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[IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil
Hi,
I have 6 realy nice and huge yamadori I am going to make and I want to pot them in fast growing soil. For this I want to use a non-organic soil, using fertilizer cake and water with fish emulsion. I don't mind watering 3 times a day. Like in this post: http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 ..0/ Here in Canada I can't find any pumice, haydite. I have this: - Hard Akadama (double line brand) - Turface - River sand - Virginia pine bark (wich I won't use for my non-organic soil) What do you suggest? I could get perlite. Maybe I could get black lava rock. but with difficulties. Thank you, Michel ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Mon Ami:
If you want a source for haydite, contact http://www.youkoubonsai.com/ and tell Keith I sent you. However, the mix that you are suggesting, Hard Akadama (double line brand), Turface, River sand, and Virginia pine bark should be fine. Equal parts of each should work well. If you are going to use this mix with fertilizer cakes, be certain to lightly rake the surface of the root pad once every 2-3 weeks to ensure water penetration. I would suggest that you not use lava stone or perlite for bonsai culture. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob -----Original Message----- From: Michel Bourgeois To: Sent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:50:06 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Hi, I have 6 realy nice and huge yamadori I am going to make and I want to pot them in fast growing soil. For this I want to use a non-organic soil, using fertilizer cake and water with fish emulsion. I don't mind watering 3 times a day. Like in this post: http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 ..0/ Here in Canada I can't find any pumice, haydite. I have this: - Hard Akadama (double line brand) - Turface - River sand - Virginia pine bark (wich I won't use for my non-organic soil) What do you suggest? I could get perlite. Maybe I could get black lava rock. but with difficulties. Thank you, Michel ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Hi,
While you're discussing soil, I wonder what you would think about using Oil Dri in a bonsai mix. I read somewhere somebody recommended it. Also, what sand is appropriate? I've only found "all-purpose" sand at hardware stores. I thought I would need something fairly coarse. Thanks, Steve Philadelphia, Pa On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 10:23AM, Michael Persiano wrote: Mon Ami: If you want a source for haydite, contact http://www.youkoubonsai.com/ and tell Keith I sent you. However, the mix that you are suggesting, Hard Akadama (double line brand), Turface, River sand, and Virginia pine bark should be fine. Equal parts of each should work well. If you are going to use this mix with fertilizer cakes, be certain to lightly rake the surface of the root pad once every 2-3 weeks to ensure water penetration. I would suggest that you not use lava stone or perlite for bonsai culture. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob -----Original Message----- From: Michel Bourgeois To: Sent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:50:06 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Hi, I have 6 realy nice and huge yamadori I am going to make and I want to pot them in fast growing soil. For this I want to use a non-organic soil, using fertilizer cake and water with fish emulsion. I don't mind watering 3 times a day. Like in this post: http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 .0/ Here in Canada I can't find any pumice, haydite. I have this: - Hard Akadama (double line brand) - Turface - River sand - Virginia pine bark (wich I won't use for my non-organic soil) What do you suggest? I could get perlite. Maybe I could get black lava rock. but with difficulties. Thank you, Michel ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Steven Peterson wrote:
Hi, While you're discussing soil, I wonder what you would think about using Oil Dri in a bonsai mix. I read somewhere somebody recommended it. Many folks use Oil Dri; I've heard reports that it (like some Kitty Litters) is of mixed quality and that some of it turns into goo on occasion. Also, what sand is appropriate? I've only found "all-purpose" sand at hardware stores. I thought I would need something fairly coarse. Coarse sand blasting sand is OK. Swimming pool filter sand in the coarser sizes (if you can find it these days) also works. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Michael Persiano wrote:
River sand, and Virginia pine bark should be fine. Equal parts of each should work well. If you are going to use this mix with fertilizer cakes, be certain to lightly rake the surface of the root pad once every 2-3 weeks to ensure water penetration. I would suggest that you not use lava stone or perlite for bonsai culture. Hi Michael may I ask why not to use lava stone ? what do you mean by lava stone, the light floating pumice or the pouzzolane that is more coarse and heavy ? thanks |
Michael:
Should I use pine bark? Because I don't want any organic in the soil... so if you tell me to use barks there certainly a good raison. Thank you, Michel Michael Persiano wrote: River sand, and Virginia pine bark should be fine. Equal parts of each should work well. If you are going to use this mix with fertilizer cakes, be certain to lightly rake the surface of the root pad once every 2-3 weeks to ensure water penetration. I would suggest that you not use lava stone or perlite for bonsai culture. Hi Michael may I ask why not to use lava stone ? what do you mean by lava stone, the light floating pumice or the pouzzolane that is more coarse and heavy ? thanks ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On Sep 27, 2005, at 3:13 PM, Michael Persiano wrote:
I have had many individuals bring me trees with root zone problems related to the "fines" in lava stone-based soil mixes. The "fines" seem to create drainage problems. For this reason, I am not an advocate of the reddish lava stone mixes that I have seen. Red (or, less commonly, brown, or black) lava is a common ingredient in bonsai soils used in Northern California. I agree that the fines will cause problems, but once they are screened out or washed away, the stone doesn't break down further. ( I use a hose & nozzle to spray my 5/16 lava over a screen, one shovel full at a time. Jim ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Michael,
I'm not sure what sort of lava-stone based mixes you have seen, but I and most others around here use the red lava rock as our primary soil ingredient. Once it has been screened, as one must do with most soil mix ingredients, it has no more fines than anything else. The remaining fines are a function of the size of screen one uses. I find red lava rock to be a quite satisfactory soil component, whether used straight, or in combination with other ingredients. Regards, Roger Snipes Spokane, WA. USA. Zone 5-ish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Persiano" I have had many individuals bring me trees with root zone problems related to the "fines" in lava stone-based soil mixes. The "fines" seem to create drainage problems. For this reason, I am not an advocate of the reddish lava stone mixes that I have seen. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
In a message dated 9/27/2005 6:38:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: Michael: Should I use pine bark? Because I don't want any organic in the soil... so if you tell me to use barks there certainly a good raison. Thank you, Michel Michel: I would consider using organic content, such as bark. Organics provide a continuous supply of nutrients OVER TIME. They serve as a source of nitrogen and trace elements, and, in the case of bonsai culture, contribute to the soil structure. However, if you decide not to use bark, I suggest that you add some organic content in the form of fertilizer cakes to ensure a constant, so release of nutrients to your bonsai. In addition, consider adding frequent feedings of a chemical fertilizer (20-20-20) to push growth with immature specimens, i.e., those that have yet to achieve your design objectives. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
In a message dated 9/27/2005 9:15:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: I use a hose & nozzle to spray my 5/16 lava over a screen, one shovel full at a time. Jim Jim: As mentioned, I have been on the receiving end of bonsai that have suffered as a result of not removing the fines. I yield to your experience in CA. I would add that growing trees in the northeastern US can present additional challenges, particularly if the soil does not nearly dry out on a daily basis during the growing season. For this reason, I always suggest that practitioners consult local bonsai clubs to determine what soil mixes work best in their particular areas. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
In a message dated 9/27/2005 9:51:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: Michael, I'm not sure what sort of lava-stone based mixes you have seen, but I and most others around here use the red lava rock as our primary soil ingredient. Once it has been screened, as one must do with most soil mix ingredients, it has no more fines than anything else. The remaining fines are a function of the size of screen one uses. I find red lava rock to be a quite satisfactory soil component, whether used straight, or in combination with other ingredients. Regards, Roger Snipes Spokane, WA. USA. Zone 5-ish Soil composition and soil appearance are critical factors for me. Turface, bark, haydite, and coarse sand are used with all of my trees with the exception of my Japanese Pines, which are potted in pure soft Akadama. All soils are screened prior to potting. As stated, I have only seen the bad side of using unscreened lava stone. As for soil appearance, my preference is to use more neutral soil colors for inclusion in my bonsai photography for books and magazines. This is not at all related to soil function. Those of you who use lava stone successfully should stay with what works for you in your own environments. If it works, don't fix it. );-) Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Michael Persiano wrote:
Hi Michael Tiziano: I have had many individuals bring me trees with root zone problems related to the "fines" in lava stone-based soil mixes. The "fines" seem to create drainage problems. rught in fact for yamadory some people of teh Vesuvio region use *dirty lava* that is mived with dust and so on and use in well drained containers otherwise has to be sifted exactly as Akadama For this reason, I am not an advocate of the reddish lava stone mixes that I have seen. well in Italy and france as have some problems with aka prices and imports , I personally realize that aka even best quality. because of our climate needs to be watered more often than usual and has a tendency to brittle and become dusty I have not used or seen possolana, but I understand that it is chestnut to gray in color, porous, and fast draining. right I use 4-5 mm grade and feel very happy as I can rececle it after having washed and sterilized http://www.agricola2000.it/ small pic on the right This sounds like it might be a good component for soil mixes. well I appreciate a lot as coarse good retenmtion /release and aeration of the soils and in mix with sequoia bark is fine best regards Tiziano THEO Chiunque puo diventare con la pratica Maestro in Qualsiasi Cosa A.B Dixit http://groups.google.it/group/free.it.arte.bonsai http://www.easybonsai.altervista.org/ |
Oups!
