[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
Sean,
Bonsai is a gentle sport, and most of us tend toward the kindness thingy. I've decided to get my feet wet with this Bonsai thingie. I've always marveled at these interesting trees whenever I visit a nursery and my curiousity have finally piqued a desire to try it out for myself. I have visited a few websites in the last week and I see *recommended* trees for beginners and such, but I live in southern New Hampshire and I am wanting try trees from my local area. I realize that this will most likely be more difficult, but I really want to go this route. Why? Because I love this state and the forests here and I'm an obstinate Yankee. That's why! I'm all for it (but see below). I pefer native trees and shrubs also, and there are a lot of good candidates in your area (but, again, see below). I've pulled some very small saplings with my children and we potted them individually yesterday in small containers. One is very shallow, the others are just small but I'm being given some true bonsai pots today for the others. What we have so far is: Sugar Maple White Maple Hemlock White pine I intend on getting white birch as well. None of the trees you "pulled" (I hope I don't take that literally) make very good bonsai, or if they do, they don't make particularly easy bonsai for a beginner. The Hemlock and white pine are bonsaiable, but not easily. And, dug at this time of year, they're probably impossible -- even way up "nawth" in NH, where spring is about 20 miutes old and lasts for an hour or so. ;-) I realize they will most likely all die, being a first attempt, but I'm going to stick it out and keep trying! Great. But let me suggest that an occasional success early on is a very nice incentive toward continuing the sport of bonsai. Is there any suggestions anyone can make for a complete newbie in this arena? We always have suggestions: 1. Go to the library and check out a book or two on bonsai (or buy one from your local bookstore -- the new Sunset (pub.) "Bonsai" is inexpensive and excellent. RD Home Handbooks, "Bonsai" by Harry Tomlinson also is cheap and very good). They won't tell you much about local trees, but they will thoroughly ground you in the horticultural aspects of growing trees in small pots. If the library as "Bonsai from the Wild" by Nick Lenz, read it. It's all about trees from your area. It is out of print and pretty much unavailable except at completely stupid prices on e-bay, but a New England public library may have gotten a copy because of its local slant. 2. Go to a local nursery (best) or Home Depot/Lowes garden center) and purchase a one- or three-gallon size tree with small leaves -- a native if you can find one, or something else like a privet or boxwood or Chinese elm. Then, using the info in the books you have do some work on the top -- the branches, the trunk, etc. -- saving the root work until NEXT spring. 3. Join a local bonsai club. You will find listings of clubs at www.bci-bonsai.com and www.absbonsai.org. Go to meetings, talk and learn from members. Have fun. 4. Ask questions here -- and welcome. 5. For the future, bonsiable trees from your area, might include the red maple (Acer rubrum), various hawthorns, the yellow birch (B. alleghaniensis), the American hornbeam (Carpinus caroliniana), the hophornbeam (Ostrya virginiana), the hackberry (Celtis sp.), apples (Malus sp.), some of the cherry/plum family (Prunus sp.), and others with leaves under 2 inches (or so). As you gain experience, the list expands. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase 'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
This is why you really need to do some basic reading. Growing in the
ground will allow much faster development which will enable you to make many choices of new branches, leaders, develop girth, root spread (nebari), aged bark and many of the other desirable characteristics. The roots that develop are often more readily cut back if the plant is vigorous. If you have the ground, patience and some horticultural skill, there's nothing to stop you from planting out as many as you can and allowing them to develop as experimental stock. No matter what you do, I guarantee you'll get faster results this way. Meanwhile read,read,read. Cheers Kev Bailey Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales Thanks for your (and all others') reply, but I have one question about one of your comments. That is not the way to go. You need to grow them in the ground for a few years first. snip It's that comment...won't they grow too large and have far too many roots if they are grown in the ground "for a few years"? Or, once removed from the ground, will I be pruning the living bejeezus out of them to make them suitable? The reason I am not buying nursery plants or ready-made bonsai is the cost. I'm not exactly rich and can't see paying money to murder poor innocent plants to get good at this. I've got a fairly decent track record with vegetable gardening and indoor plants where, while not exactly along the same science of Bonsai, at least I have had a little luck with horticulture. And I have plenty of patience. Again, thanks for your reply! Sean. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 04/07/2003 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
Sean:
When you plant the trees in the ground, try and place a large ceramic tile or some of those humidity trays that arte useless, several inches under the tree. This will force the roots to spread out rather than downwards. They will be easier to prune when the time come to put them in pots... Good luck, and enjoy the hobby... it is addicting! Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7 http://bmee.net/rosner http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48 Sean Lowe wrote: snip It's that comment...won't they grow too large and have far too many roots if they are grown in the ground "for a few years"? Or, once removed from the ground, will I be pruning the living bejeezus out of them to make them suitable? The reason I am not buying nursery plants or ready-made bonsai is the cost. I'm not exactly rich and can't see paying money to murder poor innocent plants to get good at this. I've got a fairly decent track record with vegetable gardening and indoor plants where, while not exactly along the same science of Bonsai, at least I have had a little luck with horticulture. And I have plenty of patience. Again, thanks for your reply! Sean. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
Thanks for your (and all others') reply, but I have one
question about one of your comments. That is not the way to go. You need to grow them in the ground for a few years first. snip It's that comment...won't they grow too large and have far too many roots if they are grown in the ground "for a few years"? Or, once removed from the ground, will I be pruning the living bejeezus out of them to make them suitable? Well, one of the goals of bonsai is to make trees that LOOK old. A skinny tree with a pencil-thin trunk stuffed into a tiny pot might technically be a bonsai (which means plant-in-a-pot), but they certainly won't be _good_ bonsai -- or even _fair_ bonsai. And they will NOT look old. We will plant trees in the ground and let them grow for a couple of years, or more -- sometimes letting them get several feet tall -- and let their trunks fatten. THEN we'll dig them up, and put them in large-diameter, shallow pots (maybe a 10-gallon nursery pot cut doan to 6 inches deep), doing a considerable amount of root and top pruning in the process. Then we'll let them grow out again for a few years -- 2, 4 or more, repotting as necessary if the roots start to fill up this pot. We may do some basic wiring and shaping during this period, but usually nothing more than hard pruning at the end of every growing season. You can't NOT have too many roots. They can be too long (but they also can be cut back). Assuming at this point that 4-8 years have gone by, we THEN may put the tree in a bonsai pot, but still a larger pot than may be its final destiny. Depending on the species, and the style, we could have a tree whose trunk is 2 inches wide and a tree that stands 8-10 inches tall. At this point, we will start hard training -- wring, pruning, pinching and shaping the tree. In a year or two, we may repot, pruning and thinning roots, and moving the tree into a smaller (maybe final, but maybe not) pot, and will continue the training of the top. Perhaps 10 years will have passed before we have a "bonsai." And many more years will have passed before we have a "Bonsai." The reason I am not buying nursery plants or ready-made bonsai is the cost. I'm not exactly rich and can't see paying money to murder poor innocent plants to get good at this. I've got a fairly decent track record with vegetable gardening and indoor plants where, while not exactly along the same science of Bonsai, at least I have had a little luck with horticulture. And I have plenty of patience. You don't ever need to buy a ready-made bonsai, but in MY town, you can buy a juniper (procumbans nana, or chinensis) with a one-inch trunk in a one-gallon pot at a GOOD nursery for $3.95. These trees make as near to "instant bonsai" as you can get (though you're still much better off working on the top the first year and the roots in the second). You can buy a Satsuki azalea with a 2-inch trunk for $5.00 +. They'll need a little more work (and time) to become a nice pre-bonsai, but still are nice plants which will give you pretty flowers the next year (if you let them). You don't have to be even moderately rich to buy a few of these. It would, BTW, be a lot easier to reply if you'd drop the NOSPAM stuff from your e-mail address for messages you post to the list/news group. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase 'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
Thanks in advance for any guidance/suggestions/insight,
Sean Lowe... Sean, There are a couple of good bonsai nurseries in your area (Southern New Hampshire) where you can either buy some rather inexpensive pre-bonsai nursery stock, ask some questions or just look around at what is available and the particular plants and styles. Both are in Massachusetts. One is Bonsai West in Littleton, MA http://www.bonsaiwest.com/index.html The other is New England Bonsai in Bellingham, MA http://www.nebonsai.com/ As a newbie I've found both nurseries to be very helpful. Craig ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
Craig O'Connell wrote:
Thanks in advance for any guidance/suggestions/insight, Sean Lowe... Sean, There are a couple of good bonsai nurseries in your area (Southern New Hampshire) where you can either buy some rather inexpensive pre-bonsai nursery stock, ask some questions or just look around at what is available and the particular plants and styles. Both are in Massachusetts. One is Bonsai West in Littleton, MA http://www.bonsaiwest.com/index.html The other is New England Bonsai in Bellingham, MA http://www.nebonsai.com/ As a newbie I've found both nurseries to be very helpful. Craig Excellent suggestion. Both are great places to learn. Both nurseries do workshops and have other events. Don't miss any opportunity to go! Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
