you certainly made this group come to life
today, revealing that there are many more lurkers(like
me) out there that only contribute occasionally.

I did subscribe a few weeks ago to a DIY group out of
curiousity (DIY is really a pet hate of mine - I just
get forced to do it!). I gave up after about a week,
as it was running at around 200 posts a day!

KEEP URG GOING I SAY

What seems to have got lost in all the brouhaha is that my original
idea was to keep urg going by suggesting people look for new topics to
discuss.

Well, maybe it's time to comment now that the blog appearance has been
dissected to oblivion. But a general comment on its content first.

I read the blog, and the trouble is that it was too long as it was
really a rant. Short rants are fine; long rants tend to make you turn
off half-way through. And it seemed to want to cover several subjects.
In then end I had trouble seeing the wood for the trees. Was it for or
against GW? Was it about getting children interested? Was it about
supporting nurseries and growers? Did it want more or less detail in GW
("If you are discussing the Chelsea Chop, go into it properly and talk
about the whole process or it makes no sense and it will go wrong", but
"And please never let any of us have to endure 6 minutes of how to jet
wash a path ever again!!". Why not? it's as much a part of gardening
as anything else done in that outside space. And, I don't remember it
being covered before in GW or urg. So there you are, a new subject!).

That's why I almost never read blogs. They are just someone else's
ideas on what I should be doing or thinking about. It's just a "When
I want your opinion I'll give it to you" statement.

I was interested in the point about getting children into gardening. I
suppose that some children may be interested, but I would guess that
children have a few other interests (other than the glass-faced tap and
drag machine). Other than planting a daffodil bulb, and getting a
runner bean seed to sprout, I can't remember doing anything relating to
plants when I was of primary school age. But then I was living in a
city in a house with a very small back-yard garden. I think I tried
growing some runner beans outside, but don't remember the outcome. But
there most certainly weren't the distractions then that kids have
today. We tended then to make (ie physically construct) our own
entertainment. Can you see /any/ kids doing that today? Their
entertainment comes ready-packed. Could they focus on one thing for
more than 20 minutes, unless it's a film or video game? It's probably
why sites like twitter are so successful - you only need a span of
attention of a few seconds, and that is in line with what most user's
limit is. The problem is that you can create anything in the virtual
world so easily with the minimum of effort. That's the attraction.

Look at the people walking round any NGS garden. They are all of, or
near, retirement age. If you see anyone below 50 they stand out like a
sort thumb. I must have been to over 50 gardens in the last 2 or 3
years, and even at the weekends never saw a child. But I didn't expect
to. I am not sure about the statement "...kids love to garden and are
naturals as they don't worry it might not work." How many kids love to
garden? A small minority I expect - probably less than a fraction of a
percent at best. The may seem to like gardening at school, but what
would be the alternative to the gardening hour? And how many kids have
the facilities to garden today, as house plots get smaller and smaller,
and the gardens proportionally more so, as far as I can see.

It would be interesting to see when the urg regular posters - and even
some or the lurkers - started gardening. With me, an interest in
plants started with a present by a friend of a couple of cacti, and I
was near 30 at the time. It must have been another 5 years before I
started gardening in earnest.

So I don't think that there is much point in spending a lot of time
trying to get children involved in gardening. Those who are interested
will take it up and stay interested. Those who aren't will either
never take it up, or might later in life. Only then might they become
urglers.

Rant over. Or should that be my #Shoutyhalfhour (whatever the # means)
over?! Did you stop reading half-way through? ;-)

There are only so many times one can be fascinated by a runner bean
failure, a lawnmower that doesn't, or mildew on Michaelmas daisies.
It's hardly any wonder numbers have dwindled to the downright pitiful.

I am sure that you actually mean "a select few"...

So please delurk, all you present lurkers and put in your two pennorth!

May I qualify that? Please add your comments, but only if you have
something to say. There are already enough posters here who waffle on
and on. Don't argue - I write as one with great experience!

In the immortal words of Mandy R-D "I would say this, wouldn't I" but
in fact that blog has actually achieved what I was getting at. You've
read it and discussed it. Even if you didn't like the format, as some
didn't, you didn't just dismiss out out of hand and you did actually
have something to say about it. That was the whole idea, so thank you
for catching on!
Just to take the children aspect of it, one of the reasons that comes
up often among professional gardeners/nurserymen, is the lack of young
people going into the industry AND one of the reasons given is pretty
much related to what you said about making your own entertainment when
young. Country children used to spend a lot of time outside so almost
learned a certain amount by default. And city children's parents often
used to grow some veg in a very small plot or have an allotment, so the
concept of planting something and watching it grow was learned early
on. Children may have moved away from it but then returned in later
years when they had families of their own. Now, entertainment and any
leisure activities seem to come mostly pre-packaged and it's said to be
hard to prise the teenagers off the sofa!

As to when urglers first started gardening, I hope you'll start another
thread on that. I must admit a couple of cactus had never entered my
life to get me interested, so I wouldn't have thought of that!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon