Water restrictions and gardens
 

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 01:01:36 +0000, 0tterbot wrote:

perhaps g. sarcasm is not the best method of communication. however, you
can consider the statements still stand (if not directed to you) as some
people evidently believe these things!

Perhaps so. I agree that your statements are sound, people *do* believe
that piffle I repeated, but then the general public usually does, by
necessity fall to the lowest common denominator. One only had to look at
the people on the SBS discussion program (Insight, I think) who were on
with Di Thorley (Toowoomba mayor), gingerly sniffing the bottled water
from Singapore that was offered for tasting, and being genuinely
incredulous that it *didn't* smell like faeces, to see how stupid "people"
are.

I think Toowoomba residents missed a good opportunity, but one must not
discount the role both the local media (by refusal to use neutral and
noninflammatory terminology in its reporting) *and* the Federal Govt (by
demanding that a referendum had to be held and won in order to get Fed
funding for the project) had in the defeat of the referendum.

well of course. (anyone who wants to blame the govt for anything at all is
fine by me g)

Ahh, well I am not a govt basher per se, even though I didn't vote for
them, I do believe that a society (as a whole) gets the govt it deserves. :-)

I blame the Govt (federal) because they forced the Toowoomba council to
hold a referendum on what is essentially an infrastructure issue. I can't
recall when any level of govt in Oz was forced to go to the electorate on
such an issue. (Forgetting the importance of this issue just for a moment)
Governments of all levels are elected to make decisions on what
infrastructure needs to be built at whatever level it operates, so that
the needs of its constituents (both present and future) are met as well as
possible.

what of the responsibility of individuals though, to not be total morons
& to take some responsibility towards saving themselves (e.g. the good
burghers of toowoomba)? it's all very well to blame the tabloids - why
does nobody question what kind of person reads them & believes that
stuff, because without their audience they clearly would have no
influence..?!

Too true! One only has to look at the issue of so called- reality TV,
*someone* must be watching these bores!

However on the issue of responsibility. Well given my feelings on the
general public, I would say that the average dude and dudette were really
behind the 8-ball. If they knew they were not in possession of the facts,
where were they to turn? To the media, of course...reporting on issues is
their job after all..in this case though, the media (all of it, including
ABC and SBS as well as the Toowoomba Chronicle) let down the uninformed
average citizen badly. So badly that as a single example, the very day
after the referendum, the same outlets that had been exclusively using
such terminology as "Recycled sewage" suddenly discovered that the term
"Recycled water" was a valid description.

sigh

Charles
--
If some days are diamonds and some days are stone....
Then some days I live in a quarry!!

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"meeee" wrote in message
...
Having lived in SE Qld all my life until last year, opinions don't change
very quickly. In fact they hardly change at all. Farmer's there are still
farming, refusing to obey the new logging regulations, refusing to obey
the new dam limitations, refusing to conserve water at all, etc etc and I
don't see my generation changing the way things have been done ever since
their grandfather's first started farming australia european style. Maajor
education is needed in queensland's farming communities.

i fully concur i had not thought about queenslanders when i wrote that g
kylie

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Terryc" wrote in message
...
0tterbot wrote:

again speaking for sydney - most fresh food there is grown in the sydney
basin - it's local :-) (for now, anyway).

I think you have just supported his argument very well.

lol - i can see that :-)
kylie

Water restrictions and gardens
 

In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote:

since i got here (the country) i've really noticed what a gap there is
between city people & country people. sadly, it's the majority (city people)
who just haven't got the first idea about anything! but the onus is on
country people to stop whingeing & educate them. the two lots are entirely
interdependent, but you wouldn't know that from observing them.

What differences have you seen? I'm asking because I've had a couple of
country people tell me I'm more like a country person than a city person, and
it seems to be a compliment ;-)

What do you think the new ddrought assistance package will do? Will it
prolong unsustainable farming, or is it OK?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Charles" wrote in message
...
Ahh, well I am not a govt basher per se, even though I didn't vote for
them, I do believe that a society (as a whole) gets the govt it deserves.
:-)

ah, you are a _people_ basher ;-)

however, i must say i find your stance on that awfully unfair to people who
_didn't_ vote for govt of the day but get them anyway. (i feel sorry for
myself quite frankly).

I blame the Govt (federal) because they forced the Toowoomba council to
hold a referendum on what is essentially an infrastructure issue.

one of the things that irks me about them is they always find ways to get
their own way. let's not get started g.
kyile

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
"meeee" wrote in message
...
Having lived in SE Qld all my life until last year, opinions don't change
very quickly. In fact they hardly change at all. Farmer's there are still
farming, refusing to obey the new logging regulations, refusing to obey
the new dam limitations, refusing to conserve water at all, etc etc and I
don't see my generation changing the way things have been done ever since
their grandfather's first started farming australia european style.
Maajor education is needed in queensland's farming communities.

i fully concur i had not thought about queenslanders when i wrote that g
kylie

Lol...certain qlders

Water restrictions and gardens
 

In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city fringe
were talking about those things when I knew of dead boring and very
conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their land. They had
not only started talking about it but were also doing something about
it. It all started with dry land salinity problems anfdGod knows
farmers have been working on that problem for at least the last 15-20
years..

