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Re Water Restrictions
I followed the previous thread on Water Restrictions one thing that struck me was no one call for water tanks to be made compulsory on all new bluidings. People will argue the cost of a tank too high yet people will spend some $2500 on a big screen TV. I think council should pass a bylaw that all new bluiding must have a minium of 500gal tank even connected to town water. Up our way (Central Victoria) any changes to the property the first thing council ask is any trees to be removed but nothing about water saving. Mailman --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0645-4, 03/11/2006 Tested on: 4/11/2006 9:24:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re Water Restrictions
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Re Water Restrictions
wrote in message ... I followed the previous thread on Water Restrictions one thing that struck me was no one call for water tanks to be made compulsory on all new bluidings. People will argue the cost of a tank too high yet people will spend some $2500 on a big screen TV. I think council should pass a bylaw that all new bluiding must have a minium of 500gal tank even connected to town water. Up our way (Central Victoria) any changes to the property the first thing council ask is any trees to be removed but nothing about water saving. Mailman --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0645-4, 03/11/2006 Tested on: 4/11/2006 9:24:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com That is happening in different States now and with some Governments offering Cash Back incentives for water saving devices including water tanks, showers heads and some washing machines the appeal is a lot greater. |
Re Water Restrictions
RooBoy wrote:
That is happening in different States now and with some Governments offering Cash Back incentives for water saving devices including water tanks, showers heads and some washing machines the appeal is a lot greater. In NSW, it comes with a compulsory plumber requirment. aka it costs you more money than the cash payment, so it isn't worth anything. |
Re Water Restrictions
I'm in NSW and when I bought this house 14 years ago asked the local
council about fitting a water tank because I had been living out of town and had water tanks for many years......the council (in their infinite wisdom) refused permission to fit a tank stating it was against their policy. Of course, I didn't tell them I wanted the water tank to supply drinking water, because I'd had prior warning that they were totally against this and any collected water was to be for garden use only. Now.....it's compulsory to fit a water tank to any new houses. How their thinking changes??? LOL HC ;-) Terryc wrote: RooBoy wrote: That is happening in different States now and with some Governments offering Cash Back incentives for water saving devices including water tanks, showers heads and some washing machines the appeal is a lot greater. In NSW, it comes with a compulsory plumber requirment. aka it costs you more money than the cash payment, so it isn't worth anything. |
Re Water Restrictions
In article
, Terryc wrote: In NSW, it was proposed to make certain features compulsory in new homes, but we had all the developes crying crocodile tears and sayin that will make it too expensive for first home buyer, oh woe is them (US). So they removed the requirments. I believe water tanks were one. Well, they brought in BASIX, but with a very long lead time, and made it easy to pass just by installing efficient appliances instead of requiring better building design. BASIX for renovations/extensions came in on 1 October 2006. We got our DA in a few days prior -- and our DA includes giving our house better passive solar design and rainwater tanks. The architect said that BASIX for us would just mean another set of consultancy fees! I think council should pass a bylaw that all new bluiding must have a minium of 500gal tank even connected to town water. Up our way (Central Victoria) any changes to the property the first thing council ask is any trees to be removed but nothing about water saving. Thought I heard something this morning about how in VIC it is compulsory for new houses to have either rainwater tanks or solar hot water? Tree removal is covering their arse as people have an absolute paranoia about falling tree limbs. I guess that I am 1,00,000 more times likely to die on the roads than by a tree falling on me. There's also trees falling onto cars/houses, and cleaning up after storms. Personally, that's a risk I want to live with. There are parts of Baulkham Hills Shire that give you the willies -- bricks and rooftops to the horizon, and NO ROOM for trees. Betcha those areas will have higher suicide rates. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled." Kerry Cue |
Re Water Restrictions
Chookie wrote:
Tree removal is covering their arse as people have an absolute paranoia about falling tree limbs. I guess that I am 1,00,000 more times likely to die on the roads than by a tree falling on me. There's also trees falling onto cars/houses, and cleaning up after storms. Personally, that's a risk I want to live with. Our thoughts exactly. the feature of our back yard is a massive gum tree. Pitty it is on the eastern side, but it provides a cool location in summer and attracts many and varied birds. Excellent. There are parts of Baulkham Hills Shire that give you the willies -- bricks and rooftops to the horizon, and NO ROOM for trees. Betcha those areas will have higher suicide rates. Did town planning asubject at Tafe in Ultimo, where there is a room with a picture of a dutch town. It it horrifying to me. Almost a square mile of red, red, red,. no green trees or bushes. |
Re Water Restrictions
HC wrote:
I'm in NSW and when I bought this house 14 years ago asked the local council about fitting a water tank because I had been living out of town and had water tanks for many years......the council (in their infinite wisdom) refused permission to fit a tank stating it was against their policy. Of course, I didn't tell them I wanted the water tank to supply drinking water, because I'd had prior warning that they were totally against this and any collected water was to be for garden use only. Now.....it's compulsory to fit a water tank to any new houses. How their thinking changes??? LOL Okay, i'll fess up. I knew that and just installed the tanks anyway. Then they changed the policy and wanted approval and fee. Now I think you just can. We wanted ours for a water feature and garden. Pump broke on water feature, so now it is just garden. Maybe if we fit a third tank of 10K+ litre down the back yard. we will connect the toilet, but first I need to install greywater diverters on laundry, kitchen and bathroom for back lawn and low level gardens. |
Re Water Restrictions
g'day mailman,
the building industry and the yuppies it builds pretty and unfunctional inefficient designed homes for is a sacred cow, so common sense laws will never be bought in, and if they did it may be whole little way late storyy chanes sould have been bought into that industry 30 or 40 years ago. with the things that go on in the building industry that new home buyers don't see i wouldn't want to trust a builder and his plumber fitting an underground tank, plus they will turn a $10,000 cost into an extra amybe $30,000 on the end price. On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 09:24:01 +1100, wrote: snipped With peace and brightest of blessings, len -- "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand." http://www.gardenlen.com |
Re Water Restrictions