Sean:
What everybody is telling you is that bonsai is not for those who want instant gratification. Time and patience are the name of the game. What's more, some of us believe that it is the process of creating a bonsai, not the result, which really counts. If you accept these basic ideas, you'll be on your way to becoming a bonsai person. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Lowe" To: Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 6:18 PM Subject: [IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind) "Iris Cohen" wrote in message ... I think it is better to be mean to newbies before they get hopelessly addicted. snip Thanks for your (and all others') reply, but I have one question about one of your comments. That is not the way to go. You need to grow them in the ground for a few years first. snip It's that comment...won't they grow too large and have far too many roots if they are grown in the ground "for a few years"? Or, once removed from the ground, will I be pruning the living bejeezus out of them to make them suitable? The reason I am not buying nursery plants or ready-made bonsai is the cost. I'm not exactly rich and can't see paying money to murder poor innocent plants to get good at this. I've got a fairly decent track record with vegetable gardening and indoor plants where, while not exactly along the same science of Bonsai, at least I have had a little luck with horticulture. And I have plenty of patience. Again, thanks for your reply! Sean. ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
Sean, by now you have received a lot of very good advice. I have followed a
similar path to the one you have outlined for the last few years so perhaps my experiences can be of assistance. Here are my suggestions: 1. find a local bonsai club if you can and pitch in. Local clubs are a font of local wisdom plus you can watch the more experienced members work on their trees. There is nothing like a local club to give you the exposure to what works in your area. Do volunteer to help. The learning from doing what will later be menial tasks will be invaluable to you later and your club now. 2. follow the advise about reading. Your local library is a wonderful resource. If they do not have the book you think you want to read, such as the "Bonsai from the Wild" previously suggested, they can probably order it for you. 3. get dirty. There is nothing like doing it to make something real in your mind. You will kill a number of trees from shear ignorance so do use the local material. This has the advantage of being acclimated to your area which means one less stress on the plant. It also means that the locals consider it a weed so no one minds too much if one dies. I call this my "kill-a-weed" stage and I'm still in it. 4. salvage older material. Here is an opportunity to do two good things at the same time. In many cases, older landscaping material is being ripped out for new construction or just to re-do the landscaping, maybe even your own yard. The old material is destined for the landfill. Contact a local landscaper, contractor or large company which is likely to have this type of activity going on. I work for a university, so such activity is frequently planned. I've gotten my club in to salvage some of that material which has grown in the ground and been maintained by our Grounds Department for up to 50 years. If it survives this collection, it's ready to work on in a year or two. If not, then it's trip to the landfill was delayed just a short time. Bonsai doesn't have to be expensive but it must be fun or you will not do it for very long. Welcome to the lunacy and have fun - jay Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a -----Original Message----- From: Sean Lowe ] Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 8:41 AM Subject: Complete newbie (please be kind) Hi all, I've decided to get my feet wet with this Bonsai thingie. I've always marveled at these interesting trees whenever I visit a nursery and my curiousity have finally piqued a desire to try it out for myself. I have visited a few websites in the last week and I see *recommended* trees for beginners and such, but I live in southern New Hampshire and I am wanting try trees from my local area. I realize that this will most likely be more difficult, but I really want to go this route. Why? Because I love this state and the forests here and I'm an obstinate Yankee. That's why! I've pulled some very small saplings with my children and we potted them individually yesterday in small containers. One is very shallow, the others are just small but I'm being given some true bonsai pots today for the others. What we have so far is: Sugar Maple White Maple Hemlock White pine I intend on getting white birch as well. I realize they will most likely all die, being a first attempt, but I'm going to stick it out and keep trying! Is there any suggestions anyone can make for a complete newbie in this arena? Thanks in advance for any guidance/suggestions/insight, Sean Lowe... ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
Sean, by now you have received a lot of very good advice. I have followed a