I think I posted about it here at the time, but we went to WA a few years ago
and drove through part of the wheat belt. I was fascinated and amused to see
contour ploughing, swaling, and even alley cropping going on -- all the
permie/greenie/hippy stuff! And a local told us that they were starting to
see an improvement, even though it looked to me that none of the techniques
had been in use very long.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Water restrictions and gardens
 

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:46:52 +0000, 0tterbot wrote:

"Charles" wrote in message
...
Ahh, well I am not a govt basher per se, even though I didn't vote for
them, I do believe that a society (as a whole) gets the govt it deserves.
:-)

ah, you are a _people_ basher ;-)

Yes, I guess I am :-) I see the great unwashed (myself included) as so
often less than they should be.

however, i must say i find your stance on that awfully unfair to people
who _didn't_ vote for govt of the day but get them anyway. (i feel sorry
for myself quite frankly).

As do I (for myself and for us all at times)

one of the things that irks me about them is they always find ways to
get their own way. let's not get started g.

No indeed, let's not get started :-) We've probably already gone too far
from the remit of this group ;-)

Charles
--
If some days are diamonds and some days are stone....
Then some days I live in a quarry!!

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city fringe
were talking about those things when I knew of dead boring and very
conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their land. They had
not only started talking about it but were also doing something about
it. It all started with dry land salinity problems anfdGod knows
farmers have been working on that problem for at least the last 15-20
years..

I think I posted about it here at the time, but we went to WA a few years
ago
and drove through part of the wheat belt. I was fascinated and amused to
see
contour ploughing, swaling, and even alley cropping going on -- all the
permie/greenie/hippy stuff! And a local told us that they were starting
to
see an improvement, even though it looked to me that none of the
techniques
had been in use very long.


That's very encouraging...at least part of australia is listening. Hopefully
it will eventually trickle over to our side of things
--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You
may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it takes to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to run water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns. I'm just
shocked that people still do these things.

Jen

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns. I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you didn't
even bother asking.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns. I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you didn't
even bother asking.


There was no question! That was a statement!

Jen

Water restrictions and gardens
 

Jen wrote:
"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it takes to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.
The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while shaving
or brushing your teeth.
A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to run water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns. I'm just
shocked that people still do these things.

Jen


I reckon he's been playing peeping tom, who ever said that. How the heck
would he know?
But its a bit ridiculous to tell the populace en masse how they should
conserve even more water, when we are doing better (as stated by the
government figures) than they had hoped.
Its a little political soap box grand standing by a public servant who
does not have any idea that saving water in a dam is going to come in
mighty handy in the future. Also we should restrict the population
migration to sustainability figures till the drought (that some people
who have little grasp of statistics tell us isn't happening) is over.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
...
meeee wrote:


In my area, people have become more water wise; the Cairns council
has us on permanent sprinkler restrictions

I haven't seen a sprinkler in use for YEARS. They're a bit horse'n'cart
these days, aren't they ?

oh hang on ... people have sprinkler SYSTEMS now, don't they ? Not as
easy to spot as a whirley-gigger attached to a hose plonked in the middle
of the lawn :)



yep, the ole sprinkler we used to run through are pretty much gone now.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

I,m very lucky up here near ballina as we have a bore, produces 5000 gallons
per hour, is there any chance of a bore where you are?

Steve

Water restrictions and gardens
 

meeee wrote:

oh hang on ... people have sprinkler SYSTEMS now, don't they ? Not as
easy to spot as a whirley-gigger attached to a hose plonked in the middle
of the lawn :)


yep, the ole sprinkler we used to run through are pretty much gone now.


I bought one of those old backward & forward sprinklers earlier this
year when we put down an acre of lawn seed. (I'm not mad about lawns
but we had to, it was one big dust bowl.) But then, we're not running
off mains water - it came out of our tank.

I'm so glad hubby and his cousin (who did the external plumbing &
treatment plant for our new place) heeded their old (former farmer)
grandmother's advice of "you can never have enough water" and the cousin
got us to put in the biggest tank we could afford - 98,000 litres.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Jen" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in
message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and
it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it
takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to
run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns.
I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you
didn't
even bother asking.


There was no question! That was a statement!

Yes. Exactly my point.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message

who just haven't got the first idea about anything! but the onus
is
on
country people to stop whingeing & educate them. the two lots are
entirely
interdependent, but you wouldn't know that from observing them.

Having lived in the country for the majority of my life, I
strongly
think that country people have more idea of the interdependance
and
the realities of life than city people do. We've been in drought
for
6 whole years but it is only now that the major metro papers seem
to
have woken up about it and only then because the cost of food is
really going to bite the city residents.

as a regular reader of city papers (and ex-city dweller), that's not
really
so, actually. it's probably fair to say that all individuals have
now woken
up to the problem all of a sudden. as an issue, it's just _exploded_
recently, and equally for everyone. i mean, sydney people (and those
in
other places) have been experiencing the reality of water shortages
for 5
years, haven't they?