"Chookie" wrote in message ... In article , Terryc wrote: In NSW, it was proposed to make certain features compulsory in new homes, but we had all the developes crying crocodile tears and sayin that will make it too expensive for first home buyer, oh woe is them (US). So they removed the requirments. I believe water tanks were one. Well, they brought in BASIX, but with a very long lead time, and made it easy to pass just by installing efficient appliances instead of requiring better building design. BASIX for renovations/extensions came in on 1 October 2006. We got our DA in a few days prior -- and our DA includes giving our house better passive solar design and rainwater tanks. The architect said that BASIX for us would just mean another set of consultancy fees! I think council should pass a bylaw that all new bluiding must have a minium of 500gal tank even connected to town water. Up our way (Central Victoria) any changes to the property the first thing council ask is any trees to be removed but nothing about water saving. Thought I heard something this morning about how in VIC it is compulsory for new houses to have either rainwater tanks or solar hot water? Tree removal is covering their arse as people have an absolute paranoia about falling tree limbs. I guess that I am 1,00,000 more times likely to die on the roads than by a tree falling on me. There's also trees falling onto cars/houses, and cleaning up after storms. Personally, that's a risk I want to live with. There are parts of Baulkham Hills Shire that give you the willies -- bricks and rooftops to the horizon, and NO ROOM for trees. Betcha those areas will have higher suicide rates. I don't get it. Are the council stopping people from removing trees, because people are paranoid about them, and removing them willy nilly? Or are the councils forcing people to remove them because the council's paranoid? Here in Victoria, it's very, very hard to get permission to remove trees. I've known of a few people who really wanted to remove just a couple, out of places that were in their way, or would shade the house too much. But they weren't allowed. I think that's gone too far. Jen |
Re Water Restrictions
"Jen" wrote in message
... and NO ROOM for trees. Betcha those areas will have higher suicide rates. I don't get it. Are the council stopping people from removing trees, because people are paranoid about them, and removing them willy nilly? Or are the councils forcing people to remove them because the council's paranoid? no no - that's the belt with all the mcmansions. there's no room on the blocks for anything once the mcmansion goes up. we went to kellyville to have a gawp one day years ago - i'm still not over it, i don't think i ever will be ;-) kylie |
Re Water Restrictions
"0tterbot" wrote in message ... "Jen" wrote in message ... and NO ROOM for trees. Betcha those areas will have higher suicide rates. I don't get it. Are the council stopping people from removing trees, because people are paranoid about them, and removing them willy nilly? Or are the councils forcing people to remove them because the council's paranoid? no no - that's the belt with all the mcmansions. there's no room on the blocks for anything once the mcmansion goes up. we went to kellyville to have a gawp one day years ago - i'm still not over it, i don't think i ever will be ;-) kylie Aww and I remember kellyville being a sleepy little almost rural area of sydney where my great uncle had goats, extremely aggro geese, and Cousin Len would camp down the back when he was down on his luck.....how times have changed!! |
Re Water Restrictions
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote: no no - that's the belt with all the mcmansions. there's no room on the blocks for anything once the mcmansion goes up. we went to kellyville to have a gawp one day years ago - i'm still not over it, i don't think i ever will be ;-) Nor me, especially when I (like Meeeee) remember what it used to look like :-( My Grandma used to say of something disproportionate that it was "like a pimple on a pumpkin". A McMansion on a tiny block looks like a pumpkin on a pimple! -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled." Kerry Cue |
Re Water Restrictions
"Chookie" wrote in message ... In article , "0tterbot" wrote: no no - that's the belt with all the mcmansions. there's no room on the blocks for anything once the mcmansion goes up. we went to kellyville to have a gawp one day years ago - i'm still not over it, i don't think i ever will be ;-) Nor me, especially when I (like Meeeee) remember what it used to look like :-( My Grandma used to say of something disproportionate that it was "like a pimple on a pumpkin". A McMansion on a tiny block looks like a pumpkin on a pimple! lol absolutely true. It's happening here in cairns too...we have this lovely big mountain behind us, beautifully rainforest and every weekend there seems to be a new white and orange Tuscan style horrible Mc Mansion on it. DH's boss has one up there, but I love him for it because he seems to be the only guy who has a timber and brown colourbond house with trees actually left around it....can't see the house at all. As for the other atrocities...I'm hoping for mudslides. Not deadly ones of course...just enough to thoroughly disenchant them with hillside show off living. Ridiculous. And afaik my great uncle still has his patch of paradise in kellyville...probably much to the disgust of his Gucci clad neighbours. |
Re Water Restrictions
Joe wrote:
I think there should be some sort of incentive for owners of existing homes to install tanks as well - maybe a one-time reduction in their water rates. We get a rebate here in WA. Or we did until recently, not sure if it has been extended or not. It was worth $500 if I remember correctly. |
Re Water Restrictions
"meeee" wrote in message
... lol absolutely true. It's happening here in cairns too...we have this lovely big mountain behind us, beautifully rainforest and every weekend there seems to be a new white and orange Tuscan style horrible Mc Mansion on it. DH's boss has one up there, but I love him for it because he seems to be the only guy who has a timber and brown colourbond house with trees actually left around it....can't see the house at all. recently, for reasons which are actually irrelevent now, we were looking at what sorts of kit homes etc one could buy. it was often the case that the more pleasant, smaller, subtle houses did not represent "value for money" (cough) as the whoppers. i mean, a house half the size or less was not half the price. (nor really relatively cheaper i think i mean, since some costs are fixed). most of the companies had these horrific monstrosities out the wazoo & only a few small, nice ones. not enough companies had passive solar design or inclusions like solar, or solar hot water, or such as that. it was disappointing to say the least. i can't fathom why developers in australia are allowed to run riot. well, i know why, but it's not acceptable. ffs it doesn't need to be _encouraged_! As for the other atrocities...I'm hoping for mudslides. Not deadly ones of course...just enough to thoroughly disenchant them with hillside show off living. what a grand plan! ;-) Ridiculous. And afaik my great uncle still has his patch of paradise in kellyville...probably much to the disgust of his Gucci clad neighbours. cough i don't think they're wearing gucci, i think they're wearing target cough kylie |
Re Water Restrictions
recently, for reasons which are actually irrelevent now, we were looking at what sorts of kit homes etc one could buy. it was often the case that the more pleasant, smaller, subtle houses did not represent "value for money" (cough) as the whoppers. i mean, a house half the size or less was not half the price. (nor really relatively cheaper i think i mean, since some costs are fixed). most of the companies had these horrific monstrosities out the wazoo & only a few small, nice ones. not enough companies had passive solar design or inclusions like solar, or solar hot water, or such as that. it was disappointing to say the least. i can't fathom why developers in australia are allowed to run riot. well, i know why, but it's not acceptable. ffs it doesn't need to be _encouraged_! Yes, we've been doing the same thing. My parents ended up building their own stone house for the same reason. Totally solar powered with wood fire etc. Dad loves it when there's a blackout cause he's the only one with TV! We might end up doing the same thing eventually. DH is a lot more handy than dad so it might not take him 10 years to finish.... As for the other atrocities...I'm hoping for mudslides. Not deadly ones of course...just enough to thoroughly disenchant them with hillside show off living. what a grand plan! ;-) LOL I'm evil I know....but I live in hope. Ridiculous. And afaik my great uncle still has his patch of paradise in kellyville...probably much to the disgust of his Gucci clad neighbours. cough i don't think they're wearing gucci, i think they're wearing target cough kylie |
Re Water Restrictions
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Re Water Restrictions
0tterbot wrote:
recently, for reasons which are actually irrelevent now, we were looking at what sorts of kit homes etc one could buy. it was often the case that the more pleasant, smaller, subtle houses did not represent "value for money" Most kit home builders have 2 bed (or even 1 bed) 1 bath designs. Try finding a 2x1 house anywhere else. http://www.ezyhomes.com.au/manadalay.php http://www.beachlifehomes.com.au/kit...kitplans_id=58 http://www.kithomes.com.au/326-budget.html House construction definitely falls into the "economies of scale" syndrome. For instance, the kitchen and bathroom are the most expensive rooms in the house, and the cost of a kitchen or bathroom is the same irrespective of the total cost of the house. Then you have to get the trades in - it is cheaper to get in one electrician to wire up a large house than to wire up two houses half the size. These things are fairly self-evident, and if there is not much demand for small houses it is because customers aren't prepared to pay a higher price per square metre. It isn't really the builders' fault. They just want to sell houses. Customers want environmentally sound houses until they have to pay for them. only a few small, nice ones. not enough companies had passive solar design or inclusions like solar, or solar hot water, or such as that. it was disappointing to say the least Much of the passive design involves correctly orienting the house on the site. Most builders will let you move windows and modify window size at little cost, and passive design largely involves relatively minor customisation to suit the house orientation. Most kit homes are lightweight framed construction, so not suited to thermal mass principles, but you can pack plenty of insulation into the frame/ceiling/floor. As far as your water heating goes, a kit supplier might offer a particular solution as standard but you are free to install something else. |
Re Water Restrictions
wrote in message
ups.com... 0tterbot wrote: recently, for reasons which are actually irrelevent now, we were looking at what sorts of kit homes etc one could buy. it was often the case that the more pleasant, smaller, subtle houses did not represent "value for money" Most kit home builders have 2 bed (or even 1 bed) 1 bath designs. Try finding a 2x1 house anywhere else. sorry, by "small" or "modest" or whatever i said, i meant, "has three bedrooms (or two BIG bedrooms, like a proper old-fashioned house), but no "rumpus room" as big as a football field, or "parent's retreat" or any of that crap they come up with. kwim? http://www.ezyhomes.com.au/manadalay.php http://www.beachlifehomes.com.au/kit...kitplans_id=58 http://www.kithomes.com.au/326-budget.html those are cute. i did see a lot of cute, little ones. but we're a family of 4. i (at the time) just wanted a normal-size little house. there wasn't enough that was practical & modest. House construction definitely falls into the "economies of scale" syndrome. For instance, the kitchen and bathroom are the most expensive rooms in the house, and the cost of a kitchen or bathroom is the same irrespective of the total cost of the house. Then you have to get the trades in - it is cheaper to get in one electrician to wire up a large house than to wire up two houses half the size. These things are fairly self-evident, and if there is not much demand for small houses it is because customers aren't prepared to pay a higher price per square metre. It isn't really the builders' fault. They just want to sell houses. Customers want environmentally sound houses until they have to pay for them. "environmentally sound" does not equal "ridiculously expensive" (nor even "more expensive") and i think that last sentence of yours isn't quite correct anyway - the ostentatious brigade don't give a shit, & they evidently(?) comprise a fair segment of that market, _if_ the market is genuinely supplying what people "want". i understand your points above - some costs are fixed & that is that, but it's nevertheless true that an unfortunate majority of these types of things are just ostentatious crap which ALSO represent an overly-expensive product which just isn't good value :-) of course there are good ones - but they're far too rare. there should be more in the middle - not a granny flat or weekender, but not an ostentatious piece of rubbish which takes several hours just to vacuum. and that's all i'm saying :-) you'll have seen yourself there's just a gap in that middle section of the market. only a few small, nice ones. not enough companies had passive solar design or inclusions like solar, or solar hot water, or such as that. it was disappointing to say the least Much of the passive design involves correctly orienting the house on the site. Most builders will let you move windows and modify window size at little cost, and passive design largely involves relatively minor customisation to suit the house orientation. one should not have to customise to fix designers' ignorance or mistakes. it is they who should be making as good a product as possible, because that's (supposed to be) their job. Most kit homes are lightweight framed construction, so not suited to thermal mass principles, but you can pack plenty of insulation into the frame/ceiling/floor. As far as your water heating goes, a kit supplier might offer a particular solution as standard but you are free to install something else. same as above. i fully realise they're not all awful. i'm bitching because too many of them are awful, the "norm" for kit homes is, in my opinion, awful :-) i gave up & was going to get a converted container (or two), but at any rate it didn't matter in the end. kylie |
Re Water Restrictions
"meeee" wrote in message
... Yes, we've been doing the same thing. My parents ended up building their own stone house for the same reason. Totally solar powered with wood fire etc. Dad loves it when there's a blackout cause he's the only one with TV! We might end up doing the same thing eventually. DH is a lot more handy than dad so it might not take him 10 years to finish.... no, that would be a bit much.... we ended up with a solar-powered glorified shed, which i'm doing up (as necessary) with 2nd hand stuff, but it's a bit of a struggle -i've discovered none of the rooms are actually squared :-). we have to save up for improvements to the power because we need to run the generator for a few hours every day, which is absurd, but there's no other choice (as you've probably discovered from your dad, you can't let the batteries run right down). which, naturally, led to dh fantasising about building a straw-bale house - never mind how to power it. by the time i finish with this one, i'm NOT LEAVING!! i can't seem to make him understand that, though ;-) at any rate, we're all set to be the first on the road with a wind turbine too. the joneses, we _are_! lol. kylie |
Re Water Restrictions
0tterbot wrote:
sorry, by "small" or "modest" or whatever i said, i meant, "has three bedrooms (or two BIG bedrooms, like a proper old-fashioned house), but no "rumpus room" as big as a football field, or "parent's retreat" or any of that crap they come up with. kwim? http://www.ezyhomes.com.au/manadalay.php http://www.beachlifehomes.com.au/kit...kitplans_id=58 http://www.kithomes.com.au/326-budget.html those are cute. i did see a lot of cute, little ones. but we're a family of 4. i (at the time) just wanted a normal-size little house. there wasn't enough that was practical & modest. Something like this perhaps? http://www.ezyhomes.com.au/images/ou...Floor-Plan.jpg or this: http://www.beachlifehomes.com.au/kit...kitplans_id=55 I see lots of designs in this range. I see an awful lot of "home theatres" as well, but apparently lots of people want those. Customers want environmentally sound houses until they have to pay for them. "environmentally sound" does not equal "ridiculously expensive" (nor even "more expensive") It definitely equals "more expensive" (at least in up front cost). Any insulation is going to cost more than no insulation. Larger eaves cost more than "tuscan" eaves. Timber or tile floors cost more than carpet. Termimesh costs more than poison. A greywater system costs more than linking straight into the sewer. A rainwater tank costs more than a sump. Timber window frames cost more than aluminium. I could go on ad nauseum... I designed my sister-in-laws house recently, and I specified reverse-brick-veneer walls, which have pretty much ultimate thermal performance. The cost is about $10 to $15K over conventional double brick. How many buyers are prepared to pay that for something you can't even see? and i think that last sentence of yours isn't quite correct anyway - the ostentatious brigade don't give a shit, & they evidently(?) comprise a fair segment of that market, _if_ the market is genuinely supplying what people "want". There are lots of builders who don't target the "ostentatious" end of the market. A quick flick through the weekend paper shows that the majority of builders are targeting something a bit above the "first home builder" (a vanishing species) but certainly not ostentatious. Pretty plain actually. there should be more in the middle - not a granny flat or weekender, but not an ostentatious piece of rubbish which takes several hours just to vacuum. and that's all i'm saying :-) you'll have