similar path to the one you have outlined for the last few years so perhaps my experiences can be of assistance. Here are my suggestions: 1. find a local bonsai club if you can and pitch in. Local clubs are a font of local wisdom plus you can watch the more experienced members work on their trees. There is nothing like a local club to give you the exposure to what works in your area. Do volunteer to help. The learning from doing what will later be menial tasks will be invaluable to you later and your club now. 2. follow the advise about reading. Your local library is a wonderful resource. If they do not have the book you think you want to read, such as the "Bonsai from the Wild" previously suggested, they can probably order it for you. 3. get dirty. There is nothing like doing it to make something real in your mind. You will kill a number of trees from shear ignorance so do use the local material. This has the advantage of being acclimated to your area which means one less stress on the plant. It also means that the locals consider it a weed so no one minds too much if one dies. I call this my "kill-a-weed" stage and I'm still in it. 4. salvage older material. Here is an opportunity to do two good things at the same time. In many cases, older landscaping material is being ripped out for new construction or just to re-do the landscaping, maybe even your own yard. The old material is destined for the landfill. Contact a local landscaper, contractor or large company which is likely to have this type of activity going on. I work for a university, so such activity is frequently planned. I've gotten my club in to salvage some of that material which has grown in the ground and been maintained by our Grounds Department for up to 50 years. If it survives this collection, it's ready to work on in a year or two. If not, then it's trip to the landfill was delayed just a short time. Bonsai doesn't have to be expensive but it must be fun or you will not do it for very long. Welcome to the lunacy and have fun - jay Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a -----Original Message----- From: Sean Lowe ] Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 8:41 AM Subject: Complete newbie (please be kind) Hi all, I've decided to get my feet wet with this Bonsai thingie. I've always marveled at these interesting trees whenever I visit a nursery and my curiousity have finally piqued a desire to try it out for myself. I have visited a few websites in the last week and I see *recommended* trees for beginners and such, but I live in southern New Hampshire and I am wanting try trees from my local area. I realize that this will most likely be more difficult, but I really want to go this route. Why? Because I love this state and the forests here and I'm an obstinate Yankee. That's why! I've pulled some very small saplings with my children and we potted them individually yesterday in small containers. One is very shallow, the others are just small but I'm being given some true bonsai pots today for the others. What we have so far is: Sugar Maple White Maple Hemlock White pine I intend on getting white birch as well. I realize they will most likely all die, being a first attempt, but I'm going to stick it out and keep trying! Is there any suggestions anyone can make for a complete newbie in this arena? Thanks in advance for any guidance/suggestions/insight, Sean Lowe... ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
wsallen wrote:
snip The reason I am not buying nursery plants or ready-made bonsai is the cost. I'm not exactly rich and can't see paying money to murder poor innocent plants to get good at this. I've got a fairly decent track record with vegetable gardening and indoor plants where, while not exactly along the same science of Bonsai, at least I have had a little luck with horticulture. And I have plenty of patience. I hear you there! However if you purchase some hardy type plants that strike easily from cuttings you can get several trees for the price of one. In my own area (Perth, Western Australia) that would be Ficus sp. and Chinese Elms. Join your local club. The are an invaluable source of local knowledge, cuttings, books (club library) and demonstrations. Cheers, Heidi Aussie I understand Sean's reluctance to buy nursery material, but from my perspective, the money I spent on trees that didn't make it was the cost of my initial education. It's going to cost something either way. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Complete newbie (please be kind)
Craig Cowing wrote in message ... wsallen wrote: snip I hear you there! However if you purchase some hardy type plants that strike easily from cuttings you can get several trees for the price of one. In my own area (Perth, Western Australia) that would be Ficus sp. and Chinese Elms. Join your local club. The are an invaluable source of local knowledge, cuttings, books (club library) and demonstrations. I understand Sean's reluctance to buy nursery material, but from my perspective, the money I spent on trees that didn't make it was the cost of my initial education. It's going to cost something either way. Entirely true. I am making ongoing 'payments' on my bonsai education. Including a large juniper styled at a workshop by Megumi Bennett (well it still has some green bits, kinda green, well abit faded actually......;). There are ways you can minimise those payments though. Cheers, Heidi Aussie |
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