I have looked this morning in Bonsai Today no. 88 about river sans and I understand than this is not river sand than I have but regular sand. So, it is heavier. Is there a chance it will crush, because of the wait? I hate being Canadian!!! I can't find any real river sand, pumice or haydite in this big hole!!! (Sorry, I just took 2 coffees this morning... I think I need 2 extras! Lol) Example?: I will pay my cottonseed 18us$ and it will cost me 40us$ shipping!!! Michel -----Message d'origine----- De*: Internet Bonsai Club ] De la part de Michael Persiano Envoyé*: 27 septembre 2005 13:23 À*: Objet*: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Mon Ami: If you want a source for haydite, contact http://www.youkoubonsai.com/ and tell Keith I sent you. However, the mix that you are suggesting, Hard Akadama (double line brand), Turface, River sand, and Virginia pine bark should be fine. Equal parts of each should work well. If you are going to use this mix with fertilizer cakes, be certain to lightly rake the surface of the root pad once every 2-3 weeks to ensure water penetration. I would suggest that you not use lava stone or perlite for bonsai culture. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob -----Original Message----- From: Michel Bourgeois To: Sent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:50:06 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Hi, I have 6 realy nice and huge yamadori I am going to make and I want to pot them in fast growing soil. For this I want to use a non-organic soil, using fertilizer cake and water with fish emulsion. I don't mind watering 3 times a day. Like in this post: http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 ..0/ Here in Canada I can't find any pumice, haydite. I have this: - Hard Akadama (double line brand) - Turface - River sand - Virginia pine bark (wich I won't use for my non-organic soil) What do you suggest? I could get perlite. Maybe I could get black lava rock. but with difficulties. Thank you, Michel ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Hi All,
I recently purchased an azalea, a japanese holly, and a chinese elm from nurseries. They are still in their nursery pots. I'm assuming that I shouldn't repot until spring, but what should I do with them until then? Should I plant them in my garden? If so, would it help to make a plastic tent to protect them for the coldest nights? I think I want the holly and azalea to thicken a bit, so planting may be best, but I may the elm I may want to pot in the spring. Will it survive in a shed over the winter? Thanks, Steve Philadelphia, Pa ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Michel and everyone else watching this thread - Please don't fuss so much.
One of the best bonsai growers I know uses only builder's sand and peat. His trees are very healthy. Another well known grower uses garden soil! He manages the largest bonsai nursery in Germany. What do I use? A blend of inorganic pebbles, baked clay, decomposed granite and pelletized fertilizer. This combo requires frequent watering because the water flows right through it. I NEVER get root rot. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Bourgeois" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Oups! I have looked this morning in Bonsai Today no. 88 about river sans and I understand than this is not river sand than I have but regular sand. So, it is heavier. Is there a chance it will crush, because of the wait? I hate being Canadian!!! I can't find any real river sand, pumice or haydite in this big hole!!! (Sorry, I just took 2 coffees this morning... I think I need 2 extras! Lol) Example?: I will pay my cottonseed 18us$ and it will cost me 40us$ shipping!!! Michel -----Message d'origine----- De : Internet Bonsai Club ] De la part de Michael Persiano Envoyé : 27 septembre 2005 13:23 À : Objet : [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Mon Ami: If you want a source for haydite, contact http://www.youkoubonsai.com/ and tell Keith I sent you. However, the mix that you are suggesting, Hard Akadama (double line brand), Turface, River sand, and Virginia pine bark should be fine. Equal parts of each should work well. If you are going to use this mix with fertilizer cakes, be certain to lightly rake the surface of the root pad once every 2-3 weeks to ensure water penetration. I would suggest that you not use lava stone or perlite for bonsai culture. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob -----Original Message----- From: Michel Bourgeois To: Sent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:50:06 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Hi, I have 6 realy nice and huge yamadori I am going to make and I want to pot them in fast growing soil. For this I want to use a non-organic soil, using fertilizer cake and water with fish emulsion. I don't mind watering 3 times a day. Like in this post: http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 ..0/ Here in Canada I can't find any pumice, haydite. I have this: - Hard Akadama (double line brand) - Turface - River sand - Virginia pine bark (wich I won't use for my non-organic soil) What do you suggest? I could get perlite. Maybe I could get black lava rock. but with difficulties. Thank you, Michel ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Marty makes a good point. If it works, do not fix it.
