|
[IBC] japanese black pine
I have a japanese black pine in a 1 gallon nursery pot which I have began to
train. I took the root ball out of the pot to see if it was looking healthy. I then put it back in, and there is space of air inbetween the root ball and the bottom of the pot. This may be a stupid question, but I just want to do what is best for the plant. Should I keep forcing the rootball down into the pot, or should I fill the gap with soil? The reason I am considering filling it with soil is because I tried to push the rootball down, but i can't seem to fill the gap. I don't want to put too much preasure on the roots, or compact the soil to much because then the air circulation will decrease. Thanks for your time. - Colin Horn, Orinda, CA __________________________________________________ _______________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] japanese black pine
This may be a stupid question, but I just want to do
what is best for the plant. Should I keep forcing the rootball down into the pot, or should I fill the gap with soil? Good question. Add the soil. Any good potting soil will do for now. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
Cam,
It sounds like you are experiencing some form of damp off - generally a fungal attack of the soft stem at ground level. This is most likely if they fall over. Solutions include using a very well draining soil (some use straight sand) and making sure that they do not stay over wet. There are also fungicides that can be used for damp off, but I have not found them necessary. I normally plant pine seed in flats with well draining soil (2/3 fine lava (sand works) and 1/3 fine bark) outside for the winter with screen or something on top to keep the critters out. Better than 50% germination is common and I only lose a few in the spring - most often to forgetting to water on the first hot day or so. Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of cam Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 8:30 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Japanese black pine Hi: I`ve been trying to get some Japanese black pine seeds to grow. So far, everytime I plant the seeds, they sprout great, get to about 2 or 3 inches tall then die. Any ideas? Should I chill the seeds first? I`ve heard that this is sometimes necessary for effective growth. PS The seedlings that I tried to grow were done indoors. I was planning (had they lived) to move outside in spring. Thanks. Cam www.bonsaichat.com ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
Cam,
It sounds like you are experiencing some form of damp off - generally a fungal attack of the soft stem at ground level. This is most likely if they fall over. Solutions include using a very well draining soil (some use straight sand) and making sure that they do not stay over wet. There are also fungicides that can be used for damp off, but I have not found them necessary. I normally plant pine seed in flats with well draining soil (2/3 fine lava (sand works) and 1/3 fine bark) outside for the winter with screen or something on top to keep the critters out. Better than 50% germination is common and I only lose a few in the spring - most often to forgetting to water on the first hot day or so. Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of cam Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 8:30 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Japanese black pine Hi: I`ve been trying to get some Japanese black pine seeds to grow. So far, everytime I plant the seeds, they sprout great, get to about 2 or 3 inches tall then die. Any ideas? Should I chill the seeds first? I`ve heard that this is sometimes necessary for effective growth. PS The seedlings that I tried to grow were done indoors. I was planning (had they lived) to move outside in spring. Thanks. Cam www.bonsaichat.com ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
Cam,
It sounds like you are experiencing some form of damp off - generally a fungal attack of the soft stem at ground level. This is most likely if they fall over. Solutions include using a very well draining soil (some use straight sand) and making sure that they do not stay over wet. There are also fungicides that can be used for damp off, but I have not found them necessary. I normally plant pine seed in flats with well draining soil (2/3 fine lava (sand works) and 1/3 fine bark) outside for the winter with screen or something on top to keep the critters out. Better than 50% germination is common and I only lose a few in the spring - most often to forgetting to water on the first hot day or so. Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of cam Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 8:30 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Japanese black pine Hi: I`ve been trying to get some Japanese black pine seeds to grow. So far, everytime I plant the seeds, they sprout great, get to about 2 or 3 inches tall then die. Any ideas? Should I chill the seeds first? I`ve heard that this is sometimes necessary for effective growth. PS The seedlings that I tried to grow were done indoors. I was planning (had they lived) to move outside in spring. Thanks. Cam www.bonsaichat.com ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
In a message dated 1/27/2004 12:21:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes: So far, everytime I plant the seeds, they sprout great, get to about 2 or 3 inches tall then die. I use 100% large particle vermiculite to start seeds. It is totally inert, being a form of expanded mica, a mineral. I then transfer to potting soil when the seedlings get their first true leaves. I suppose you could keep them in vermiculite longer by watering with a liquid fertilizer. This works because the damp off fungus can't live on the inert vermiculite. Billy on the Florida Space Coast BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral, Florida Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai Society http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
Cam,
