Sugar Maple age
 

The tree is 60 inches in diameter at the 5 foot level, and is in a
residential front yard in Nashville TN. There was a Silver Maple that
shaded it somewhat, but that went down a few years ago in a tornado. By
the chart used from
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/leaf/HowOld.html

I figure if it was in a forest it would be 95 years old. How would I
figure age in a non forest area?

Kate

PS - Thanks for the great book recommendations - I'm about half way
through Forest Primeval and I'm seeing the woods I frequent in a totally
new light! (And I love my Textbook of Dendrology!)

Sugar Maple age
 

Kate

Your sugar maple would have an estimated age of 60" x 5 = 300 years in a
non-forested environment. There are to many factors that could affect the
growth rate in a forested situation.

Vince

"kate" wrote in message
...
The tree is 60 inches in diameter at the 5 foot level, and is in a
residential front yard in Nashville TN. There was a Silver Maple that
shaded it somewhat, but that went down a few years ago in a tornado. By
the chart used from
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/leaf/HowOld.html

I figure if it was in a forest it would be 95 years old. How would I
figure age in a non forest area?

Kate

PS - Thanks for the great book recommendations - I'm about half way
through Forest Primeval and I'm seeing the woods I frequent in a totally
new light! (And I love my Textbook of Dendrology!)

Sugar Maple age
 

Wouldn't it be 60" divided by 3.14 x 5 = 95.55?

Isn't there a fairly good way to estimate a tree's age (without killing
it, that is?) What other ways are there for knowing when a tree has
reached it's maturity? (For instance, does it stop getting new growth?)

Kate

Vincent Chebetar wrote:

Kate

Your sugar maple would have an estimated age of 60" x 5 = 300 years in a
non-forested environment. There are to many factors that could affect the
growth rate in a forested situation.

Vince

"kate" wrote in message
...
The tree is 60 inches in diameter at the 5 foot level, and is in a
residential front yard in Nashville TN. There was a Silver Maple that
shaded it somewhat, but that went down a few years ago in a tornado. By
the chart used from
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/leaf/HowOld.html

I figure if it was in a forest it would be 95 years old. How would I
figure age in a non forest area?

Kate

PS - Thanks for the great book recommendations - I'm about half way
through Forest Primeval and I'm seeing the woods I frequent in a totally
new light! (And I love my Textbook of Dendrology!)

Sugar Maple age
 

kate wrote in message ...
Wouldn't it be 60" divided by 3.14 x 5 = 95.55?

Isn't there a fairly good way to estimate a tree's age (without killing
it, that is?) What other ways are there for knowing when a tree has
reached it's maturity? (For instance, does it stop getting new growth?)

Kate

See if you can borrow a nice sharp "increment borer". It's a device
for taking a small core sample of the tree. Boring into hardwoods
isn't very fun and counting the rings can also be difficult on an old
tree. It leaves a tiny hole, which some foresters plug back up with
the core when they're done. How bout it, guys? Any thoughts of that
practice? I worked with a former FIA plotter who claimed that it
wasn't necessarily the best thing to do, possibly inviting fungi and
diseases into the wood of the tree. I know that pines are very well
adapted to plugging the hole on their own.

Larry

Sugar Maple age
 

"Larry Harrell" wrote in message
om...
kate wrote in message ...
See if you can borrow a nice sharp "increment borer". It's a device
for taking a small core sample of the tree. Boring into hardwoods
isn't very fun and counting the rings can also be difficult on an old
tree. It leaves a tiny hole, which some foresters plug back up with
the core when they're done. How bout it, guys? Any thoughts of that
practice? I worked with a former FIA plotter who claimed that it
wasn't necessarily the best thing to do, possibly inviting fungi and
diseases into the wood of the tree. I know that pines are very well
adapted to plugging the hole on their own.

Larry

Given that she stated that the tree was 60" in dia., she would need at least a 30" long increment
borer - not too many of those around. And I certainly wouldn't want to be the one who had to core a
maple that big.
I fall in the camp of those who believe that the tree will heal better if you don't put the core back
in.

Bob Weinberger

Sugar Maple age
 

Kate

I see what you are doing. The circumference is divided by 3.1415 (Pi) to
obtain the diameter of the tree, which is then multiplied by the growth
factor to obtain an approximation of the age of the tree.

Vince

"Vincent Chebetar" wrote in message
...
Kate

Your sugar maple would have an estimated age of 60" x 5 = 300 years in a
non-forested environment. There are to many factors that could affect the
growth rate in a forested situation.