Oh come on! Sydney people wouldn't know a water shortage if it bit
them on the arse. They only think they do.

the fact that most of them don't grow primary produce
only means that for them the situation isn't _dire_ in terms of
livelihood
in the short term; but they have been well aware of it for quite
some time
city peeps are generally better-educated

????? Not in my experience. They know a lot about some things and
naff all about other things.

and have a much broader view of the
world,

Again, not in my experience. They lack the sort of curiosity and
solution orientation of country people. They have everything handed
to them on a platter and so don't have to come up with innovative or
real life solutions or have to spend time thinking about things that
country people do. This country approach I have always found flows
over into broader mainstream approaches to world politics and foreign
affairs.

their world is just bigger than ours is.

Busier I've found but not bigger. In fact I've always been astounded
at how restricted are the lives of Sydney people in particular.

i believe it's equally
impossible for most country people to have any idea of what's really
going
on in the rest of the country. certainly the media is more
accessible, but
it seems to matter less when it's a long way away - it seems a
problem
removed, but it's not (as we all live here together).

????? I know of farmers who know of what is going on in other parts
of the rural world across the country.

Lord knows where they
thought (if they did think at all) of where their food came from.

again speaking for sydney - most fresh food there is grown in the
sydney
basin - it's local :-) (for now, anyway). again, it seems to take a
crisis
(farmland possibly being taken away for development) for people to
realise
what might be lost. argh!

Not so! You have either not been out of the city long enough or have
just proved my point about where city people think their food comes
from.

Water and how much of it is available has really been much lower
down
the agenda because in comparison to the country, our major cities
are
relativeley well supplied and taking it from miles and miles away
into
the cities..

a critical mass of people gives benefits, that's true. many services
iin the
country are crap - it's not just a water thing. (sigh). we don't
exist, you
know ;-)

Well certainly not for the Iemma or federal governments..

They've been doing soemthing about it for many more than 5 years
with
a few exceptions (like Cubbie).

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe
were talking about those things when I knew of dead boring and
very
conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their land.

that's a good point you make unintentionally

My point was intentional.

- one problem that both farmers
(as a group, not individually - i'm being very general) and
"greenies" have
is seeing the other side as the enemy,

You are talking in generalisations and it is only the case for some
farmers.

when _really_ they're obviously on
the same side. but farmers will NOT accept something a greenie
said - the
farmer's association has to say it, & _then_ it's true. anyone can
be undone
by their own limited world-view, both farmers & ecologists are no
exception.
and yet, "green" farmers are fully accepted (by all parties) on
their
results, and so many ecological issues are now entirely mainstream
anyway,
so why is there not more cooperation and dialogue? it's not green
groups
refusing to speak to farmers, that's for sure! it's just both sides
not
thinking about who their allies really are.

I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans. He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s. The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All that
knowledge was around even then.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Jen" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in
message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and
it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it
takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to
run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns.
I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you
didn't
even bother asking.


There was no question! That was a statement!

Yes. Exactly my point.



That doesn't make sense. There was no question to ask!

Water restrictions and gardens
 

In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

Oh come on! Sydney people wouldn't know a water shortage if it bit
them on the arse. They only think they do.

Frankly, you don't either. Talk to a Sudanese refugee some time. It's all a
matter of degree.

Again, not in my experience. They lack the sort of curiosity and
solution orientation of country people. They have everything handed
to them on a platter and so don't have to come up with innovative or
real life solutions or have to spend time thinking about things that
country people do. This country approach I have always found flows
over into broader mainstream approaches to world politics and foreign
affairs.

Contry people being well-known for the speed with which they embrace change...

Lord knows where they
thought (if they did think at all) of where their food came from.

again speaking for sydney - most fresh food there is grown in the
sydney basin - it's local :-) (for now, anyway). again, it seems to take a
crisis (farmland possibly being taken away for development) for people to
realise what might be lost. argh!

Not so! You have either not been out of the city long enough or have
just proved my point about where city people think their food comes
from.

Depends exactly what Otterbot means.

http://www.liverpool.nsw.gov.au/scri....asp?NID=27077

Includes the following information from someone at UWS:

'³Agricultural land around Sydney is critically important, particularly when
you consider that 90 per cent of the perishable vegetables eaten in Sydney and
40 per cent of NSW¹s eggs are produced right here,² Parker says.

Parker says that the farm gate value of agriculture in the Sydney basin is
worth $1 billion.'

There are still plenty of orchards on the fringes of Sydney, though not as
many as there used to be. I remember going up to Bilpin to get fresh peaches
when I was a kid. Yum...

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead boring and
very conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the year I did my
HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the greenhouse effect.

I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans. He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s. The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All that
knowledge was around even then.

http://gunningnsw.info/index.php/articles/483
will get you the booklet on Lyndfield Park. Unfortunately the author doesn't
say where he got his ideas from, but some of the ideas sound like they are out
of the Permaculture Design Manual.