seen yourself there's just a gap in that middle section of the market. No, I don't really. Are you talking kit homes here or project homes? I see a shortage of houses that have real design flair, that look a bit different from the other houses in the street, that use unconventional materials, or that include serious environmental modifications as standard. In short, the market is depressingly conservative. But there are lots of houses of around 150sqm or less which are modest in appearance and function. .... actually, I think the kit home market is generally better than the project home market in most of these respects. Much of the passive design involves correctly orienting the house on the site. Most builders will let you move windows and modify window size at little cost, and passive design largely involves relatively minor customisation to suit the house orientation. one should not have to customise to fix designers' ignorance or mistakes. it is they who should be making as good a product as possible, because that's (supposed to be) their job. Passive solar design revolves around designing to suit the site and climate. You can't design a passive solar house without knowing where it is going to be located and which direction it is going to face. So there is always going to be a certain amount of customisation to make it happen. The problem is particularly tricky for kit home builders, who might ship one house to far north queensland and the next to southern victoria. |
Re Water Restrictions
no, that would be a bit much.... we ended up with a solar-powered glorified shed, which i'm doing up (as necessary) with 2nd hand stuff, but it's a bit of a struggle -i've discovered none of the rooms are actually squared :-). we have to save up for improvements to the power because we need to run the generator for a few hours every day, which is absurd, but there's no other choice (as you've probably discovered from your dad, you can't let the batteries run right down). which, naturally, led to dh fantasising about building a straw-bale house - never mind how to power it. by the time i finish with this one, i'm NOT LEAVING!! i can't seem to make him understand that, though ;-) at any rate, we're all set to be the first on the road with a wind turbine too. the joneses, we _are_! lol. kylie Lol I lived a large part of my childhood in a small solar powered glorified shed. If you'd like I could put you in touch with my parents; they have a lot of contacts and knowledge about everything alternative building wise; it wasn't lack of time or ability on dad's part but lack of money so they are experts at doing stuff with recycled materials!! He did all the solar himself so he would even know/know of someone who did about stuff you migth need/where to get 2nd hand stuff. Anyway let me know if you want his email :) |
Re Water Restrictions
wrote in message
ups.com... Something like this perhaps? http://www.ezyhomes.com.au/images/ou...Floor-Plan.jpg no. not like that. or this: http://www.beachlifehomes.com.au/kit...kitplans_id=55 no. not like that either. I see lots of designs in this range. I see an awful lot of "home theatres" as well, but apparently lots of people want those. "environmentally sound" does not equal "ridiculously expensive" (nor even "more expensive") It definitely equals "more expensive" (at least in up front cost). evidently you have no idea how cheap strawbale or onsite stone houses are, or houses built from 2nd hand materials, or houses built into the earth, (etc), if you are sticking to this line. i'm not comparing a daddy mcmansion to a baby mcmansion, i'm comparing houses all around. and since the instant-house industry hasn't got enough to offer that is suitable from both points of view, there you are. i didn't claim there weren't ANY. i said there are not ENOUGH and there aren't enough. Any insulation is going to cost more than no insulation. ffs, even my glorified shed has insulation. Larger eaves cost more than "tuscan" eaves. Timber or tile floors you're not, of course, claiming that _ceramic_ tile is helpful in terms of saving energy, are you. cost more than carpet. Termimesh costs more than poison. A greywater system costs more than linking straight into the sewer. A rainwater tank costs more than a sump. Timber window frames cost more than aluminium. I could go on ad nauseum... obviously. i've answered that. 2nd hand timber windows are worth the relatively small amount you pay compared to new aluminium. not everyone needs consider termites, and termimesh and poison are not the only two options. greywater planned into the system is NOT "more" expensive unless such a thing is not allowed for in the first instance, when it should be anyway, of course. we're not on the sewerage system at all so the greywater system is fabulously simple and would only have cost the same as sending it somewhere else anyway, and everyone can make the choice of where to send their greywater if they're building from scratch. and so on. if a project or kit home doesn't make allowance for greywater recycling, then magically it will cost more to "add" something that's not there, eh? don't you think there should be the odd mandated feature that's just standard? and reduce costs elsewhere on things that are simply a waste. I designed my sister-in-laws house recently, hence your interest, i take it. /rolls eyes and I specified reverse-brick-veneer walls, which have pretty much ultimate thermal performance. The cost is about $10 to $15K over conventional double brick. How many buyers are prepared to pay that for something you can't even see? well, why don't you tell me? i would pay extra for something that saves extra, because it would save much more than that in the long run. (snip) that's all i'm saying :-) you'll have seen yourself there's just a gap in that middle section of the market. No, I don't really. Are you talking kit homes here or project homes? kits mostly, but both applies. I see a shortage of houses that have real design flair, that look a bit different from the other houses in the street, that use unconventional materials, or that include serious environmental modifications as standard. In short, the market is depressingly conservative. But there are lots of houses of around 150sqm or less which are modest in appearance and function. well, obviously, as well as that, there are other requirements. modesty's no good if the house is a toxin-exuding energy-wasting piece of shit that will fall down in 20 years. but don't mind me - i didn't do months of research on this or anything, i just felt like saying that, so i did. aren't i wacky? Passive solar design revolves around designing to suit the site and climate. You can't design a passive solar house without knowing where it is going to be located and which direction it is going to face. (snip) passive solar needs to work on orientation towards the north or it doesn't happen, i think some basic plans are well possible, don't you? equally, the plethora of bad kit & project home designs that are entirely unsuitable in materials and general layout, for virtually anywhere, almost defies belief. i maintain that this is both extremely common and very unfortunate, and you can think what you like. how's that? |
Re Water Restrictions
"meeee" wrote in message
... this one, i'm NOT LEAVING!! i can't seem to make him understand that, though ;-) at any rate, we're all set to be the first on the road with a wind turbine too. the joneses, we _are_! lol. kylie Lol I lived a large part of my childhood in a small solar powered glorified shed. If you'd like I could put you in touch with my parents; they have a lot of contacts and knowledge about everything alternative building wise; it wasn't lack of time or ability on dad's part but lack of money so they are experts at doing stuff with recycled materials!! He did all the solar himself so he would even know/know of someone who did about stuff you migth need/where to get 2nd hand stuff. Anyway let me know if you want his email that is lovely of you! i think i might feel shy ;-) are your parents in qld too? because a lot of this sort of thing is about finding local sources; we're in nsw southern tablelands, which is pretty good for this sort of thing, it seems. there are some fabby places in canberra for used stuff, it's bliss. (yet when i lived there, i could NOT get out fast enough, lol). there is a solar person in town (who gave us a quote when he eventually got round to it after we phoned/went in a number of times - a telling point in itself) but the whole thing is really bothering me. firstly, his quote is outrageous, considering we aren't starting from scratch. when dh let him know (or rather, confessed ;-) he & his bestie are building a wind turbine, solar-dude said "oh, that will be a nice addition" and yet, best as anyone can work out, the turbine should be supplying a fair bit of energy, which i'd think would mean elements of his quote could be downgraded somewhat - but apparently not (HMMMM). i got the number of another person who operates in our area part-time & really want a 2nd opinion because my gut tells me going with the first guy just doesn't make sense. i think the first guy has, amongst other things, entirely misunderstood the situation & thinks we want to be able to run toasters and microwaves & multiple computers & whatnot all at once - yet he's been here & had the opportunity to notice we haven't the room nor the powerpoints for multiple appliances even if we did want to use them at all, OR all at once (which we don't). stuff like that. i'll see what the other fella says about it. my microwave & toaster were great, but, they're gone now & i don't even notice they're missing, so i think there's been an attitude or aspiration disconnection entirely! anyway. there you are! let me know how your parents feel about fielding emails from complete strangers :-) thanks for your help :-) kylie |