Vince

"kate" wrote in message
...
The tree is 60 inches in diameter at the 5 foot level, and is in a
residential front yard in Nashville TN. There was a Silver Maple that
shaded it somewhat, but that went down a few years ago in a tornado. By
the chart used from
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/leaf/HowOld.html

I figure if it was in a forest it would be 95 years old. How would I
figure age in a non forest area?

Kate

PS - Thanks for the great book recommendations - I'm about half way
through Forest Primeval and I'm seeing the woods I frequent in a totally
new light! (And I love my Textbook of Dendrology!)

Sugar Maple age
 

See if you can borrow a nice sharp "increment borer".

I don't think an increment borer would work too well as sugar maple is a
diffuse porus wood and the rings wouldn't show up too well for counting.

Sugar Maple age
 

Vincent Chebetar wrote:

I was scratching my head about the 60 inch diameter on a 95 year old tree
myself. Thanks for clearing that up :) Wonder what the MAI is and how is
the wood quality?

Joe



Kate

I see what you are doing. The circumference is divided by 3.1415 (Pi) to
obtain the diameter of the tree, which is then multiplied by the growth
factor to obtain an approximation of the age of the tree.

Vince

"Vincent Chebetar" wrote in message
...
Kate

Your sugar maple would have an estimated age of 60" x 5 = 300 years in a
non-forested environment. There are to many factors that could affect
the growth rate in a forested situation.

Vince

"kate" wrote in message
...
The tree is 60 inches in diameter at the 5 foot level, and is in a
residential front yard in Nashville TN. There was a Silver Maple that
shaded it somewhat, but that went down a few years ago in a tornado. By
the chart used from
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/leaf/HowOld.html

I figure if it was in a forest it would be 95 years old. How would I
figure age in a non forest area?

Kate

PS - Thanks for the great book recommendations - I'm about half way
through Forest Primeval and I'm seeing the woods I frequent in a
totally new light! (And I love my Textbook of Dendrology!)

Sugar Maple age
 

(Larry Harrell) writes:

See if you can borrow a nice sharp "increment borer". It's a device
for taking a small core sample of the tree. Boring into hardwoods
isn't very fun and counting the rings can also be difficult on an old
tree. It leaves a tiny hole, which some foresters plug back up with
the core when they're done. How bout it, guys? Any thoughts of that
practice? I worked with a former FIA plotter who claimed that it
wasn't necessarily the best thing to do, possibly inviting fungi and
diseases into the wood of the tree. I know that pines are very well
adapted to plugging the hole on their own.

This is a sugar maple, also well adapted to plugging its own holes. If
boring holes in them hurt sugar maples, my pancakes would be very sad.

I would just plug the surface, like any other hole.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Sugar Maple age
 

Oops - sorry. Math is not my strong suit. Does this mean the diameter is
19.11" if the circumference (tape measure around the truck) is 60"?

Kate

Vincent Chebetar wrote:

Kate

I see what you are doing. The circumference is divided by 3.1415 (Pi) to
obtain the diameter of the tree, which is then multiplied by the growth
factor to obtain an approximation of the age of the tree.

Vince

"Vincent Chebetar" wrote in message
...
Kate

Your sugar maple would have an estimated age of 60" x 5 = 300 years in a
non-forested environment. There are to many factors that could affect the
growth rate in a forested situation.

Vince

"kate" wrote in message
...
The tree is 60 inches in diameter at the 5 foot level, and is in a
residential front yard in Nashville TN. There was a Silver Maple that
shaded it somewhat, but that went down a few years ago in a tornado. By
the chart used from
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/leaf/HowOld.html

I figure if it was in a forest it would be 95 years old. How would I
figure age in a non forest area?

Kate

PS - Thanks for the great book recommendations - I'm about half way
through Forest Primeval and I'm seeing the woods I frequent in a totally
new light! (And I love my Textbook of Dendrology!)

Sugar Maple age
 

What's "MAI?"

Kate

Joe Shmoe wrote:

Vincent Chebetar wrote:

I was scratching my head about the 60 inch diameter on a 95 year old tree
myself. Thanks for clearing that up :) Wonder what the MAI is and how is
the wood quality?

Joe

Kate

I see what you are doing. The circumference is divided by 3.1415 (Pi) to
obtain the diameter of the tree, which is then multiplied by the growth
factor to obtain an approximation of the age of the tree.

Vince

"Vincent Chebetar" wrote in message
...
Kate

Your sugar maple would have an estimated age of 60" x 5 = 300 years in a
non-forested environment. There are to many factors that could affect
the growth rate in a forested situation.