Yet, I would underscore the importance of understanding your growing environment and species in the context of your soil selections, i.e., 1. Seasonal behavior (dry, rainy, sunny, overcast, etc.) 2. Watering habits and method (can, drip system, can waterer, hosed, etc.) 3. Species of trees (water loving, prefers drier soil, etc.) 4. Position (full sun, indirect sunlight, shade) With respect to the use of garden soil, I do not know what that means. );-) Is it sandy, clay, loam, bark rich, inorganic component rich, etc.? My "garden soil" is clay. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob -----Original Message----- From: Marty Haber To: Sent: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:18:54 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Michel and everyone else watching this thread - Please don't fuss so much. One of the best bonsai growers I know uses only builder's sand and peat. His trees are very healthy. Another well known grower uses garden soil! He manages the largest bonsai nursery in Germany. What do I use? A blend of inorganic pebbles, baked clay, decomposed granite and pelletized fertilizer. This combo requires frequent watering because the water flows right through it. I NEVER get root rot. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Bourgeois" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Oups! I have looked this morning in Bonsai Today no. 88 about river sans and I understand than this is not river sand than I have but regular sand. So, it is heavier. Is there a chance it will crush, because of the wait? I hate being Canadian!!! I can't find any real river sand, pumice or haydite in this big hole!!! (Sorry, I just took 2 coffees this morning... I think I need 2 extras! Lol) Example?: I will pay my cottonseed 18us$ and it will cost me 40us$ shipping!!! Michel -----Message d'origine----- De : Internet Bonsai Club ] De la part de Michael Persiano Envoyé : 27 septembre 2005 13:23 À : Objet : [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Mon Ami: If you want a source for haydite, contact http://www.youkoubonsai.com/ and tell Keith I sent you. However, the mix that you are suggesting, Hard Akadama (double line brand), Turface, River sand, and Virginia pine bark should be fine. Equal parts of each should work well. If you are going to use this mix with fertilizer cakes, be certain to lightly rake the surface of the root pad once every 2-3 weeks to ensure water penetration. I would suggest that you not use lava stone or perlite for bonsai culture. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob -----Original Message----- From: Michel Bourgeois To: Sent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:50:06 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Hi, I have 6 realy nice and huge yamadori I am going to make and I want to pot them in fast growing soil. For this I want to use a non-organic soil, using fertilizer cake and water with fish emulsion. I don't mind watering 3 times a day. Like in this post: http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 ..0/ Here in Canada I can't find any pumice, haydite. I have this: - Hard Akadama (double line brand) - Turface - River sand - Virginia pine bark (wich I won't use for my non-organic soil) What do you suggest? I could get perlite. Maybe I could get black lava rock. but with difficulties. Thank you, Michel ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Michel Bourgeois wrote:
Oups! I have looked this morning in Bonsai Today no. 88 about river sans and I understand than this is not river sand than I have but regular sand. So, it is heavier. Is there a chance it will crush, because of the wait? I hate being Canadian!!! I can't find any real river sand, pumice or haydite in this big hole!!! (Sorry, I just took 2 coffees this morning... I think I need 2 extras! Lol) Example?: I will pay my cottonseed 18us$ and it will cost me 40us$ shipping!!! Michel It is not necessary to use cottonseed meal. Soy, corn, or ANY other vegetable meal will work as well. HOWEVER, I still fail to understand why you want to go to all that trouble. If you want to do mostly organic, buy an already made organic fertilizer. Supplement it occasionally with a commercial houseplant fertilizer. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Steven Peterson wrote:
Hi All, I recently purchased an azalea, a japanese holly, and a chinese elm from nurseries. They are still in their nursery pots. I'm assuming that I shouldn't repot until spring, but what should I do with them until then? Should I plant them in my garden? If so, would it help to make a plastic tent to protect them for the coldest nights? I think I want the holly and azalea to thicken a bit, so planting may be best, but I may the elm I may want to pot in the spring. Will it survive in a shed over the winter? Thanks, Steve Philadelphia, Pa If azalea grow in peoples' yards in Philly, by all means put them in the ground. You have no worries with the holly and the elm; they're hardy. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Steve:
I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Our low is typically -2 degrees Fahrenheit, but this is not a sustained low. Can you provide genus and species (Latin) for these trees to ensure the correct advice is offered? Some azaleas and elms are extremely hardy--many are not. Also, what is your typical low where you live? Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob -----Original Message----- From: Steven Peterson To: Sent: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:55:46 -0700 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Hi All, I recently purchased an azalea, a japanese holly, and a chinese elm from nurseries. They are still in their nursery pots. I'm assuming that I shouldn't repot until spring, but what should I do with them until then? Should I plant them in my garden? If so, would it help to make a plastic tent to protect them for the coldest nights? I think I want the holly and azalea to thicken a bit, so planting may be best, but I may the elm I may want to pot in the spring. Will it survive in a shed over the winter? Thanks, Steve Philadelphia, Pa ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Jim:
Two years ago I almost lost a 50-year old Ulmus davidiana to an 8+ week freeze. I too thought they were hardy. );-) All trees have a limit, and we all need to understand the impact of our regional weather and wintering methods on our trees. I lost every needle on a Pinus thunbergiana "Mikawa" during the same freeze. Go figure... Method Used: cold shed Alternative Method: White co-poly covered bench; cold garage. The difference is that co-poly warms the mulch bed by day and slowly cools at night. The shed remains quite cold. Cordially, Michael -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lewis To: Sent: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:40:01 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Steven Peterson wrote: Hi All, I recently purchased an azalea, a japanese holly, and a chinese elm from nurseries. They are still in their nursery pots. I'm assuming that I shouldn't repot until spring, but what should I do with them until then? Should I plant them in my garden? If so, would it help to make a plastic tent to protect them for the coldest nights? I think I want the holly and azalea to thicken a bit, so planting may be best, but I may the elm I may want to pot in the spring. Will it survive in a shed over the winter? Thanks, Steve Philadelphia, Pa If azalea grow in peoples' yards in Philly, by all means put them in the ground. You have no worries with the holly and the elm; they're hardy. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Jim,
Jim: I want to go to all this trouble because I want to feel that and this is the only way to make it than I know. http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 He said: " A year ago, at the direction of my teacher Boon Manakitivipart, I started using an entirely inorganic soil mix. This past weekend, I repotted the first of the trees that had gone into that mix. Taking the first of these trees out of its pot and seeing the fantastic results was certainly one of my most exciting moments in bonsai thus far. .... Boon's mix is as follows: 1/3 sifted "soft" akadama 1/3 sifted red lava 1/3 sifted white agricultural pumice I add a handful of sifted agricultural charcoal as well. Obviously, this is a fast-draining mix and so if you are not accustomed to such a mix, you need to adjust your watering accordingly. Also, with this completely inorganic mix, you need to fertilize more than you would with an inorganic mix. I put organic fertilizer cakes on the surface, and then supplement with an organic liquid fertilizer (5-1-1 fish emulsion, roughly weekly.) I am really thrilled by the results I've gotten with this soil and fertilizing regimen. Removing my trees from their pots for repotting last weekend, and seeing the progress that these trees have made over the past year, was a delight. I am very grateful to Boon for steering me in this direction." I went through the worst 16 years bonsai experiments you ever saw! After this... I don't have any tree than I am proud of. The only potential one, in 2000, I traveled 9 hours driving (another 9 hours to come back) and went to a master class with Collin Lewis in Boston (I live 3 hours north of Montreal). But, after I dig off the tree from the pot, I had a bad surprise to find an ugly root: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...eamNow_Web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...amGoal_Web.jpg It is nice yes... but it don't deserve the 1500$ it cost me! So, now. I decided to change my approach. I make now what I call "urbanYamadori" :-) I look on neighbourhood's landscape around where I live. When I see nice trees, I knock at their doors and offer owners to replace their “bad looking” trees for a “nice” nursery maple or fruit trees. For now I found these: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...CN4967-web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...CN4962-web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...CN4975-web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...k_DSCN5123.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...o/DSCN5103.jpg Later this day I will dig of a 55 y/o thuya 8 inches trunk, 3 feet tall. This week end it will be a mugo pine, 12 inches trunk 4 feet tall, about 25 y/o. This is why I want to grow them fast! If in 4 years I don't have bonsai I am realy proud of it... I will change my bonsai passion for sewing or knitting! :-) Thank you for your help, Michel -----Message d'origine----- De*: Internet Bonsai Club ] De la part de Jim Lewis Envoyé*: 28 septembre 2005 10:38 À*: Objet*: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Michel Bourgeois wrote: Oups! I have looked this morning in Bonsai Today no. 88 about river sans and I understand than this is not river sand than I have but regular sand. So, it is heavier. Is there a chance it will crush, because of the wait? I hate being Canadian!!! I can't find any real river sand, pumice or haydite in this big hole!!! (Sorry, I just took 2 coffees this morning... I think I need 2 extras! Lol) Example?: I will pay my cottonseed 18us$ and it will cost me 40us$ shipping!!! Michel It is not necessary to use cottonseed meal. Soy, corn, or ANY other vegetable meal will work as well. HOWEVER, I still fail to understand why you want to go to all that trouble. If you want to do mostly organic, buy an already made organic fertilizer. Supplement it occasionally with a commercial houseplant fertilizer. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Michel:
Akadama is a superb medium for growing bonsai trees. The other components are all fine. From an aesthetic perspective, I simply do not like to see "white" or "red" in soil mixes--my quirks. This is an interesting email, and I would encourage many of you to share your trees via similar links to webpages. Although unsolicitied, the Hornbeam will require carving to create a desirable taper in your future design for the tree. The other large specimens are interesting, and some will benefit from major chopping and eventually carving after they take root. Your passion for the art is inspiring. );-) Cordially, Michael Persiano -----Original Message----- From: Michel Bourgeois To: Sent: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:22:00 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Jim, Jim: I want to go to all this trouble because I want to feel that and this is the only way to make it than I know. http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 He said: " A year ago, at the direction of my teacher Boon Manakitivipart, I started using an entirely inorganic soil mix. This past weekend, I repotted the first of the trees that had gone into that mix. Taking the first of these trees out of its pot and seeing the