Re Water Restrictions
that is lovely of you! i think i might feel shy ;-) are your parents in qld too? because a lot of this sort of thing is about finding local sources; we're in nsw southern tablelands, which is pretty good for this sort of thing, it seems. there are some fabby places in canberra for used stuff, it's bliss. (yet when i lived there, i could NOT get out fast enough, lol). there is a solar person in town (who gave us a quote when he eventually got round to it after we phoned/went in a number of times - a telling point in itself) but the whole thing is really bothering me. firstly, his quote is outrageous, considering we aren't starting from scratch. when dh let him know (or rather, confessed ;-) he & his bestie are building a wind turbine, solar-dude said "oh, that will be a nice addition" and yet, best as anyone can work out, the turbine should be supplying a fair bit of energy, which i'd think would mean elements of his quote could be downgraded somewhat - but apparently not (HMMMM). i got the number of another person who operates in our area part-time & really want a 2nd opinion because my gut tells me going with the first guy just doesn't make sense. i think the first guy has, amongst other things, entirely misunderstood the situation & thinks we want to be able to run toasters and microwaves & multiple computers & whatnot all at once - yet he's been here & had the opportunity to notice we haven't the room nor the powerpoints for multiple appliances even if we did want to use them at all, OR all at once (which we don't). stuff like that. i'll see what the other fella says about it. my microwave & toaster were great, but, they're gone now & i don't even notice they're missing, so i think there's been an attitude or aspiration disconnection entirely! anyway. there you are! let me know how your parents feel about fielding emails from complete strangers :-) thanks for your help :-) kylie Lol my parents wouldnt mind at all, dad would love to help out as he knows how hard it is to break the mould and start out! When they moved out of the city to the country, no-one spoke to them for about 10 years as they were too 'weird' living in a shed and having goats etc....OMG why are they not slashing and burning their block and running cows? They're a bit odd...best stay away.....type of attitude!! Anyway they are in sthrn qld, I'm not sure what NSW contacts they have, although mum's family are in sydney, and were in canberra so on various trips down i seem to vaguely recall them doing some research at places on the way/in the cities themselves. My email is pacific underscore siamese at yahoo dot com dot au; if you email me I can give you their email/phone and send you what pics I have of their setup. Trust me, Dad is very friendly and loves to help with this kind of thing...and if you want to know obscure permacultureish gardening facts....my mum will talk your ear off!! Hopefully it will get her off mine...lol just joking. Anyway let me know!! |
Re Water Restrictions
0tterbot wrote:
no. not like that either. What is your objection to these houses? Three bedrooms, one bathroom, open plan living/dining/kitchen. Looks modest and functional to me. Your complaint was that kit builders only offered mcmansions with rumpus rooms. evidently you have no idea how cheap strawbale or onsite stone houses are, or houses built from 2nd hand materials, or houses built into the earth, (etc), if you are sticking to this line. Actually I know plenty about these things, but you were talking about kit homes, which generally means light, framed construction. Strawbale is much hyped, but the economic benefits are questionable: * high labour (make sure you include all the rendering in your estimates) * generally requires slab or strip footings, with associated termite issues * requires a lot more floor and roof. The walls are 600mm thick (vs less than 100mm for framed construction). This means that the slab area of a small house is significantly larger. For instance, a building 12x8m would need a slab and roof 22% larger if it were built in strawbale. Strawbale walls need larger roof overhangs to protect them from weather, making the problem worse * Most of the heat loss/gain in a house is through the roof and windows, so the very high insulative benefits of stawbale suffer from diminishing returns * Walls are usually not weight bearing, and you still need to frame around all your openings. You may actually end up using more timber or steel than you would if you built a framed house Stone masonry has it own problems, as do your other suggestions. you're not, of course, claiming that _ceramic_ tile is helpful in terms of saving energy, are you. The issue wasn't just energy. You said environmentally sound. To me that means eliminating outgass materials like laminex and synthetic carpets. Carpets are particularly nasty for people with allergies, even wool carpets. Alternatives include oiled timber, ceramic tile and oiled concrete. Oiled concrete is cheap but not very attractive (I know, because that is what we have, pending the money to install timber). The other options all cost more than cheap carpet. obviously. i've answered that. 2nd hand timber windows are worth the relatively small amount you pay compared to new aluminium I can't imagine that builders are going to start installing 2nd hand timber windows. The cost of reconditioning and installation would be prohibitive. Of course, if you are owner building this is an option, but then you are comparing apples with watermelons. . not everyone needs consider termites, and termimesh and poison are not the only two options. I realise this, I was just giving examples. My point was simply that these things cost money. Making your house more environmentally friendly increases the sticker price of the house. In some cases this may be offset by long term savings elsewhere. greywater planned into the system is NOT "more" expensive unless such a thing is not allowed for in the first instance, when it should be anyway, of course. we're not on the sewerage system at all so the greywater system is fabulously simple and would only have cost the same as sending it somewhere else anyway, and everyone can make the choice of where to send their greywater if they're building from scratch. Most people need a sewer connection anyway, so anything at all will be an additional cost. For instance, if you are not fortunate enough to have sufficient slope on your block, you may need a holding tank and pump. The pump is a significant expense. Should the builder factor in this cost for all customers, irrespective of whether they have a sloping block, or a garden at all for that matter? Don't you think there should be the odd mandated feature that's just standard? I do, and there are. 5 years ago there was no requirement to for ceiling insulation in WA. Now builders must install R2 insulation as a minimum. No doubt there is a lot more that can be done, but it is happening. I designed my sister-in-laws house recently, hence your interest, i take it. /rolls eyes Try not to be obnoxious. I am studying building design and expect to make a career change in the next year or two. I have taken an active interest in alternative house construction for decades. I love this stuff. well, obviously, as well as that, there are other requirements. modesty's no good if the house is a toxin-exuding energy-wasting piece of shit that will fall down in 20 years. but don't mind me - i didn't do months of research on this or anything, i just felt like saying that, so i did. aren't i wacky? I suspect that you didn't find a plan to suit you, and you are making the assumption that there is a huge hidden market consisting of people with exactly the same wants. I am not convinced. You say that the kit homes only sell mcmansions, so I show you some counter examples. You say my examples are too small, so I show you something between the two extremes. Then you start talking about strawbale and earth-sheltered housing. I think you just made an off-the-cuff statement and I read too much into it. passive solar needs to work on orientation towards the north or it doesn't happen, i think some basic plans are well possible, don't you? There is more to it than that. The eave overhangs need to be adjusted based on your latitude, for instance. And a house designed for winter solar gain won't work in tropical areas. And existing trees and new planting should be considered. You might have other needs that are in conflict with solar design principles which need to be considered. |