Vince

"kate" wrote in message
...
The tree is 60 inches in diameter at the 5 foot level, and is in a
residential front yard in Nashville TN. There was a Silver Maple that
shaded it somewhat, but that went down a few years ago in a tornado. By
the chart used from
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/leaf/HowOld.html

I figure if it was in a forest it would be 95 years old. How would I
figure age in a non forest area?

Kate

PS - Thanks for the great book recommendations - I'm about half way
through Forest Primeval and I'm seeing the woods I frequent in a
totally new light! (And I love my Textbook of Dendrology!)

Sugar Maple age
 

(Vincent Chebetar) writes:

Your sugar maple would have an estimated age of 60" x 5 = 300 years in a
non-forested environment. There are to many factors that could affect the
growth rate in a forested situation.

No kidding! Sugar maples grow that slowly? I would expect 300 years out
of a quercus, but not an acer.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Sugar Maple age
 

Larry Harrell wrote:

kate wrote in message ...
Wouldn't it be 60" divided by 3.14 x 5 = 95.55?

Isn't there a fairly good way to estimate a tree's age (without killing
it, that is?) What other ways are there for knowing when a tree has
reached it's maturity? (For instance, does it stop getting new growth?)

Kate

See if you can borrow a nice sharp "increment borer". It's a device
for taking a small core sample of the tree. Boring into hardwoods
isn't very fun and counting the rings can also be difficult on an old
tree. It leaves a tiny hole, which some foresters plug back up with
the core when they're done. How bout it, guys? Any thoughts of that
practice? I worked with a former FIA plotter who claimed that it
wasn't necessarily the best thing to do, possibly inviting fungi and
diseases into the wood of the tree. I know that pines are very well
adapted to plugging the hole on their own.

Is that pretty much how it's done, then? My curiousity stemmed from the
local electric company being on a tree trimming binge and concern that
they don't hack this one to bits as it's the only large old tree in the
yard. One thing led to another and here I am wondering how old it is. :)

Kate

Sugar Maple age
 

While looking for 75 year old blazes I once found 16 inch diameter maples in
rocky terrain that were over 100 years old ( found my survey evidence), and
, within a mile, a 45 inch maple that was less than 60 years old. It grew in
better soil and with less surrounding tress. It all depends upon soil,
water, and sun, I suppose.


--
.................................................. .......................
Paddle Slowly : The ride is over soon enough.
.................................................. .......................


"kate" wrote in message
...
The tree is 60 inches in diameter at the 5 foot level, and is in a
residential front yard in Nashville TN. There was a Silver Maple that
shaded it somewhat, but that went down a few years ago in a tornado. By
the chart used from
)

Sugar Maple age
 

The truth about finding a sugar maple age.

1. That age equation below will not work for two major reasons. 1. It
assumes that the trunk of a tree is perfectly cylindrical. Of course, no
tree trunk that I have ever seen is a perfect circle, although some species
on some
sites come close. Sugar maple very seldomly comes close. 2. The growth
rate is not correct. Sugar maples grow differently throughout their range.
Sugar maples grow anywhere from Canada (Northern Ontario) to Georgia in some
of the better sites of the blue ridge mtns. They can possess increments of
anywhere from 1/16" (1/8" growth in diameter per year) to 1/4" (1/2"
diameter growth per year) increments, depending on their location.

2. Some advice below this post has suggested that diffuse porous (wood
without vessels) wood is not easily aged by taking a increment sample with a
increment borer. This has some validity to it. It's sometimes tough.
Personally, I have tried to get the age of sugar maples, and it is my
opinion that it makes a significant difference what area you are in and what
season it is (because sugar maples produce lots of sap in spring-early
summer). Using an increment borer, I would suggest that it would be best in
fall to make the core and get some increment bore dye from forestry
suppliers (I'd suggest Ben Meadows, but they don't sell it anymore)
www.forestry-suppliers.com, and dye the increment with the chemical. This
chemical will dye certain parts of the wood (the lignin) a particular color
while it does not stick to the other parts of the wood, therefore making
summer wood (the large part of the ring) contrast with the winter wood (the
smaller part of the ring) so that the rings can easily be seen.

3. Boring an increment will very likely not do damage to the tree as long
as you keep your increment borer clean (e.g. treat it with a bleach solution
to kill any pathenogens) prior to boring the hole. If you are really
concerned about it, paint a little of this same bleach solution along where
the cambium meets the wood. Of course the only area where fungi can attack
a tree is the growing section of the tree (the cambium), the interior wood
is dead. There are other "stains" and such that may discolor or decay the
wood, but in general, as long as there is enough structural integrity in the
dead wood to support the tree and the living tissue is healthy, the tree
will continue to grow (although more slowly at this size).