fantastic results was certainly one of my most exciting moments in bonsai thus far. .... Boon's mix is as follows: 1/3 sifted "soft" akadama 1/3 sifted red lava 1/3 sifted white agricultural pumice I add a handful of sifted agricultural charcoal as well. Obviously, this is a fast-draining mix and so if you are not accustomed to such a mix, you need to adjust your watering accordingly. Also, with this completely inorganic mix, you need to fertilize more than you would with an inorganic mix. I put organic fertilizer cakes on the surface, and then supplement with an organic liquid fertilizer (5-1-1 fish emulsion, roughly weekly.) I am really thrilled by the results I've gotten with this soil and fertilizing regimen. Removing my trees from their pots for repotting last weekend, and seeing the progress that these trees have made over the past year, was a delight. I am very grateful to Boon for steering me in this direction." I went through the worst 16 years bonsai experiments you ever saw! After this... I don't have any tree than I am proud of. The only potential one, in 2000, I traveled 9 hours driving (another 9 hours to come back) and went to a master class with Collin Lewis in Boston (I live 3 hours north of Montreal). But, after I dig off the tree from the pot, I had a bad surprise to find an ugly root: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...eamNow_Web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...amGoal_Web.jpg It is nice yes... but it don't deserve the 1500$ it cost me! So, now. I decided to change my approach. I make now what I call "urbanYamadori" :-) I look on neighbourhood's landscape around where I live. When I see nice trees, I knock at their doors and offer owners to replace their "bad looking" trees for a "nice" nursery maple or fruit trees. For now I found these: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...CN4967-web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...CN4962-web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...CN4975-web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...k_DSCN5123.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...o/DSCN5103.jpg Later this day I will dig of a 55 y/o thuya 8 inches trunk, 3 feet tall. This week end it will be a mugo pine, 12 inches trunk 4 feet tall, about 25 y/o. This is why I want to grow them fast! If in 4 years I don't have bonsai I am realy proud of it... I will change my bonsai passion for sewing or knitting! :-) Thank you for your help, Michel -----Message d'origine----- De : Internet Bonsai Club ] De la part de Jim Lewis Envoyé : 28 septembre 2005 10:38 À : Objet : [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Michel Bourgeois wrote: Oups! I have looked this morning in Bonsai Today no. 88 about river sans and I understand than this is not river sand than I have but regular sand. So, it is heavier. Is there a chance it will crush, because of the wait? I hate being Canadian!!! I can't find any real river sand, pumice or haydite in this big hole!!! (Sorry, I just took 2 coffees this morning... I think I need 2 extras! Lol) Example?: I will pay my cottonseed 18us$ and it will cost me 40us$ shipping!!! Michel It is not necessary to use cottonseed meal. Soy, corn, or ANY other vegetable meal will work as well. HOWEVER, I still fail to understand why you want to go to all that trouble. If you want to do mostly organic, buy an already made organic fertilizer. Supplement it occasionally with a commercial houseplant fertilizer. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Michel
Sand is sand don´t worry. Natsu kobayashi the visiting master at the Swedish Bonsai Society´s meeting warned us about using to much sand (grit). Water will stick at the pebbles due to the tension and hence filling up the air pockes between the particles. He´s suggestion was to use more substrates like pumice and akadama with pores that take up the water and less grit, no more than 30% and in his case only 10-20%. He also rekommeded adding charcoal to the mix. It will help the akadama not to trn in to much so fast. And if you have lot´s of calcium in the soil yoiu can use a lot. He lives in england now and use up to 30% charcoal. If you don´t hva lots of calcium in the water 10% is enough. As always with soil mixes everyones got the best idea ;-). Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden Michel Bourgeois wrote: Oups! I have looked this morning in Bonsai Today no. 88 about river sans and I understand than this is not river sand than I have but regular sand. So, it is heavier. Is there a chance it will crush, because of the wait? I hate being Canadian!!! I can't find any real river sand, pumice or haydite in this big hole!!! (Sorry, I just took 2 coffees this morning... I think I need 2 extras! Lol) Example?: I will pay my cottonseed 18us$ and it will cost me 40us$ shipping!!! Michel -----Message d'origine----- De*: Internet Bonsai Club ] De la part de Michael Persiano Envoyé*: 27 septembre 2005 13:23 À*: Objet*: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Mon Ami: If you want a source for haydite, contact http://www.youkoubonsai.com/ and tell Keith I sent you. However, the mix that you are suggesting, Hard Akadama (double line brand), Turface, River sand, and Virginia pine bark should be fine. Equal parts of each should work well. If you are going to use this mix with fertilizer cakes, be certain to lightly rake the surface of the root pad once every 2-3 weeks to ensure water penetration. I would suggest that you not use lava stone or perlite for bonsai culture. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob -----Original Message----- From: Michel Bourgeois To: Sent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:50:06 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Hi, I have 6 realy nice and huge yamadori I am going to make and I want to pot them in fast growing soil. For this I want to use a non-organic soil, using fertilizer cake and water with fish emulsion. I don't mind watering 3 times a day. Like in this post: http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 .0/ Here in Canada I can't find any pumice, haydite. I have this: - Hard Akadama (double line brand) - Turface - River sand - Virginia pine bark (wich I won't use for my non-organic soil) What do you suggest? I could get perlite. Maybe I could get black lava rock. but with difficulties. Thank you, Michel ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Thank you Michael.
