[IBC] Translation help
Hi everyone i recently ordered a small mame pot from
tokoname. Which has 4 sides with japanese symbols on each side. I contacted the person i bought it from for a translation this is what he found. But he still thinks something has been lost in the translation. Have any of you ever heard this poem? Or do any of you know which words are missing? They are 4 Haikus, Haikus are Japanese poems with 3 lines consisting of 5,7,5 syllables. The first red leaves in front of the mountain makes scenery. Welcome rain drop to the flower of Aronia. Needles of pine tree sting the sky to change the color. I enter to wicket door turn aside from wet willow by rain. I can take some pics this weekend if any of you think you could translate it. Its apparently in a form of japanese no longer spoken. Thanks Ben __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Translation help
Thanks but it is written in ancient japanese so most
japanese can't read it. Ben --- Neal Ross wrote: Ben, Never heard that poem, but there is someplace that might help you. I bought some calligraphy from a woman named Eri Takase. She is a Japanese woman who doesn't speak any English and uses a translator to due business. She may be able to help. You can always go to her webpage and e mail her from there if you want to give it a try. Check it out at www.takase.com --I crucified my hate and held the world within my hands-- Neal Ross-Marysville CA __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Translation help
Hi Ben.
You write of haiku (poems) on a Tokonome pot: The first red leaves in front of the mountain makes scenery. Welcome rain drop to the flower of Aronia. Needles of pine tree sting the sky to change the color. I enter to wicket door turn aside from wet willow by rain. ... SNIP Have any of you ever heard this poem? Or do any of you know which words are missing? Why would you think words are missing? It appears someone has added generously to the original four poems to suggest a reasonable "meaning" for each. I recently posted a scroll on the Suiseki Mail List that "reads" left-to-right, top-to-bottom: 1.KEI --- incline 2.NEN --- nature 3.KAN --- invite 4.CHA --- tea 5.HEI --- jar (for green tea) The Japanese fellow who sold it offered that it might be intended to say, "Drink Japanese green tea, if you want to become natural." After exploring the characters creating the message in the NTC character dictionary (though I never found the last character & required help for it), I choose to read it, "Inviting natural feeling-- a tea jar." The Aronia (j. _Kaido_, a.k.a. 'chokeberry') is a seasonal allusion to spring. The wet willow is a seasonal allusion to summer. I'd think the red leaves at the foot of the mountain suggest autumn. "Needles of the pine tree sting the sky to change the color...," hmmm? You might use the pot to display a seasonal planting of your choice-- repotting at each season. You might turn the pot to suggest the season for a cross-seasonal planting. More likely, choose one plant that has a prefered season and choose the haiku that suppoprts the image. Alternatively, choose the script that is most appealing (Japanese enthusiasts of wabi-style tea might choose the most awkward script whereas a modern suiseki enthusiasts might choose technically well-balanced script) and the planting of your choice for creating a feeling of nature that is meaningful to you. Best wishes, Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond, VA USA ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Translation help
Thanks Chris i didn't suggest myself that it was
incomplete the translator thought it might be incomplete. I like your idea of rewording it to make more sense. Thanks ben __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Translation help
Hi Ben.
Hope you are happy with your pot. It is somewhat rare for vendors of Japanese calligraphy art to translate the text into English. They often say, "The style of calligraphy is old (or even claim it is ancient)." There have been changes in convention which change the expectation for learning and reading characters. Sometimes, I can readily see why the vendor might withold that their lovely scroll weight carries kanji characters noting, "Buy your ink at The Red Moth Emporium." It is not rare (exactly as your vendor suggests) for a few words to reference more. The famous Blue Cliff Record includes the WIDELY noted response of a Chinese monk that answered his own question regarding what comes before and after the 15th day of the month. When his clerical students had no response, he stated (as though answering), "Every day is a good day." The whole incident and the spiritual message that all days are part of an absolute reality which is unchanging is often shortened to the two characters for "good" and "day." On the Takagi Bonsai Museum website of "previous exhibitions" (those held in the last month) now posted http://www.bonsaimuseum.org/e/z030103.html. Two of the three calligraphy scrolls mounted in alcove display are "good day" scrolls-- one of 5-character length and another of 2-character length. "Everyday," btw, is expressed by the character for "day (or 'sun')" repeated, so it is easily spotted. Best wishes, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Griffin" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:35 PM Subject: [IBC] Translation help Thanks Chris i didn't suggest myself that it was incomplete the translator thought it might be incomplete. I like your idea of rewording it to make more sense. Thanks ben ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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