Google PA Yeomans for the goss on him.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Water restrictions and gardens
 

Chookie wrote:

http://www.liverpool.nsw.gov.au/scri....asp?NID=27077

Includes the following information from someone at UWS:

Umm, that doesn't count for much. I always run my farm based on what a
Professor of sociology tells me. I am also quick to follow the spruiking
of someone hammering their own career. you have to remember that the
career of an academic includes "publish or perish".

'³Agricultural land around Sydney is critically important, particularly when
you consider that 90 per cent of the perishable vegetables eaten in Sydney and
40 per cent of NSW¹s eggs are produced right here,² Parker says.

Egg production isn't agriculture in my books. It is a highy
industrialised process and utilises a highly processed feed stock. If
you remove the electricity supply, chickens start dieing real fast.


Unfortunately, the boxes of goods at the market do not reflect this 90%.
I suspect that the good old prof has drawn a very fine line as to what
are "perishable vegetables" and is probably thinking things like some
chinese veges, etc.


Parker says that the farm gate value of agriculture in the Sydney basin is
worth $1 billion.'

Over what period? A year? Works out to be $1.40 per person per day,
which is not much.

And what do they define as agriculture?
Does this "agriculture" include nurseries for example?



There are still plenty of orchards on the fringes of Sydney, though not as
many as there used to be. I remember going up to Bilpin to get fresh peaches
when I was a kid. Yum...

Lol, you want to watch what you buy at those places. Often they bring it
in from outside.

I know that orange orchards towars the north have taken a hammering over
the last few decades.


Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead boring and
very conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the year I did my
HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the greenhouse effect.


I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans. He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s. The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All that
knowledge was around even then.


http://gunningnsw.info/index.php/articles/483
will get you the booklet on Lyndfield Park. Unfortunately the author doesn't
say where he got his ideas from, but some of the ideas sound like they are out
of the Permaculture Design Manual.

Lol, children. Permaculture was a product of the work of david Holmgren
in the 70s and includes the work of Yeomans, including one book from 1958.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Linda H" wrote in message
...
meeee wrote:

oh hang on ... people have sprinkler SYSTEMS now, don't they ? Not as
easy to spot as a whirley-gigger attached to a hose plonked in the middle
of the lawn :)


yep, the ole sprinkler we used to run through are pretty much gone now.


I bought one of those old backward & forward sprinklers earlier this year
when we put down an acre of lawn seed. (I'm not mad about lawns but we
had to, it was one big dust bowl.) But then, we're not running off mains
water - it came out of our tank.

I'm so glad hubby and his cousin (who did the external plumbing &
treatment plant for our new place) heeded their old (former farmer)
grandmother's advice of "you can never have enough water" and the cousin
got us to put in the biggest tank we could afford - 98,000 litres.


wow that was a very wise decision.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
In article "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

Oh come on! Sydney people wouldn't know a water shortage if it
bit
them on the arse. They only think they do.

Frankly, you don't either. Talk to a Sudanese refugee some time.
It's all a
matter of degree.

Well of course it's a matter of degree! However, I dare say I have a
much better idea about drought than some Sydney dweller who only has
to turn on a tap to get water.

And we aren't talking about Sudan. We are talking about Australia.
Sydney people should try living under the regimes in say Goulburn or
Byrock where the residents recently went for 4 and a half days without
water. They don't kick up a fuss because their water is taken from
hundreds of miles away to feed their gawping needs.

Again, not in my experience. They lack the sort of curiosity and
solution orientation of country people. They have everything
handed
to them on a platter and so don't have to come up with innovative
or
real life solutions or have to spend time thinking about things
that
country people do. This country approach I have always found
flows
over into broader mainstream approaches to world politics and
foreign
affairs.

Contry people being well-known for the speed with which they embrace
change...

:-))) Nice job of stereotyping.

Lord knows where they
thought (if they did think at all) of where their food came
from.

again speaking for sydney - most fresh food there is grown in
the
sydney basin - it's local :-) (for now, anyway). again, it seems
to take a
crisis (farmland possibly being taken away for development) for
people to
realise what might be lost. argh!

Not so! You have either not been out of the city long enough or
have
just proved my point about where city people think their food
comes
from.

Depends exactly what Otterbot means.

http://www.liverpool.nsw.gov.au/scri....asp?NID=27077

Includes the following information from someone at UWS:

'³Agricultural land around Sydney is critically important,
particularly when
you consider that 90 per cent of the perishable vegetables eaten in
Sydney and
40 per cent of NSW¹s eggs are produced right here,² Parker says.

Parker says that the farm gate value of agriculture in the Sydney
basin is
worth $1 billion.'

The Syney basin IS important for agriculture (one of my Grandfathers
was a market gardener at Botany so I DO know of the importance of this
area). However it is not the be all and end all that Otterbot seems
to think it is. And the ABS figure for the value of annual
agriculture in the Sydney basin is $450 million rather than the $1
billion mentioned by the Professor.

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change
long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead
boring and
very conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their
land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the year I
did my
HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the greenhouse
effect.

Really 1987! Bit slow off the mark.