Damping off MAY be a contributing factor, but the fact that you're starting these seedlings indoors is likely the reason they're dying. Black pine should be started outdoors in the appropriate season. They should never find themselves indoors (except at night during a freeze - then back out in the daytime). Start your seeds in spring outside and you should have no problems. I've never lost a pine seedling by following the rules of nature. Best of luck! Kind regards, Andy Rutledge www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm zone 8, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "cam" Hi: I`ve been trying to get some Japanese black pine seeds to grow. So far, everytime I plant the seeds, they sprout great, get to about 2 or 3 inches tall then die. Any ideas? Should I chill the seeds first? I`ve heard that this is sometimes necessary for effective growth. PS The seedlings that I tried to grow were done indoors. I was planning (had they lived) to move outside in spring. Thanks. Cam ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
I'll add to what Andy said. Damping off can't easily occur if you use a soil-less mix and surface-sterilize the seeds before planting. The trick with starting any kind of seed indoors is to keep the soil warm enough and the air moist enough without also
having soggy soil. With bonsai, I plant seeds in pots and overwinter them. Then they can germinate whenever they feel like it. Saves me a lot of trouble. -Nina -----Original Message----- Date: Mon Jan 26 23:30:28 EST 2004 From: "cam" Subject: [IBC] Japanese black pine To: Hi: I`ve been trying to get some Japanese black pine seeds to grow. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
I'll add to what Andy said. Damping off can't easily occur if you use a soil-less mix and surface-sterilize the seeds before planting. The trick with starting any kind of seed indoors is to keep the soil warm enough and the air moist enough without also
having soggy soil. With bonsai, I plant seeds in pots and overwinter them. Then they can germinate whenever they feel like it. Saves me a lot of trouble. -Nina -----Original Message----- Date: Mon Jan 26 23:30:28 EST 2004 From: "cam" Subject: [IBC] Japanese black pine To: Hi: I`ve been trying to get some Japanese black pine seeds to grow. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
This works because the damp off fungus can't live on the inert vermiculite.
Sadly, it's not true. The damping off fungi (there are a few of them) can live anywhere moist, but they need to get there. Generally the bag of vermiculite you buy is fungus-free. However, a couple of years ago I was working with Marge Daughtrey on the ecology of damping-off fungi in greenhouses, and not only did we find it everywhere in the greenhouse, we also found it in bags of peat, prior to being potted up. So although I'd advise anyone to start with clean materials, getting clean materials may not be so easy. I'd store my bags of potting components in a dry place. I'd control fungus gnats and shore flies, both of which are suspected of spreading fungi around in greenhouses. [hands down the worst part of this survey we did was plating out shore f ly corpses to look for fungi. Ick]. -Nina ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
This works because the damp off fungus can't live on the inert vermiculite.
Sadly, it's not true. The damping off fungi (there are a few of them) can live anywhere moist, but they need to get there. Generally the bag of vermiculite you buy is fungus-free. However, a couple of years ago I was working with Marge Daughtrey on the ecology of damping-off fungi in greenhouses, and not only did we find it everywhere in the greenhouse, we also found it in bags of peat, prior to being potted up. So although I'd advise anyone to start with clean materials, getting clean materials may not be so easy. I'd store my bags of potting components in a dry place. I'd control fungus gnats and shore flies, both of which are suspected of spreading fungi around in greenhouses. [hands down the worst part of this survey we did was plating out shore f ly corpses to look for fungi. Ick]. -Nina ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Japanese black pine
Hello to All,
Cam, as someone in the Tropics,I stick the black pine seeds in the vegetable crisper section of my refrigerator for about 3 months or if I forget them longer.As long as the container is air tight and dry[normally I don't open the pack unless I am planting all in a shot.A seed pack often holds 30 seeds.],they will last. For soil,it's sand/fine gravel [size - 0 and o] to 3 inches deep,with a very little peat moss mixed in and a treatment with a soil fungicide.I think what I used was called Banrot. As Andy says,outdoors,and for me it's light shade with a mesh over the surface to stop anything from interfering with seed. Germination starts within 9 to10 days and the mesh is removed as the seeds break through the sand. After six months or so,I transfer to individual 4" pots of sand with a little peat moss.Sand is this big - 0. I have never had the guts to do the chop off the root technique of seedlings as seen in the earlier issues of Bonsai Today,so I handle root placement at a later stage. Placement in 4" pots is full sun. Once their happily growing,fertiliser is every two weeks and they get lots of water as the soil mix drains well. Please factor in that I have no winter or spring or other and I can start seeds whenever I wish,though I usually do so around my birthday in February.Makes it easier to remember when they were born. I am on batch number 6. I even got white pines to live for 2 years and then the parasol ants pruned their heads-bah humbug. Until later. Khaimraj [ West Indies/Caribbean] *I have grown seed from Japan and England,from commercial packs. -----Original Message----- From: cam To: Date: 26 January 2004 20:44 Subject: [IBC] Japanese black pine Hi: I`ve been trying to get some Japanese black pine seeds to grow. So far, everytime I plant the seeds, they sprout great, get to about 2 or 3 inches tall then die. Any ideas? Should I chill the seeds first? I`ve heard that this is sometimes necessary for effective growth. PS The seedlings that I tried to grow were done indoors. I was planning (had they lived) to move outside in spring. Thanks. Cam www.bonsaichat.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:20 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter