|
[IBC] Artificial lighting
I have always held the belief that when you bring
trees indoors, they die of bordom, especially of you make them watch Television. Kitsune Miko --- Manuel A Chavez wrote: My guess would be that the problems with the bald cypress is that you are trying to grow them inside. IMHO they would do much better if grown outside or in your green house. -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf Of Moontanman Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 6:45 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Artificial lighting I am kinda of a newbe to the Bonsai scene, I've been growing trees for ten years now. I have four nice trees, two bald cypress, one water tupelo, and a beech tree. my question is what kind of artificial lighting works best? I have been trying to grow a bald cypress indoors in one of my aquariums and I can't seem to get them to grow under metal halides. I grow cypess trees in my aquariums in my greenhouse with no problem but how can I get them to grow with artificial lighting? ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
My guess would be that the problems with the bald cypress is that you are trying to grow them inside. IMHO they would do much better if grown outside or in your green house. Well, that is what i am trying to overcome. An aquarium display indoors with my bald cypress, water tupelo, and mangroves growing along side cattails and some other emergent plants. mangroves grow great but not bald cypress. I need help please Moon |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
I have more questions than answers on this one. That is, once I
picked my jaw up off my chest. The Bald Cypress is a swamp tree. You cannot drown this tree. It'll tolerate frost in the winter, and hot and humid summers. The leaves prefer higher humidity than indoors can ever provide. If you're doing this as a terrarium planting, you'll want to keep the moisture level high. Perhaps too high as I expect the glass will be constantly beaded with moisture and will therefore not be viewable from the outside (in which case, what's the point?). If you're running your plants under halide lamps, you may be producing the heat, but are you producing the moisture? What size aquarium are you using (measurements in inches, not gallons please)? Do you have a misting system or is it enclosed to keep the humidity high. What are your humidity and temperature readings for the plant? If you're going to play God with this tree, you'll have to know these numbers. Humidity would be nice for the tree over 80% (gut feeling because that's what it is in New Orleans most of the time). Temperatures should be in the 80's and 90's during the summer. Having said that, I wonder if what the temperature differential is betweent the base and the apex of the tree. What good is it to get the base temperature at 85 degrees if the top, nearest the halide lamps, is at 110? That'd kill any plant. Further, would there be any differences between the base and apex humidity levels? I'm betting yes. Oh, man, this is complicated stuff. I like it better keeping outdoor trees outdoors. But hey, that's not the answer you're looking for. Does the cypress spend any time outside in the winter? It really does need to lose it's leaves once a year. Only cold weather will do that. You need something below 45 degrees for weeks at a time. Have you thought of hooking up a window air conditioner to your terrarium? But then, if you do that, you'll end up with water beading up on the OUTSIDE of the aquarium this time. And once again, non-viewable terrariums is not what you want. Since you seemed determined to have an indoor display of cypress, I doubt you'll listen to the best advice of all: STOP KILLING THESE TREES IN YOUR HOUSE. I can only give you enough advice to keep the trees alive for a season or two (or is that a season or less?). And since this is a multispecies display, ho man is this getting complicated! Bill Butler New Orleans, LA USDA Zone 9 www.gnobs.org (Club Auction on August 16, 2003) On 10 Jul 2003 18:26:40 GMT, ospam (Moontanman) wrote: My guess would be that the problems with the bald cypress is that you are trying to grow them inside. IMHO they would do much better if grown outside or in your green house. Well, that is what i am trying to overcome. An aquarium display indoors with my bald cypress, water tupelo, and mangroves growing along side cattails and some other emergent plants. mangroves grow great but not bald cypress. I need help please Moon |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
I have more questions than answers on this one. That is, once I
picked my jaw up off my chest. The Bald Cypress is a swamp tree. You cannot drown this tree. It'll tolerate frost in the winter, and hot and humid summers. The leaves prefer higher humidity than indoors can ever provide. If you're doing this as a terrarium planting, you'll want to keep the moisture level high. Perhaps too high as I expect the glass will be constantly beaded with moisture and will therefore not be viewable from the outside (in which case, what's the point?). If you're running your plants under halide lamps, you may be producing the heat, but are you producing the moisture? What size aquarium are you using (measurements in inches, not gallons please)? Do you have a misting system or is it enclosed to keep the humidity high. What are your humidity and temperature readings for the plant? If you're going to play God with this tree, you'll have to know these numbers. Humidity would be nice for the tree over 80% (gut feeling because that's what it is in New Orleans most of the time). Temperatures should be in the 80's and 90's during the summer. Having said that, I wonder if what the temperature differential is betweent the base and the apex of the tree. What good is it to get the base temperature at 85 degrees if the top, nearest the halide lamps, is at 110? That'd kill any plant. Further, would there be any differences between the base and apex humidity levels? I'm betting yes. Oh, man, this is complicated stuff. I like it better keeping outdoor trees outdoors. But hey, that's not the answer you're looking for. Does the cypress spend any time outside in the winter? It really does need to lose it's leaves once a year. Only cold weather will do that. You need something below 45 degrees for weeks at a time. Have you thought of hooking up a window air conditioner to your terrarium? But then, if you do that, you'll end up with water beading up on the OUTSIDE of the aquarium this time. And once again, non-viewable terrariums is not what you want. Since you seemed determined to have an indoor display of cypress, I doubt you'll listen to the best advice of all: STOP KILLING THESE TREES IN YOUR HOUSE. I can only give you enough advice to keep the trees alive for a season or two (or is that a season or less?). And since this is a multispecies display, ho man is this getting complicated! Bill Butler New Orleans, LA USDA Zone 9 www.gnobs.org (Club Auction on August 16, 2003) On 10 Jul 2003 18:26:40 GMT, ospam (Moontanman) wrote: My guess would be that the problems with the bald cypress is that you are trying to grow them inside. IMHO they would do much better if grown outside or in your green house. Well, that is what i am trying to overcome. An aquarium display indoors with my bald cypress, water tupelo, and mangroves growing along side cattails and some other emergent plants. mangroves grow great but not bald cypress. I need help please Moon |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
I have more questions than answers on this one. That is, once I picked my jaw up off my chest. Ok I'll go through this one section at a time The Bald Cypress is a swamp tree. You cannot drown this tree. It'll tolerate frost in the winter, and hot and humid summers. The leaves prefer higher humidity than indoors can ever provide. I am well aware of the conditions that bald cypress will live under. I live in the middle of a cypress swamp! My mom who lives in the Mountains of WVa grows bald cypress out side with no problems as well as inside with sunlight coming in through a window. I said I was new to bonsai (10 years) Not an idiot! I grow potted swamp trees of many speces in outdoor ponds, It's part of why I started growing trees. I love to see them growing out of the water and later i learned that a tree growing in an aquarium makes keeping black water fish much easier and the underwater display or roots makes for another dimension in both tree and aquarium keeping. I started out with just displays of Cypress growing in shallow bowls with azolla covering the water. I have progressed to very nice displays of various trees growing in aquariums where both the above water and below water parts of the plants can be seen. Incredibly interesting display. Due to a hurricane my greenhouse is now gone. so indoors is teh only place i can display my aquarium with trees. If you're doing this as a terrarium planting, you'll want to keep the moisture level high. Perhaps too high as I expect the glass will be constantly beaded with moisture and will therefore not be viewable from the outside (in which case, what's the point?). Moisture levels in the air ar not as important as you think but i do keep the trees semi inclosed as more of vivarium type set up. Water tupelo trees do fine like this, as do water apples, but not cypress trees. I used to think maybe it was day lenth but the use of varible timers show this isn't the case niether is winter temps since i could them at summer temps year round in the greenhouse. I kept tropical fish in them. If you're running your plants under halide lamps, you may be producing the heat, but are you producing the moisture? What size aquarium are you using (measurements in inches, not gallons please)? From 12"W X 24"L X12"H to 24"W X 60"L X16"H One reason I am detrimined to solve this problem is my greenhouse was blown away in a hurricane a fewe years ago and I am tired of not having the more intimate contact with my trees that I used to have Do you have a misting system or is it enclosed to keep the humidity high. Partially enclosed. What are your humidity and temperature readings for the plant? If you're going to play God with this tree, you'll have to know these numbers. Humidity would be nice for the tree over 80% (gut feeling because that's what it is in New Orleans most of the time). Everyone who grows bonsai is playing god and trees are much tougher than people give them credit for, see my moms cypress in the WVa mountians growing like crayzy in mostly dry clay with winter temps in the -0's at times in the winter Temperatures should be in the 80's and 90's during the summer. Thanks for the update. Having said that, I wonder if what the temperature differential is betweent the base and the apex of the tree. What good is it to get the base temperature at 85 degrees if the top, nearest the halide lamps, is at 110? That'd kill any plant. Again I am not an idiot, I do