Now I have another problem… I want to use 7mm akadama for growing and Turface is only 3mm! Does it exist bigger turface? I won’t use sand… I am afraid of the weight, as you know akadama is fragile and even more when it’s wet and I think the peebles will crush the akadama. So… I have only one solution for my this year yamadori… pure akadama! Thank you for all your help Michel _____ De : ] Envoyé : 28 septembre 2005 11:59 À : ; Objet : [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Michel: Akadama is a superb medium for growing bonsai trees. The other components are all fine. From an aesthetic perspective, I simply do not like to see "white" or "red" in soil mixes--my quirks. This is an interesting email, and I would encourage many of you to share your trees via similar links to webpages. Although unsolicitied, the Hornbeam will require carving to create a desirable taper in your future design for the tree. The other large specimens are interesting, and some will benefit from major chopping and eventually carving after they take root. Your passion for the art is inspiring. );-) Cordially, Michael Persiano -----Original Message----- From: Michel Bourgeois To: Sent: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:22:00 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Jim, Jim: I want to go to all this trouble because I want to feel that and this is the only way to make it than I know. http://internetbonsaiclub.org/compon...133/topic,5966 He said: " A year ago, at the direction of my teacher Boon Manakitivipart, I started using an entirely inorganic soil mix. This past weekend, I repotted the first of the trees that had gone into that mix. Taking the first of these trees out of its pot and seeing the fantastic results was certainly one of my most exciting moments in bonsai thus far. .... Boon's mix is as follows: 1/3 sifted "soft" akadama 1/3 sifted red lava 1/3 sifted white agricultural pumice I add a handful of sifted agricultural charcoal as well. Obviously, this is a fast-draining mix and so if you are not accustomed to such a mix, you need to adjust your watering accordingly. Also, with this completely inorganic mix, you need to fertilize more than you would with an inorganic mix. I put organic fertilizer cakes on the surface, and then supplement with an organic liquid fertilizer (5-1-1 fish emulsion, roughly weekly.) I am really thrilled by the results I've gotten with this soil and fertilizing regimen. Removing my trees from their pots for repotting last weekend, and seeing the progress that these trees have made over the past year, was a delight. I am very grateful to Boon for steering me in this direction." I went through the worst 16 years bonsai experiments you ever saw! After this... I don't have any tree than I am proud of. The only potential one, in 2000, I traveled 9 hours driving (another 9 hours to come back) and went to a master class with Collin Lewis in Boston (I live 3 hours north of Montreal). But, after I dig off the tree from the pot, I had a bad surprise to find an ugly root: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...eamNow_Web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...amGoal_Web.jpg It is nice yes... but it don't deserve the 1500$ it cost me! So, now. I decided to change my approach. I make now what I call "urbanYamadori" :-) I look on neighbourhood's landscape around where I live. When I see nice trees, I knock at their doors and offer owners to replace their "bad looking" trees for a "nice" nursery maple or fruit trees. For now I found these: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...CN4967-web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...CN4962-web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...CN4975-web.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...k_DSCN5123.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34...o/DSCN5103.jpg Later this day I will dig of a 55 y/o thuya 8 inches trunk, 3 feet tall. This week end it will be a mugo pine, 12 inches trunk 4 feet tall, about 25 y/o. This is why I want to grow them fast! If in 4 years I don't have bonsai I am realy proud of it... I will change my bonsai passion for sewing or knitting! :-) Thank you for your help, Michel -----Message d'origine----- De : Internet Bonsai Club mailto:BONSAI%40HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM ] De la part de Jim Lewis Envoyé : 28 septembre 2005 10:38 À : mailto:BONSAI%40HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM Objet : [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Michel Bourgeois wrote: Oups! I have looked this morning in Bonsai Today no. 88 about river sans and I understand than this is not river sand than I have but regular sand. So, it is heavier. Is there a chance it will crush, because of the wait? I hate being Canadian!!! I can't find any real river sand, pumice or haydite in this big hole!!! (Sorry, I just took 2 coffees this morning... I think I need 2 extras! Lol) Example?: I will pay my cottonseed 18us$ and it will cost me 40us$ shipping!!! Michel It is not necessary to use cottonseed meal. Soy, corn, or ANY other vegetable meal will work as well. HOWEVER, I still fail to understand why you want to go to all that trouble. If you want to do mostly organic, buy an already made organic fertilizer. Supplement it occasionally with a commercial houseplant fertilizer. Jim Lewis - mailto:jklewis%40nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail mailto:BONSAI-REQUEST%40HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail mailto:BONSAI-REQUEST%40HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Michel Bourgeois wrote:
Thank you Michael. Now I have another problem… I want to use 7mm akadama for growing and Turface is only 3mm! Does it exist bigger turface? I won’t use sand… I am afraid of the weight, as you know akadama is fragile and even more when it’s wet and I think the peebles will crush the akadama. I don´t belive so. You can mix grit and akadama. I think pure akadama is worse than mixed with grit. Grit can keep the soil structure for longer, this at least my experience here in Sweden which I think is not far from the climate in Canada. Remeber your yamadori trees will stay for a long time in that box or pot. You need a substrate that will stay in shape for several years. Pure akadama would not be my no 1 choise for this if you experience tawing and freezing during the winter. I don´t see a problem mixing 7 mm and 3 mm particles. I think equal parts of akadama, grit and turface would be your best option, both from an economical and horticultural point of view. Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil
Hi Michael,