Re Water Restrictions
wrote in message
oups.com... 0tterbot wrote: no. not like that either. What is your objection to these houses? Three bedrooms, one bathroom, open plan living/dining/kitchen. Looks modest and functional to me. so? they're not what i'd pick if i was getting a house built from scratch. what was your point? that such things exist? i already know that. Your complaint was that kit builders only offered mcmansions with rumpus rooms. I DIDN'T. for the third time, and with different wording yet again in an effort to get the concept clear - there are not _enough_ modest houses on offer, comparitively. in the modest-house range, there is _very little_ choice compared to the mcmansion-like market (in particular). this is simply a _fact_. you can keep supplying plans for 2-3 bedroom kit houses until the cows come home, but they are well outnumbered, by my calculations, by the ostentatious-****** houses, and even by the granny-flat models. where they do exist, there is the further problem that most of them (regardless of size) don't offer as standard things which should be standard in 2006. Actually I know plenty about these things, but you were talking about kit homes, which generally means light, framed construction. sigh. think about why a person would be researching kit homes. it's either because a: they're a kit home freak & they're amassing a collection, or b: because they are inclining towards buying property with no house already in place. in the latter case (much more common ime) such a person (for example, me) has to think about, and research, their options. ONE option of several is to buy a kit home. i did not state i was keen on getting a kit home in & of itself. i merely remarked that i had been researching them for reasons now irrelevent (i.e. the property we bought has houses already - so the kit thing became a non-issue overnight). therefore, at that time, i had to consider _everything_ from living in a caravan, to buying a kit home, to buying a big shed, several converted containers, building a house from scratch ourselves (while living in shed/caravan/what have you) and so on. the kit idea was one of many, but it was also one where i could look at LOTS of different stuff being offered. Strawbale is much hyped, but the economic benefits are questionable: (snip) Stone masonry has it own problems, as do your other suggestions. everything has problems. nothing is perfect. everything is done on balance. one has to decide what's best for the particular situation. you're not, of course, claiming that _ceramic_ tile is helpful in terms of saving energy, are you. The issue wasn't just energy. You said environmentally sound. To me that means eliminating outgass materials like laminex and synthetic carpets. Carpets are particularly nasty for people with allergies, even wool carpets. Alternatives include oiled timber, ceramic tile and oiled concrete. Oiled concrete is cheap but not very attractive (I know, because that is what we have, pending the money to install timber). The other options all cost more than cheap carpet. ceramic tile for living areas is an abysmal idea from every imaginable angle & like you, i KNOW the hard way & cannot imagine anyone suggesting it tbh. laminex & synthetic carpets are irrelevent. other flooring types include slate, earth, seagrass and similar, and so on. and again, nothing's perfect & everything has it's problems, but that's no reason to suggest ceramic tile, quite frankly. I can't imagine that builders are going to start installing 2nd hand timber windows. The cost of reconditioning and installation would be prohibitive. Of course, if you are owner building this is an option, but then you are comparing apples with watermelons. i'm not. i'm talking about my own situation, if you would stop & read what is there. i have every intention of installing 2nd hand timber windows in the house i have. making blithe statements about this & that may be pertinent to _you_, but since you've evidently misunderstood not only what i originally said but also why i said it, i don't think there's any need to lecture anyone on what is prohibitively expensive. the circumstance is totally different. I realise this, I was just giving examples. My point was simply that these things cost money. Making your house more environmentally friendly increases the sticker price of the house. In some cases this may be offset by long term savings elsewhere. no doubt, but i assure you i'm doing a makeover on this house that's as cheap as chips, so frankly, i'm not wrong. you are not considering all the possibilities, but i am. shrug so i say, and i know, that making one's house more environmentally friendly is NOT more expensive. rather, less. a similar, yet different, issue to making horrendous kit homes more environmentally friendly and for a better price, but there you have it. what you lose on the swings you save on the roundabouts, as we all know. if 90% of kit home manufacturers don't want to rethink what they are doing, i can't do anything about that. but they will rethink eventually, because "cost" can be many things, & anyway, they'll have to. (snip) No doubt there is a lot more that can be done, but it is happening. quite frankly, it's going to have to happen a whole lot faster, as this is an explosive issue. everything has changed. you are thinking about the status quo of a year ago (it seems) but you're going to have to think ahead. Try not to be obnoxious. under the circumstances, it's somewhat of a struggle. it is not unreasonable to be frustrated when someone won't just read what you said for what it is. I am studying building design and expect to make a career change in the next year or two. I have taken an active interest in alternative house construction for decades. I love this stuff. i'm really not getting the impression that you are understanding what i am saying. somehting for you to take on board for your future career, perhaps. I suspect that you didn't find a plan to suit you, i didn't, although i may have found one eventually had it been needed after all, or (more to the point) i would have eventually had this segment of the kit market been bigger, don't you think? if i get to choose a house from scratch, i'm going to want things which i'm happy without in a house which already exists. i'm sure that makes sense. if i get to pick my layout, it's going to have to be a great layout for us. if i don't get to pick after all, big deal - i'll live. and you are making the assumption that there is a huge hidden market consisting of people with exactly the same wants. don't know where you got that from. i was bitching from my own perspective only. i suspect (but don't assume) there's an unfulfilled market of some kind, for modest & more responsible & less ugly kits that isn't being broadly fulfilled atm - those people make other arrangements that don't involve unimaginative kit manufacturers, don't they, just like i would have. I am not convinced. You say that the kit homes only sell mcmansions, so I show you some counter examples. You say my examples are too small, so I show you something between the two extremes. Then you start talking about strawbale and earth-sheltered housing. i hope you understand now that you missed the initial point. land with no house = looking at all possibilities in order to supply a suitable house at a suitable price. i was looking for a house or what to do about a house, not for a kit in particular. I think you just made an off-the-cuff statement and I read too much into it. do you think so? There is more to it than that. and yet, in many ways, there's less to it than that. since kits come in variable standards, it's my opinion that the initial standard should be lifted (and yes, this is a different issue to price/size) in order to allow for any variations that need to be applied for the site. but there's a basic standard and range of things if a house is to be solar passive. the rest is stuff that you cheerfully inform me can all be changed anyway, which i knew, while allowing that it is hardly the job of the _buyer_ to be _improving_ the seller's product. the buyer should only be choosing from options which work better for them personally, and their property and location. and there you have it! The eave overhangs need to be adjusted based on your latitude, for instance. And a house designed for winter solar gain won't work in tropical areas. And existing trees and new planting should be considered. You might have other needs that are in conflict with solar design principles which need to be considered. |