know to keep the lights away from the plants. Most plants even cacti would not do well too close to metal halides Further, would there be any differences between the base and apex humidity levels? I'm betting yes. Oh, man, this is complicated stuff. I like it better keeping outdoor trees outdoors. But hey, that's not the answer you're looking for. Exactly! Does the cypress spend any time outside in the winter? It really does need to lose it's leaves once a year. Only cold weather will do that. You need something below 45 degrees for weeks at a time. Not true it's day lenth that governs leaf loss on most trees, cypress included. Keeping in a hot house year round pretty much proved this Have you thought of hooking up a window air conditioner to your terrarium? But then, if you do that, you'll end up with water beading up on the OUTSIDE of the aquarium this time. And once again, non-viewable terrariums is not what you want. I have no probelm with water beading on the glass either way. Since you seemed determined to have an indoor display of cypress, I doubt you'll listen to the best advice of all: STOP KILLING THESE TREES IN YOUR HOUSE. I can only give you enough advice to keep the trees alive for a season or two (or is that a season or less?). My oldest tree is ten years old, the youngest is 2 years old, all were grown from seeds. Mind your own beeswax! And since this is a multispecies display, ho man is this getting complicated! Obviously you have nver been to a real swamp, most trees in a swamp grow all over each other. No muti species problems. If you can't suggest a type of lighting or some other useful info don't answer the questions. I'm not a troll, I was looking to see if anyone else had to keep their favorite trees under artificial lighting and if they did what kind. Bill Butler New Orleans, LA USDA Zone 9 www.gnobs.org (Club Auction on August 16, 2003) remove nospam from e-mail to send to me, I grow trees in aquariums like bonsai. I breed dwarf crayfish, great for planted community tanks. If you can get me a shovelnose sturgeon fingerling (Scaphirhynchus platorynchus) no wild caught please, contact me |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
One more thing, I have been keeping fish for 40 years, everyday i help dozens
of people who have probelms with their fish. Often they have done things that were not smart to say the least. I always try ot be as kind as possible and guide them in the right direction keeping in mind that everyone has their own unique problems and needs when keeping their fish. Never have i tried to make anyone feel stupid or inferior because they didn't keep the same fish as me to want to do it in the same way as me. Bill Butler you seemed to delight in trying your best to do both. If you are persopnifacation of the averge Bonsai grower then I feel for your hobby and the people who want to participate in it. A display of living creatures is always a difficult this to bring about but there is also never just one way to do it. If I stepped over teh line by asking for advice then i am sorry and i will never make that mistake again. |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
I can not speak to the Bald Cypress since I just got my first one the
summer. I am encouraged that Mom can grow them in WV since I live in Colorado and hope to keep mine alive. Currently it is outside in a tray filled with 2 to 3 inches of water. I can not advise you unfortunately on how to best grow them inside. I can tell you that I have a bookshelf with a florescent bulb (tye that go under cabinets) to provide additional light. I have been growing for the past year under these lights a Buttonwood and Sheferela. Both of which are doing quiet well. The Button wood, which I was told would not do well in this climate is recovering quite well in this cbine from some leaf scorch that it received outside as I was trying to acamatize it to outdoor conditions -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf Of Moontanman Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:56 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Artificial lighting I have more questions than answers on this one. That is, once I picked my jaw up off my chest. Ok I'll go through this one section at a time The Bald Cypress is a swamp tree. You cannot drown this tree. It'll tolerate frost in the winter, and hot and humid summers. The leaves prefer higher humidity than indoors can ever provide. I am well aware of the conditions that bald cypress will live under. I live in the middle of a cypress swamp! My mom who lives in the Mountains of WVa grows bald cypress out side with no problems as well as inside with sunlight coming in through a window. I said I was new to bonsai (10 years) Not an idiot! I grow potted swamp trees of many speces in outdoor ponds, It's part of why I started growing trees. I love to see them growing out of the water and later i learned that a tree growing in an aquarium makes keeping black water fish much easier and the underwater display or roots makes for another dimension in both tree and aquarium keeping. I started out with just displays of Cypress growing in shallow bowls with azolla covering the water. I have progressed to very nice displays of various trees growing in aquariums where both the above water and below water parts of the plants can be seen. Incredibly interesting display. Due to a hurricane my greenhouse is now gone. so indoors is teh only place i can display my aquarium with trees. If you're