This is an old one. You said: Two years ago I almost lost a 50-year old Ulmus davidiana to an 8+ week freeze. I too thought they were hardy. );-) All trees have a limit, and we all need to understand the impact of our regional weather and wintering methods on our trees. I lost every needle on a Pinus thunbergiana "Mikawa" during the same freeze. Go figure... Method Used: cold shed Alternative Method: White co-poly covered bench; cold garage. The difference is that co-poly warms the mulch bed by day and slowly cools at night. The shed remains quite cold. I couldn't tell whether you were recommending the the co-poly covered bench or the shed. As you said the co-poly would warm the mulch during the day but the shed or garage would provide some insulation from the cold ground. Thanks, Steve ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil
Steve,
I'm sure Michael will respond as to which he was recommending. I would like to comment on your question, though: As you said the co-poly would warm the mulch during the day but the shed or garage would provide some insulation from the cold ground. It isn't the cold ground that your trees need protection from, it is the cold air. The ground stays at a relatively even temperature, which is quite a bit warmer than the air temperature, especially as one goes below the surface a bit. Putting your trees on the ground and mulching around them helps to connect them with the ground and keep their rootballs at ground temperature. Roots are designed to live at ground temperature, not at the much colder and widely fluctuating air temperature. Regards, Roger Snipes Spokane, WA. Zone 5-ish ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil
Steve:
Roger makes a very good point: if you can leverage the ground temperature by wintering your trees under a bench, it is an excellent solution. The idea of wintering via a cold shed was broached by Yoshimura in his landmark book, The Art of Growing and Caring for Miniature Trees. I winter my Japanese White Pines in the shed because extreme cold is not a problem, and I have grown weary of crawling under benches to check trees. );-) To mitigate the effects of the cold air rushing beneath the shed and chilling the floor boards, I do the following; 1. Lay out sheets of foam board onto the floor boards in the shed. They are easily and inexpensively acquired from Home Depot. 2. Dump bags of dry cedar mulch onto the foam. This is usually 5 inches deep. 3. The bonsai are placed on the mulch. 4. The trees are drenched. 5. The root pads are covered with heavy black landscape fabric. 6. A chopstick is inserted through the fabric and into the root pad. 7. The pots are covered with cedar mulch--approximately 6-8 inches. The shed is opened when the temperatures move into the mid 30s F. Once the temperatures drop and we enter a sustained winter freeze, nothing is done to the Japanese White Pines until the spring. I also use this method for storing my Junipers. I do not recommend this approach for potted Buxus, Acer, Prunus, Ulmus, etc. Cordially, Michael -----Original Message----- From: Roger Snipes To: Sent: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:49:45 -0700 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Steve, I'm sure Michael will respond as to which he was recommending. I would like to comment on your question, though: As you said the co-poly would warm the mulch during the day but the shed or garage would provide some insulation from the cold ground. It isn't the cold ground that your trees need protection from, it is the cold air. The ground stays at a relatively even temperature, which is quite a bit warmer than the air temperature, especially as one goes below the surface a bit. Putting your trees on the ground and mulching around them helps to connect them with the ground and keep their rootballs at ground temperature. Roots are designed to live at ground temperature, not at the much colder and widely fluctuating air temperature. Regards, Roger Snipes Spokane, WA. Zone 5-ish ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil
I hope that my recent post clarified this point.
The mulch, whether placed on pots under the bench or in a shed, minimized the freeze-thaw cycle. My suggestion is that you speak to people in your region and determine what has worked for them. No wintering method is without risk. Cordially, Michael -----Original Message----- From: Steve Peterson To: Cc: Sent: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:36:45 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Hi Michael, This is an old one. You said: Two years ago I almost lost a 50-year old Ulmus davidiana to an 8+ week freeze. I too thought they were hardy. );-) All trees have a limit, and we all need to understand the impact of our regional weather and wintering methods on our trees. I lost every needle on a Pinus thunbergiana "Mikawa" during the same freeze. Go figure... Method Used: cold shed Alternative Method: White co-poly covered bench; cold garage. The difference is that co-poly warms the mulch bed by day and slowly cools at night. The shed remains quite cold. I couldn't tell whether you were recommending the the co-poly covered bench or the shed. As you said the co-poly would warm the mulch during the day but the shed or garage would provide some insulation from the cold ground. Thanks, Steve ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil
Steve:
I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia, so my reference point is quite good for your location. Copoly is a white plastic used for cold houses. Unlike clear plastic covered structures, those covers with white co-poly plastic gradually heat up by day and gradually cool down in the evening. You will need to contact a local nursery and ask who is supplying their copoly. I would first place cedar mulch on the ground, place your trees, apply the landscape fabric, and then mulch over the pots up to the lowest branches. As for Acer buergerianum and Ulmus parvifolia, they will not winter well in this zone, so I would not risk it. Place them in a cold garage after they are exposed to nights of frost and lose their leaves. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob -----Original Message----- From: Steve Peterson To: Sent: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:09:58 -0400 Subject: [IBC] Non organic Yamadori soil Hi Michael, Roger, all, Michael said: Roger makes a very good point: if you can leverage the ground temperature by wintering your trees under a bench, it is an excellent solution. Then that's what I'll do. Co-poly, which you mentioned, is short for something I assume. Can you tell me what it is and where to get it? Should I put the pots on top of bricks or something before mulching or directly on the ground? I do not recommend this approach for potted Buxus, Acer, Prunus, Ulmus, etc. Do you think a chinese elm and a trident maple would be okay under a covered bench? Thanks, Steve Philadelphia (Havertown), Pa ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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