Re Water Restrictions
We live in Melbourne and had our house placed with large windows to the
north. We have insulation in the ceiling and walls, also had brown ceramic tiles on most of the floors. In winter the sun shines most of the way across the room, heating the floor which keeps the room warm for hours after sunset. (provided there is sunshine). In summer the eaves block most of the sun, we have trees which cast shadows as well. The next thing is to make exterior blinds of shade cloth for the in between times ( autumn). This system works quite well. Marie "0tterbot" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... 0tterbot wrote: no. not like that either. What is your objection to these houses? Three bedrooms, one bathroom, open plan living/dining/kitchen. Looks modest and functional to me. so? they're not what i'd pick if i was getting a house built from scratch. what was your point? that such things exist? i already know that. Your complaint was that kit builders only offered mcmansions with rumpus rooms. I DIDN'T. for the third time, and with different wording yet again in an effort to get the concept clear - there are not _enough_ modest houses on offer, comparitively. in the modest-house range, there is _very little_ choice compared to the mcmansion-like market (in particular). this is simply a _fact_. you can keep supplying plans for 2-3 bedroom kit houses until the cows come home, but they are well outnumbered, by my calculations, by the ostentatious-****** houses, and even by the granny-flat models. where they do exist, there is the further problem that most of them (regardless of size) don't offer as standard things which should be standard in 2006. Actually I know plenty about these things, but you were talking about kit homes, which generally means light, framed construction. sigh. think about why a person would be researching kit homes. it's either because a: they're a kit home freak & they're amassing a collection, or b: because they are inclining towards buying property with no house already in place. in the latter case (much more common ime) such a person (for example, me) has to think about, and research, their options. ONE option of several is to buy a kit home. i did not state i was keen on getting a kit home in & of itself. i merely remarked that i had been researching them for reasons now irrelevent (i.e. the property we bought has houses already - so the kit thing became a non-issue overnight). therefore, at that time, i had to consider _everything_ from living in a caravan, to buying a kit home, to buying a big shed, several converted containers, building a house from scratch ourselves (while living in shed/caravan/what have you) and so on. the kit idea was one of many, but it was also one where i could look at LOTS of different stuff being offered. Strawbale is much hyped, but the economic benefits are questionable: (snip) Stone masonry has it own problems, as do your other suggestions. everything has problems. nothing is perfect. everything is done on balance. one has to decide what's best for the particular situation. you're not, of course, claiming that _ceramic_ tile is helpful in terms of saving energy, are you. The issue wasn't just energy. You said environmentally sound. To me that means eliminating outgass materials like laminex and synthetic carpets. Carpets are particularly nasty for people with allergies, even wool carpets. Alternatives include oiled timber, ceramic tile and oiled concrete. Oiled concrete is cheap but not very attractive (I know, because that is what we have, pending the money to install timber). The other options all cost more than cheap carpet. ceramic tile for living areas is an abysmal idea from every imaginable angle & like you, i KNOW the hard way & cannot imagine anyone suggesting it tbh. laminex & synthetic carpets are irrelevent. other flooring types include slate, earth, seagrass and similar, and so on. and again, nothing's perfect & everything has it's problems, but that's no reason to suggest ceramic tile, quite frankly. I can't imagine that builders are going to start installing 2nd hand timber windows. The cost of reconditioning and installation would be prohibitive. Of course, if you are owner building this is an option, but then you are comparing apples with watermelons. i'm not. i'm talking about my own situation, if you would stop & read what is there. i have every intention of installing 2nd hand timber windows in the house i have. making blithe statements about this & that may be pertinent to _you_, but since you've evidently misunderstood not only what i originally said but also why i said it, i don't think there's any need to lecture anyone on what is prohibitively expensive. the circumstance is totally different. I realise this, I was just giving examples. My point was simply that these things cost money. Making your house more environmentally friendly increases the sticker price of the house. In some cases this may be offset by long term savings elsewhere. no doubt, but i assure you i'm doing a makeover on this house that's as cheap as chips, so frankly, i'm not wrong. you are not considering all the possibilities, but i am. shrug so i say, and i know, that making one's house more environmentally friendly is NOT more expensive. rather, less. a similar, yet different, issue to making horrendous kit homes more environmentally friendly and for a better price, but there you have it. what you lose on the swings you save on the roundabouts, as we all know. if 90% of kit home manufacturers don't want to rethink what they are doing, i can't do anything about that. but they will rethink eventually, because "cost" can be many things, & anyway, they'll have to. (snip) No doubt there is a lot more that can be done, but it is happening. quite frankly, it's going to have to happen a whole lot faster, as this is an explosive issue. everything has changed. you are thinking about the status quo of a year ago (it seems) but you're going to have to think ahead. Try not to be obnoxious. under the circumstances, it's somewhat of a struggle. it is not unreasonable to be frustrated when someone won't just read what you said for what it is. I am studying building design and expect to make a career change in the next year or two. I have taken an active interest in alternative house construction for decades. I love this stuff. i'm really not getting the impression that you are understanding what i am saying. somehting for you to take on board for your future career, perhaps. I suspect that you didn't find a plan to suit you, i didn't, although i may have found one eventually had it been needed after all, or (more to the point) i would have eventually had this segment of the kit market been bigger, don't you think? if i get to choose a house from scratch, i'm going to want things which i'm happy without in a house which already exists. i'm sure that makes sense. if i get to pick my layout, it's going to have to be a great layout for us. if i don't get to pick after all, big deal - i'll live. and you are making the assumption that there is a huge hidden market consisting of people with exactly the same wants. don't know where you got that from. i was bitching from my own perspective only. i suspect (but don't assume) there's an unfulfilled market of some kind, for modest & more responsible & less ugly kits that isn't being broadly fulfilled atm - those people make other arrangements that don't involve unimaginative kit manufacturers, don't they, just like i would have. I am not convinced. You say that the kit homes only sell mcmansions, so I show you some counter examples. You say my examples are too small, so I show you something between the two extremes. Then you start talking about strawbale and earth-sheltered housing. i hope you understand now that you missed the initial