4. What I would suggest is taking a small increment of maybe 4" or so,
measure it with a tape measure, count the rings in that 4" to develop an
average rings per inch ratio and multiply that number times the diameter.
Use a diameter tape or the average of three ways around the trunk using a
diameter caliper to get the diameter figure. Using this "sampling"
approach, you will have a very close estimate of how old your tree is.

5. Last considerations: Trees grow quicker in open environments early on
than they do as they get older. This must be taken into consideration to
get a closer estimate of the age. Up here in Mid-Michigan, the average
diameter growth for sugar maple is probably less than 1/8" per year (takes 8
years to put on 1 inch of diameter growth - but this is in a forested
environment). Also, it takes 8 years for the smallest seedling (cotyledon
just coming out of seed) to reach 54" height on an average site in the
Northeast.

Hope this helps you.

Good luck,
Geoff Kegerreis

To learn more about forests and forestry, browse timberline forestry
consulting at
www.timberlineforestry.com



kate wrote:

The tree is 60 inches in diameter at the 5 foot level, and is in a
residential front yard in Nashville TN. There was a Silver Maple that
shaded it somewhat, but that went down a few years ago in a tornado. By
the chart used from
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/leaf/HowOld.html

I figure if it was in a forest it would be 95 years old. How would I
figure age in a non forest area?

Kate

PS - Thanks for the great book recommendations - I'm about half way
through Forest Primeval and I'm seeing the woods I frequent in a totally
new light! (And I love my Textbook of Dendrology!)

Sugar Maple age
 

Stew wrote:

While looking for 75 year old blazes I once found 16 inch diameter maples in
rocky terrain that were over 100 years old ( found my survey evidence), and
, within a mile, a 45 inch maple that was less than 60 years old. It grew in
better soil and with less surrounding tress. It all depends upon soil,
water, and sun, I suppose.

Yes, I realized my folly after hiking in the woods yesterday and
observing the different sizes of same type trees.

Kate

Sugar Maple age
 

Geoff Kegerreis schreef
The truth about finding a sugar maple age.
2. Some advice below this post has suggested that diffuse porous (wood without vessels) wood

+ + +

Falsehood. Diffuse porous wood has vessels that are more or less the same size throughout the growth ring.

+ + +

is not easily aged by taking a increment sample with a increment borer. This has some validity to it. It's sometimes tough. Personally, I have tried to get the age of sugar maples, and it is my opinion that it makes a significant difference what area you are in and what season it is (because sugar maples produce lots of sap in spring-early summer). Using an increment borer, I would suggest that it would be best in fall to make the core and get some increment bore dye from forestry suppliers (I'd suggest Ben Meadows, but they don't sell it anymore) www.forestry-suppliers.com, and dye the increment with the chemical. This chemical will dye certain parts of the wood (the lignin) a particular color while it does not stick to the other parts of the wood, therefore making summer wood (the large part of the ring) contrast with the winter wood (the smaller part of the ring) so that the rings can easily be seen.

+ + +

Falsehood. There is no such thing as winterwood, since a tree does not grow in winter. There is "earlywood" and "latewood" or "springwood" and "summerwood"

+ + +

3. Boring an increment will very likely not do damage to the tree as long as you keep your increment borer clean (e.g. treat it with a bleach solution to kill any pathenogens) prior to boring the hole. If you are really concerned about it, paint a little of this same bleach solution along where the cambium meets the wood. Of course the only area where fungi can attack a tree is the growing section of the tree (the cambium), the interior wood is dead.

+ + +

Big falsehood. Fungi can attack any part of a tree. Just about the only place where a tree can mount a serious defense is the cambium. The interior wood of a tree is not necessarily dead

+ + +

There are other "stains" and such that may discolor or decay the wood, but in general, as long as there is enough structural integrity in the dead wood to support the tree and the living tissue is healthy, the tree will continue to grow (although more slowly at this size).

+ + +

The tree will continue to grow even while dying. Only when it is totally dead will growth stop. Trees can take a lot of abuse. Does not mean it is good for them

PvR

Sugar Maple age
 

For the sake of saving time, I will say that there's always a "fact
checker" in
every crowd (usually an academidiot), which keeps us honest and on
point,
but is kind of a pain-in-the ass.