Those stereotypically slow to accept change country people you think
so little of, first noticed such issues as salinity about a century
ago and they noticed dryland salinity in the mid 1920s. And farmers
in the WA SW first noticed and started commenting on the start of the
change to rainfall patterns in the 1970s. My own family also started
to talk of the decline in rainfall on their farm in NSW about the same
time and they live in a high rainfall area on the same farm which was
first settled by my GGGfather in 1862. The rainfall record books are
fascinating reading and especially during WWII when the women took
over for some reason.

And you may be interested in another book called "Planning for
sustainable farming: the Potter farmland plan story". This book was
published in 1991 but it records the work on a goup of farms that
started in 1983.

I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans.
He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s.
The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open
Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on
his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All
that
knowledge was around even then.

http://gunningnsw.info/index.php/articles/483
will get you the booklet on Lyndfield Park.

I already have it and have seen the farm.

Unfortunately the author doesn't
say where he got his ideas from, but some of the ideas sound like
they are out
of the Permaculture Design Manual.

Yes it does but then a lot of publications sound like that.

Google PA Yeomans for the goss on him.

His first publication on Keyline was in 1954. You can view it he
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...010125toc.html

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Jen" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
"Jen" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in
message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth
and
it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it
takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to
run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns.
I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you
didn't
even bother asking.


There was no question! That was a statement!

Yes. Exactly my point.

That doesn't make sense. There was no question to ask!

:-)))))) There is but I won't tell you what it is.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Terryc" wrote in message
Chookie wrote:

http://www.liverpool.nsw.gov.au/scri....asp?NID=27077

Includes the following information from someone at UWS:

'³Agricultural land around Sydney is critically important,
particularly when
you consider that 90 per cent of the perishable vegetables eaten
in Sydney and
40 per cent of NSW¹s eggs are produced right here,² Parker says.

Egg production isn't agriculture in my books. It is a highy
industrialised process and utilises a highly processed feed stock.
If
you remove the electricity supply, chickens start dieing real fast.

Unfortunately, the boxes of goods at the market do not reflect this
90%.
I suspect that the good old prof has drawn a very fine line as to
what
are "perishable vegetables" and is probably thinking things like
some
chinese veges, etc.


Parker says that the farm gate value of agriculture in the Sydney
basin is
worth $1 billion.'

Over what period? A year? Works out to be $1.40 per person per day,
which is not much.

And what do they define as agriculture?
Does this "agriculture" include nurseries for example?


I wonder if he included the Ingams body factories? They'd have to be
pushing out a fortune in chook meat.

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change
long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead
boring and
very conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their
land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the year
I did my
HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the
greenhouse effect.


I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans.
He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s.
The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open
Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on
his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All
that
knowledge was around even then.


http://gunningnsw.info/index.php/articles/483
will get you the booklet on Lyndfield Park. Unfortunately the
author doesn't
say where he got his ideas from, but some of the ideas sound like
they are out
of the Permaculture Design Manual.

Lol, children. Permaculture was a product of the work of david
Holmgren
in the 70s and includes the work of Yeomans, including one book from
1958.

Exactly so! I believe it was "The Challenge of Landscape".

He also used the 1963 book by Lord called "The Care of the Earth".
I've always been rather surprised that Louis Bromfield's "Malabar
Farm" (1948) didn't somehow make it into the Bibliography given what a
seminal work that was.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

In article ,
"Ms Leebee" wrote:

Whenever I think i'm over being shocked by the behaviours of others,
somthing else shocks me, and I think "Am I that naiive ?".

OT to gardens, but the recent Victorian Schoolboy DVD furore of late has had
me wishing to slit my wrists in despair.

I can think of better uses for the knife...

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Water restrictions and gardens
 

Farm1 wrote:

The Syney basin IS important for agriculture (one of my Grandfathers
was a market gardener at Botany so I DO know of the importance of this
area).

what name?
I suspect my direct lot had moved to Leeton, and were heading to Matcham
by then



Those stereotypically slow to accept change country people you think
so little of, first noticed such issues as salinity about a century
ago and they noticed dryland salinity in the mid 1920s.

The real problem for farmers were the various dept of agriculture which
advised governments of the day and compelled some farmers to grow
certain crops in bad area.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Terryc" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:

The Syney basin IS important for agriculture (one of my
Grandfathers
was a market gardener at Botany so I DO know of the importance of
this
area).

what name?

William (Bill) Mortimer aka "The Cabbage King".

I suspect my direct lot had moved to Leeton, and were heading to
Matcham
by then

Those stereotypically slow to accept change country people you
think
so little of, first noticed such issues as salinity about a
century
ago and they noticed dryland salinity in the mid 1920s.

The real problem for farmers were the various dept of agriculture
which
advised governments of the day and compelled some farmers to grow
certain crops in bad area.

And bad advice from Govt agencies and Consultants about high stocking
rates and increasing production by flogging the land was still going
on well into the 80s. Sad.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

Farm1 wrote:



William (Bill) Mortimer aka "The Cabbage King".

Umm, must be more than your Grandfather if it is the one that built the
Cabbage Hotel whch was after the time of Simeon Lord. well, that is the
only cabbage king that i know of.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Terryc" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:

William (Bill) Mortimer aka "The Cabbage King".

Umm, must be more than your Grandfather if it is the one that built
the
Cabbage Hotel whch was after the time of Simeon Lord. well, that is
the
only cabbage king that i know of.

He had nothing to do with any hotel. He was known as the Cabbage King
because he planted so many cabbages by hand each year. This was in
the days before tractors but with horse and plough.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

Frankly, you don't either. Talk to a Sudanese refugee some time.
It's all a matter of degree.

Well of course it's a matter of degree! However, I dare say I have a
much better idea about drought than some Sydney dweller who only has
to turn on a tap to get water.

And we aren't talking about Sudan. We are talking about Australia.
Sydney people should try living under the regimes in say Goulburn or
Byrock where the residents recently went for 4 and a half days without
water. They don't kick up a fuss because their water is taken from
hundreds of miles away to feed their gawping needs.

I don't see why Sydney people wouldn't be able to put up with that, if
necessary. Of course we have 4 million people here, and some of them are
dills -- we've had people like the OP protesting to the newspapers about not
watering their lawns, but they get bucketed (no pun intended!). And of course
our decision-makers are often dills (don't get me started on Sartor or
desalination!) so they're the ones who start talking about pinching the water
from Tallowa etc.

My letter on a related subject was published today. I am now awaiting the
backlash from the anti-germ brigade. (Near the bottom of the page...)

http://www.smh.com.au/letters/index....e#contentSwap2

Again, not in my experience. They lack the sort of curiosity and
solution orientation of country people. They have everything
handed to them on a platter and so don't have to come up with
innovative or real life solutions or have to spend time thinking
about things that country people do.

Sydney is not Cranbrook. Nor does it consist entirely of the North Shore.

Truth be told, there are probably too many people in Sydney who don't 'think
about things' because they are trying to keep their heads above (metaphorical)
water of some kind. I work in TAFE and I see these people.

Contry people being well-known for the speed with which they embrace
change...

:-))) Nice job of stereotyping.

Yours too ;-)

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change
long before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead
boring and very conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on
their land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the year I
did my HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the
greenhouse effect.

Really 1987! Bit slow off the mark.

I was 17, you geriatric! Couldn't afford to buy books before I turned 16 and
became eligible for Austudy.

Those stereotypically slow to accept change country people you think
so little of, first noticed such issues as salinity about a century
ago and they noticed dryland salinity in the mid 1920s. And farmers
in the WA SW first noticed and started commenting on the start of the
change to rainfall patterns in the 1970s. My own family also started
to talk of the decline in rainfall on their farm in NSW about the same
time and they live in a high rainfall area on the same farm which was
first settled by my GGGfather in 1862.

The question is: what did they DO about it? For example, farmers were still
*clearing* the WA wheat area in the 1920s. The plantings/earthworks I saw
were, I would estimate, ten years old. Bit of a gap there.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Water restrictions and gardens
 

In article
,
Terryc wrote:

'³Agricultural land around Sydney is critically important, particularly
when
you consider that 90 per cent of the perishable vegetables eaten in Sydney
and
40 per cent of NSW¹s eggs are produced right here,² Parker says.

Egg production isn't agriculture in my books. It is a highy
industrialised process and utilises a highly processed feed stock. If
you remove the electricity supply, chickens start dieing real fast.

Well, you and I don't control the definition of 'agriculture'.

Unfortunately, the boxes of goods at the market do not reflect this 90%.
I suspect that the good old prof has drawn a very fine line as to what
are "perishable vegetables" and is probably thinking things like some
chinese veges, etc.

I think so -- herbs, lettuce, bok choy etc -- not things like spuds and
carrots.

Parker says that the farm gate value of agriculture in the Sydney basin is
worth $1 billion.'

Over what period? A year? Works out to be $1.40 per person per day,
which is not much.

shrug
What are you comparing it to?

And what do they define as agriculture?
Does this "agriculture" include nurseries for example?

Quite possibly -- and I believe it includes cut flowers too.

There are still plenty of orchards on the fringes of Sydney, though not as
many as there used to be. I remember going up to Bilpin to get fresh
peaches when I was a kid. Yum...

Lol, you want to watch what you buy at those places. Often they bring it
in from outside.

I was amused by this once. Apple boxes saying not 'Bilpin' but 'Batlow'! No,
the peaches I remember were softball size and probably too ripe to send to
Sydney, being sold by a family at the edge of their property. They were
heavenly.

Lol, children. Permaculture was a product of the work of david Holmgren
in the 70s and includes the work of Yeomans, including one book from 1958.

And Bill Mollison, but he and Holmgren don't seem to be seen together any
more. Anyone know the goss?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote:

since i got here (the country) i've really noticed what a gap there is
between city people & country people. sadly, it's the majority (city
people)
who just haven't got the first idea about anything! but the onus is on
country people to stop whingeing & educate them. the two lots are
entirely
interdependent, but you wouldn't know that from observing them.

What differences have you seen?

not a difference in "type", but a difference in interests/focus/etc & that
sort of thing.