doing this as a terrarium planting, you'll want to keep the moisture level high. Perhaps too high as I expect the glass will be constantly beaded with moisture and will therefore not be viewable from the outside (in which case, what's the point?). Moisture levels in the air ar not as important as you think but i do keep the trees semi inclosed as more of vivarium type set up. Water tupelo trees do fine like this, as do water apples, but not cypress trees. I used to think maybe it was day lenth but the use of varible timers show this isn't the case niether is winter temps since i could them at summer temps year round in the greenhouse. I kept tropical fish in them. If you're running your plants under halide lamps, you may be producing the heat, but are you producing the moisture? What size aquarium are you using (measurements in inches, not gallons please)? From 12"W X 24"L X12"H to 24"W X 60"L X16"H One reason I am detrimined to solve this problem is my greenhouse was blown away in a hurricane a fewe years ago and I am tired of not having the more intimate contact with my trees that I used to have Do you have a misting system or is it enclosed to keep the humidity high. Partially enclosed. What are your humidity and temperature readings for the plant? If you're going to play God with this tree, you'll have to know these numbers. Humidity would be nice for the tree over 80% (gut feeling because that's what it is in New Orleans most of the time). Everyone who grows bonsai is playing god and trees are much tougher than people give them credit for, see my moms cypress in the WVa mountians growing like crayzy in mostly dry clay with winter temps in the -0's at times in the winter Temperatures should be in the 80's and 90's during the summer. Thanks for the update. Having said that, I wonder if what the temperature differential is betweent the base and the apex of the tree. What good is it to get the base temperature at 85 degrees if the top, nearest the halide lamps, is at 110? That'd kill any plant. Again I am not an idiot, I do know to keep the lights away from the plants. Most plants even cacti would not do well too close to metal halides Further, would there be any differences between the base and apex humidity levels? I'm betting yes. Oh, man, this is complicated stuff. I like it better keeping outdoor trees outdoors. But hey, that's not the answer you're looking for. Exactly! Does the cypress spend any time outside in the winter? It really does need to lose it's leaves once a year. Only cold weather will do that. You need something below 45 degrees for weeks at a time. Not true it's day lenth that governs leaf loss on most trees, cypress included. Keeping in a hot house year round pretty much proved this Have you thought of hooking up a window air conditioner to your terrarium? But then, if you do that, you'll end up with water beading up on the OUTSIDE of the aquarium this time. And once again, non-viewable terrariums is not what you want. I have no probelm with water beading on the glass either way. Since you seemed determined to have an indoor display of cypress, I doubt you'll listen to the best advice of all: STOP KILLING THESE TREES IN YOUR HOUSE. I can only give you enough advice to keep the trees alive for a season or two (or is that a season or less?). My oldest tree is ten years old, the youngest is 2 years old, all were grown from seeds. Mind your own beeswax! And since this is a multispecies display, ho man is this getting complicated! Obviously you have nver been to a real swamp, most trees in a swamp grow all over each other. No muti species problems. If you can't suggest a type of lighting or some other useful info don't answer the questions. I'm not a troll, I was looking to see if anyone else had to keep their favorite trees under artificial lighting and if they did what kind. Bill Butler New Orleans, LA USDA Zone 9 www.gnobs.org (Club Auction on August 16, 2003) remove nospam from e-mail to send to me, I grow trees in aquariums like bonsai. I breed dwarf crayfish, great for planted community tanks. If you can get me a shovelnose sturgeon fingerling (Scaphirhynchus platorynchus) no wild caught please, contact me ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
I can not speak to the Bald Cypress since I just got my first one the summer. I am encouraged that Mom can grow them in WV since I live in Colorado and hope to keep mine alive. Currently it is outside in a tray filled with 2 to 3 inches of water. I would be carful about growing cypress outside in colorado. MY mom grows them up to about two feet tall before planting them outside. she doesn't grow them as bonsai. Moon |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
One more thing, I have been keeping fish for 40 years, everyday