For the record, "P" is correct on everything he stated below, except:

1. That wood itself IS dead, and is not alive (although there may be
something
living amongst it).

and...

2. That a tree without healthy tissue will keep growing. In fact, if a
tree has only
unhealthy tissue - it will not grow. It will die before it puts on
another year's worth of
growth.

I still stand firm on my opinion that using an increment borer is safe
for a tree and
will not likely cause damage, fungal or otherwise. I was trying to keep
this simple
and based it on memory and experiences (not always flawless). Thanks
for pointing
out my incorrect termnology and lack of specificifity, "P".

(what, am I publishing an article for forestry source or something?)
Geoff Kegerreis



P van Rijckevorsel wrote:

Geoff Kegerreis schreefThe
truth about finding a sugar maple age.2. Some advice below
this post has suggested that diffuse porous (wood without
vessels) wood

+ + +

Falsehood. Diffuse porous wood has vessels that are more or
less the same size throughout the growth ring.

+ + +

is not easily aged by taking a increment sample with a
increment borer. This has some validity to it. It's
sometimes tough. Personally, I have tried to get the age of
sugar maples, and it is my opinion that it makes a
significant difference what area you are in and what season
it is (because sugar maples produce lots of sap in
spring-early summer). Using an increment borer, I would
suggest that it would be best in fall to make the core and
get some increment bore dye from forestry suppliers (I'd
suggest Ben Meadows, but they don't sell it anymore)
www.forestry-suppliers.com, and dye the increment with the
chemical. This chemical will dye certain parts of the wood
(the lignin) a particular color while it does not stick to
the other parts of the wood, therefore making summer wood
(the large part of the ring) contrast with the winter wood
(the smaller part of the ring) so that the rings can easily
be seen.

+ + +

Falsehood. There is no such thing as winterwood, since a
tree does not grow in winter. There is "earlywood" and
"latewood" or "springwood" and "summerwood"

+ + +

3. Boring an increment will very likely not do damage to
the tree as long as you keep your increment borer clean
(e.g. treat it with a bleach solution to kill any
pathenogens) prior to boring the hole. If you are really
concerned about it, paint a little of this same bleach
solution along where the cambium meets the wood. Of course
the only area where fungi can attack a tree is the growing
section of the tree (the cambium), the interior wood is
dead.

+ + +

Big falsehood. Fungi can attack any part of a tree. Just
about the only place where a tree can mount a serious
defense is the cambium. The interior wood of a tree is not
necessarily dead

+ + +

There are other "stains" and such that may discolor or
decay the wood, but in general, as long as there is enough
structural integrity in the dead wood to support the tree
and the living tissue is healthy, the tree will continue to
grow (although more slowly at this size).

+ + +

The tree will continue to grow even while dying. Only when
it is totally dead will growth stop. Trees can take a lot of
abuse. Does not mean it is good for them

PvR

Sugar Maple age
 

Geoff Kegerreis schreef
For the sake of saving time, I will say that there's always a "fact checker"
in every crowd (usually an academidiot), which keeps us honest and on point,
but is kind of a pain-in-the ass.

For the record, "P" is correct on everything he stated below, except:
1. That wood itself IS dead, and is not alive (although there may be
something living amongst it).

+ + +
Any such pronouncement is necessarily inaccurate, you might as well say that
people are dead since several of their parts are dead (like nails and hair).
Some elements of wood die within months of being formed, others go on for
decades. It is perfectly silly to say that wood is dead as soon as some of
its elements are dead. Wood can remain part of the living system of the tree
for as long as the tree lives. Depends on the tree species. In some species
the interior wood will be dead after a tree passes a certain stage.
+ + +

and...
2. That a tree without healthy tissue will keep growing. In fact, if a
tree has only unhealthy tissue - it will not grow. It will die before it
puts on another year's worth of growth.

+ + +
It seems there is not that much difference with what I said: "The tree will
continue to grow even while dying. Only when it is totally dead will growth
stop." Trees are strongly compartementalized: look at the bristlecone pines.
+ + +

I still stand firm on my opinion that using an increment borer is safe for a
tree and will not likely cause damage, fungal or otherwise. I was trying to
keep this simple and based it on memory and experiences (not always
flawless).
Thanks for pointing out my incorrect termnology and lack of specificifity,
"P". (what, am I publishing an article for forestry source or something?)
Geoff Kegerreis

+ + +
You were proclaiming "The truth about finding a sugar maple age" and there
are always people who take such things seriously .
PvR

PS you wouldn't want to see me critizing an article for a forestry source or
something
:^)