point. land with no house = looking at all possibilities in order to supply a suitable house at a suitable price. i was looking for a house or what to do about a house, not for a kit in particular. I think you just made an off-the-cuff statement and I read too much into it. do you think so? There is more to it than that. and yet, in many ways, there's less to it than that. since kits come in variable standards, it's my opinion that the initial standard should be lifted (and yes, this is a different issue to price/size) in order to allow for any variations that need to be applied for the site. but there's a basic standard and range of things if a house is to be solar passive. the rest is stuff that you cheerfully inform me can all be changed anyway, which i knew, while allowing that it is hardly the job of the _buyer_ to be _improving_ the seller's product. the buyer should only be choosing from options which work better for them personally, and their property and location. and there you have it! The eave overhangs need to be adjusted based on your latitude, for instance. And a house designed for winter solar gain won't work in tropical areas. And existing trees and new planting should be considered. You might have other needs that are in conflict with solar design principles which need to be considered. |
Re Water Restrictions
0tterbot wrote:
wrote in message Your complaint was that kit builders only offered mcmansions with rumpus rooms. I DIDN'T. for the third time, and with different wording yet again in an effort to get the concept clear - there are not _enough_ modest houses on offer, comparitively. in the modest-house range, there is _very little_ choice compared to the mcmansion-like market (in particular). Earlier in the conversation you said the following: we were looking at what sorts of kit homes etc one could buy. snip most of the companies had these horrific monstrosities out the wazoo & only a few small, nice ones snip by "small" or "modest" or whatever i said, i meant, "has three bedrooms (or two BIG bedrooms, like a proper old-fashioned house), but no "rumpus room" as big as a football field, or "parent's retreat" or any of that crap they come up with These were the statements I was responding to. In my experience there are plenty of modest designs around. That doesn't mean that plenty of modest houses get *built*, but most builders (and especially kit home builders) give a fair share of their design space to houses in the above range. It isn't the builders' fault if their customers are only interested in mcmansions. ceramic tile for living areas is an abysmal idea from every imaginable angle I lived in a house with ceramic tile floors for 16 years and loved it. It has much to recommend it. /rolls eyes Try not to be obnoxious. under the circumstances, it's somewhat of a struggle. it is not unreasonable to be frustrated when someone won't just read what you said for what it is. You say so much, and it just seems to go off in every possible direction. One minute you are talking about the size of kit homes, then you are waxing lyrical about how cheap (!) strawbale and stone houses are. We have a communication problem, but I don't think it is my end. At any rate, this doesn't seem to have much to do with gardening. |
Re Water Restrictions
wrote in message
ps.com... Earlier in the conversation you said the following: we were looking at what sorts of kit homes etc one could buy. snip here is the part you want: most of the companies had these horrific monstrosities out the wazoo & only a few small, nice ones and there you are. (snip) These were the statements I was responding to. In my experience there are plenty of modest designs around. That doesn't mean that plenty of modest houses get *built*, but most builders (and especially kit home builders) give a fair share of their design space to houses in the above range. It isn't the builders' fault if their customers are only interested in mcmansions. i'm really not sure what gets built - i was operating entirely on what was presented as options to the would-be buyer, that i was able to track down personally, prior to ditching the idea altogether. At any rate, this doesn't seem to have much to do with gardening. what about the way one can use a lattice with a decidous vine on the western side of a house for heat-proofing in summer? :-) i'm interested in the ways we can rescue houses to make them more pleasant & comfortable, at little or no cost, which were erected unthoughtfully in the first instance. i concur it has nothing to do with kit homes - thank god - upon which you were hyperfocussing, when i originally brought it up in terms of "no house here, what to do?" (kits being but one option of many). but housing & gardens _are_ interrelated subjects. this one's done it's dash, though. kylie |
Re Water Restrictions
"meeee" wrote in message
... Lol my parents wouldnt mind at all, dad would love to help out as he knows how hard it is to break the mould and start out! When they moved out of the city to the country, no-one spoke to them for about 10 years as they were too 'weird' living in a shed and having goats etc....OMG why are they not slashing and burning their block and running cows? They're a bit odd...best stay away.....type of attitude!! we actually thought of that sort of thing in advance (many country towns are very, erm, homogenous), & picked a town where there's such a variety of weirdos of all sorts there was no way we're going to stand out g. i think we're the least "conservative"(?) family on our road, but regardless, even the old-fashioned types around here are fairly open-minded & don't seem to want to rush to judge anyone (not to their faces, anyway ;-) anyway, i'll send you an email shortly, & we'll see how we go. thanks! kylie |
Re Water Restrictions
"0tterbot" wrote in message ... "meeee" wrote in message ... Lol my parents wouldnt mind at all, dad would love to help out as he knows how hard it is to break the mould and start out! When they moved out of the city to the country, no-one spoke to them for about 10 years as they were too 'weird' living in a shed and having goats etc....OMG why are they not slashing and burning their block and running cows? They're a bit odd...best stay away.....type of attitude!! we actually thought of that sort of thing in advance (many country towns are very, erm, homogenous), & picked a town where there's such a variety of weirdos of all sorts there was no way we're going to stand out g. i think we're the least "conservative"(?) family on our road, but regardless, even the old-fashioned types around here are fairly open-minded & don't seem to want to rush to judge anyone (not to their faces, anyway ;-) anyway, i'll send you an email shortly, & we'll see how we go. thanks! kylie Sounds like you did very well...mum and dad's district was the largest voting for one nation district.....lol! TTYL! |
Re Water Restrictions
"HC" wrote in message ... | I'm in NSW and when I bought this house 14 years ago asked the local | council about fitting a water tank because I had been living out of town | and had water tanks for many years......the council (in their infinite | wisdom) refused permission to fit a tank stating it was against their | policy. Of course, I didn't tell them I wanted the water tank to supply | drinking water, because I'd had prior warning that they were totally | against this and any collected water was to be for garden use only. | | Now.....it's compulsory to fit a water tank to any new houses. | | How their thinking changes??? LOL Sometimes the lack of a backbone can cause this abnormality of the mind. :-) |
Re Water Restrictions
Andy wrote:
"HC" wrote in message ... | I'm in NSW and when I bought this house 14 years ago asked the local | council about fitting a water tank because I had been living out of town | and had water tanks for many years......the council (in their infinite | wisdom) refused permission to fit a tank stating it was against their | policy. Of course, I didn't tell them I wanted the water tank to supply | drinking water, because I'd had prior warning that they were totally | against this and any collected water was to be for garden use only. | | Now.....it's compulsory to fit a water tank to any new houses. | | How their thinking changes??? LOL Sometimes the lack of a backbone can cause this abnormality of the mind. :-) Yeah and the fact they might loose out on revenue.. Thats how far their backbone extends, and if you look closely, there is the place to kick. em. Then they will charge you for harvesting rainwater that would have run off if you hadnt put the tank there. Same as dams... |
Re Water Restrictions
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