I'm asking because I've had a couple of
country people tell me I'm more like a country person than a city person,
and it seems to be a compliment ;-)

perhaps they mean you talk really fast but with your mouth almost entirely
closed? g
i don't know what people might mean by that. ime city peeps are just as
friendly as country peeps & i'm unsure where the idea comes from that cities
are "unfriendly" (if it's about "friendliness" & that sort of thing). most
country peeps seem much less inclined toward one-upmanship &
jones-keeping-upping & mad consumerism & all that stuff. i suppose they mean
you seem genuine or something!

What do you think the new ddrought assistance package will do? Will it
prolong unsustainable farming, or is it OK?

i don't know enough about it all to comment, really. in theory i'm in favour
of that sort of thing so i hope it pans out well.

personally, i don't think there's such a thing as "unviable" land in & of
itself - it's more a question of what a viable use for an area would be; &
so by me, that makes drought assistance with the aid of business plans a
good thing. one would assume that by nature, people are disinclined to keep
doing something they know just is not foreseeably ever going to work out (&
would by preference do somehting different - at least eventually!!!). i'm
not sure to what degree this sort of assistance encourages or discourages
that, or has any effect really - i think people are more inclined to
experiment with different uses for their land for maximum good outcomes
because they just tend to do that, not because it's tied to or provoked by
an assistance package. but what do i know.
kylie

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
.. i mean, sydney people (and those
in
other places) have been experiencing the reality of water shortages
for 5
years, haven't they?

Oh come on! Sydney people wouldn't know a water shortage if it bit
them on the arse. They only think they do.

dude, they know. they don't "know" in the sense of "being deeply affected by
economically", but they, obviously, know. it's ludicrous to suggest
otherwise when it's been a hot topic for many years now, & i was living
there when it first all blew up. again, just because most of them don't rely
on rainfall to make a living does not make the awareness any less acute.
(snip)

I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans. He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s. The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All that
knowledge was around even then.

frankly i'm a bit amazed at how combative your response is, and the way you
feel it's all right to generalise about witless cityfolk where it's not all
right for people to make statements they acknowledge are general(?)

i'm not sure where you might have got the idea that i'm painting country
people as dimwits when i'm _obviously_ not.
kylie

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
Lol, children. Permaculture was a product of the work of david Holmgren
in the 70s and includes the work of Yeomans, including one book from
1958.

And Bill Mollison, but he and Holmgren don't seem to be seen together any
more. Anyone know the goss?

never mind the goss - i've read 3 permaculture books so far & i'm just not
GETTING IT. what's the goss on that? :-)

afaict, it's all about slopes and windbreaks & planting stuff irrelevent to
soil type etc, & the remainder is what i'd call "the bleeding obvious". who
the hell needs a fire mandala? what am i missing??
kylie

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

Frankly, you don't either. Talk to a Sudanese refugee some
time.
It's all a matter of degree.

Well of course it's a matter of degree! However, I dare say I
have a
much better idea about drought than some Sydney dweller who only
has
to turn on a tap to get water.

And we aren't talking about Sudan. We are talking about
Australia.
Sydney people should try living under the regimes in say Goulburn
or
Byrock where the residents recently went for 4 and a half days
without
water. They don't kick up a fuss because their water is taken
from
hundreds of miles away to feed their gawping needs.

I don't see why Sydney people wouldn't be able to put up with that,
if
necessary.

Well they may not have much choice so they would have to put up with
it or do something about it to sort out their own problems - not easy
if they live in as unit or flat though.

My letter on a related subject was published today. I am now
awaiting the
backlash from the anti-germ brigade. (Near the bottom of the
page...)

http://www.smh.com.au/letters/index....e#contentSwap2

Again, not in my experience. They lack the sort of curiosity
and
solution orientation of country people. They have everything
handed to them on a platter and so don't have to come up with
innovative or real life solutions or have to spend time
thinking
about things that country people do.

Sydney is not Cranbrook. Nor does it consist entirely of the North
Shore.

Truth be told, there are probably too many people in Sydney who
don't 'think
about things' because they are trying to keep their heads above
(metaphorical)
water of some kind. I work in TAFE and I see these people.

You mean you have such things as TAFEs within easy access?

Of course all of Sydney is not posh but at least it has such things as
hospitals and schools and police stations and all sorts of other
services. On a platter.

Contry people being well-known for the speed with which they
embrace
change...

:-))) Nice job of stereotyping.

Yours too ;-)

Yes I did realise that which is precisely why I wrote what I did.

However, I have reached the stage and age where I have seen and heard
so much shit come out of the city brain and mouth that I'm not very
tolerant anymore. The city people are very busy and talk lots (and
that is even the ones I know and love) but they really don't observe
too well. Too many fleeting glimpses or thoughts and not enough
cogitation before saying or half thinking about soemthing before
heading off to the next social engagement or need for busyness.

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate
change
long before the bulk of the population. Only the real
lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead
boring and very conservative farmers who'd noticed the
impact on
their land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the
year I
did my HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the
greenhouse effect.

Really 1987! Bit slow off the mark.

I was 17, you geriatric! Couldn't afford to buy books before I
turned 16 and
became eligible for Austudy.

Not You! The book was slow off the mark, you silly young thinglet!

Those stereotypically slow to accept change country people you
think
so little of, first noticed such issues as salinity about a
century
ago and they noticed dryland salinity in the mid 1920s. And
farmers
in the WA SW first noticed and started commenting on the start of
the
change to rainfall patterns in the 1970s. My own family also
started
to talk of the decline in rainfall on their farm in NSW about the
same
time and they live in a high rainfall area on the same farm which
was
first settled by my GGGfather in 1862.

The question is: what did they DO about it? For example, farmers
were still
*clearing* the WA wheat area in the 1920s. The plantings/earthworks
I saw
were, I would estimate, ten years old. Bit of a gap there.

Yes, I agree. But to solve dryland salinity and all sorts of other
land related problems is not one where a quick solution or rushing in
and doing anything and/or everything will always work. It was many
years before it was found that the way to treat erosion was to treat
the head of the erosion and not the body of the erosion.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
My letter on a related subject was published today. I am now
awaiting the
backlash from the anti-germ brigade. (Near the bottom of the
page...)

http://www.smh.com.au/letters/index....e#contentSwap2

I went to this site and couldn't find any letter relating to water or
drought. Was I a day too late?

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
Terryc wrote:

Lol, children. Permaculture was a product of the work of david
Holmgren
in the 70s and includes the work of Yeomans, including one book
from 1958.

And Bill Mollison, but he and Holmgren don't seem to be seen
together any
more. Anyone know the goss?

I actually think it was origianlly Holmgren's work and Bill hitched
along later. I had heard that Bill is sick and he's now also quite
elderly.

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
. i mean, sydney people (and those
in
other places) have been experiencing the reality of water
shortages
for 5
years, haven't they?

Oh come on! Sydney people wouldn't know a water shortage if it
bit
them on the arse. They only think they do.

dude, they know. they don't "know" in the sense of "being deeply
affected by
economically", but they, obviously, know. it's ludicrous to suggest
otherwise when it's been a hot topic for many years now, & i was
living
there when it first all blew up. again, just because most of them
don't rely
on rainfall to make a living does not make the awareness any less
acute.
(snip)

Well they know is a very, very limited sense. And that sense is that
they are now talking of the need to get MORE water for Sydney. And
taking it from further and further way, like the Shoalhaven River.
The bloody Shoalhaven for God's sake!

If they had any clues of the impact of their gawping needs they should
(but not likely since they don[t really have nay clues) all be up in
arms about taking water in to Sydeny from as far away as Kangaroo
Valley (which is happening now) but no, they want more and from even
further away!

I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans.
He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s.
The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open
Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on
his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All
that
knowledge was around even then.

frankly i'm a bit amazed at how combative your response is, and the
way you
feel it's all right to generalise about witless cityfolk where it's
not all
right for people to make statements they acknowledge are general(?)

And frankly I'm equally amazed at your inability to take on board refe
rences given to enable you to do some research and that may challenge
your generalisations (you can even access then online so don't even
have to inconvenience yourself by going outside) .

i'm not sure where you might have got the idea that i'm painting
country
people as dimwits when i'm _obviously_ not.

Really? I particulalry enjoyed the one about:
"city peeps are generally better-educated and have a much broader view
of the
world, their world is just bigger than ours is"

Such a generalisation really surprised me. I know I get to the Opera
House more often than my city rels do now that the ballet dancer has
ended her career (and they only went to see her anyway, not a range of
things) and I am always amazed at how busy my city friend and rels are
but how little they actually use the benefits of the city. The
routine of daily living for them is much more restrictive on their
lifestyle than it is for the country people I know. They go to more
restaurants and movies but not to do anything useful in a cultural or
educative sense - just much more social. Lots of talk but no meat.

And when it comes to education, my (country born and bred and working)
Mechanic has 2 degrees and he's not the only country person I know who
has such surprising qualifications behind his rough exterior. I also
get a particular kick out of the very traditonal sheep farmer I know
who looks like a total hay seed and lives in the deep deep country but
who has a PhD (thesis was on sheep).

Water restrictions and gardens
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Chookie" wrote in message

Lol, children. Permaculture was a product of the work of david
Holmgren
in the 70s and includes the work of Yeomans, including one book
from
1958.

And Bill Mollison, but he and Holmgren don't seem to be seen
together any
more. Anyone know the goss?

never mind the goss - i've read 3 permaculture books so far & i'm
just not
GETTING IT. what's the goss on that? :-)

Which books have you read and what is it about them that you aren't
getting?

afaict, it's all about slopes and windbreaks & planting stuff
irrelevent to
soil type etc, & the remainder is what i'd call "the bleeding
obvious". who
the hell needs a fire mandala? what am i missing??

What don't you understand about slopes and windbreaks? Which book
mentions a fire mandala? Most of the physical Permaculature
principles ARE bleeding obvious (or it is to most country people who
have some experience of the land [sorry, but I couldn't resist that
dig given your previous comments about the better education and bigger
world of city people]}