i help dozens of people who have probelms with their fish. Often they have done things that were not smart to say the least. I always try ot be as kind as possible and guide them in the right direction keeping in mind that everyone has their own unique problems and needs when keeping their fish. Never have i tried to make anyone feel stupid or inferior because they didn't keep the same fish as me to want to do it in the same way as me. Bill Butler you seemed to delight in trying your best to do both. If you are persopnifacation of the averge Bonsai grower then I feel for your hobby and the people who want to participate in it. A display of living creatures is always a difficult this to bring about but there is also never just one way to do it. If I stepped over teh line by asking for advice then i am sorry and i will never make that mistake again. A note from your listowner . . . A little nice, please folks? Moontanan, I don't think Bill was being purposefully unhelpful, though perhaps a bit undiplomatic. And it is NEVER helpful to address people personally on the list. If you have a difference, iron it out via PRIVATE mail. Public name calling just makes YOU look/sound ugly. Now, you are posting via rec.arts.bonsai. I cannot do much about that, but I CAN bar messages from R.A.B. individuals from reaching the linked mailing list, which is more than half of the participants here. So, let's all please be good. Thanks. That said, I'm sorry you lost your greenhouse, but I don't believe that any amount of wishing will allow bald cypress to thrive indoors. They may live for a while, but will decline and eventually die. Even trees that survive indoors (Serissa, ficus, etc.) do not really like it. Indoors is not the native habitat of any tree or shrub. Some can survive, most cannot. Some die almost immediately, others decline over a period of years. The result is the same. A physiological fact of life (or death). Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase 'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Manuael:
As far as the Buttonwood, I had the same experience with leaf scorch, so I am also growing mine indoors. I did put the Buttonwood in an enclosed structure, like a mini greenhouse (I call it my ICU) for over a month and it recovered from its bout with the sun.... Now that it is recovered I water it and fertilize the Buttonwood with a 1/4 tsp of Miracid for five days and two days with plain water to wash any salt build up. I also keep my Buttonwood on a propagation mat, since it loves to have warm feet! Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7 http://bmee.net/rosner http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48 Manuel A Chavez wrote: I can not speak to the Bald Cypress since I just got my first one the summer. I am encouraged that Mom can grow them in WV since I live in Colorado and hope to keep mine alive. Currently it is outside in a tray filled with 2 to 3 inches of water. I can not advise you unfortunately on how to best grow them inside. I can tell you that I have a bookshelf with a florescent bulb (tye that go under cabinets) to provide additional light. I have been growing for the past year under these lights a Buttonwood and Sheferela. Both of which are doing quiet well. The Button wood, which I was told would not do well in this climate is recovering quite well in this cbine from some leaf scorch that it received outside as I was trying to acamatize it to outdoor conditions ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Jim Lewis wrote:
BIG snip Even trees that survive indoors (Serissa, ficus, etc.) do not really like it. Indoors is not the native habitat of any tree or shrub. Some can survive, most cannot. Some die almost immediately, others decline over a period of years. The result is the same. A physiological fact of life (or death). Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase 'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman As a good example, I have two chinese elms, one of which I acquired this year. The other I've had for a couple of years. I had it indoors the winter before last. It survived but did not thrive. It put out half-hearted leggy shoots and had large leaves. Last winter I kept it outdoors with the other hardy trees. The difference is astonishing. It has small leaves, short internodes, and was strong enough to withstand a black fungus infection. It's leafing back nicely now. I'll never keep these trees indoors after seeing the difference. Whatever I gained by having this tree outdoors during the growing season I lost indoors over the winter. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Carl,
Thanks for the responses. I have a few questions. Now that your buttonwood has recovered do you continue to grow it in you ICU area? How often n an average are you watering it? The 1/4 tsp Miracid, is that per gallon of water? Finally. mine is currently on a humidity tray, I have thought of using a propagation at instead of the humidity tray. If I do should I supplement the humidity by other means? Thanks in advance for your help. Manny -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf Of Carl L Rosner Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:20 AM To: Subject: [IBC] Artificial lighting Manuael: As far as the Buttonwood, I had the same experience with leaf scorch, so I am also growing mine indoors. I did put the Buttonwood in an enclosed structure, like a mini greenhouse (I call it my ICU) for over a month and it recovered from its bout with the sun.... Now that it is recovered I water it and fertilize the Buttonwood with a 1/4 tsp of Miracid for five days and two days with plain water to wash any salt build up. I also keep my Buttonwood on a propagation mat, since it loves to have warm feet! Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7 http://bmee.net/rosner http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...page&artistid= 0000006848 Manuel A Chavez wrote: I can not speak to the Bald Cypress since I just got my first one the summer. I am encouraged that Mom can grow them in WV since I live in Colorado and hope to keep mine alive. Currently it is outside in a tray filled with 2 to 3 inches of water. I can not advise you unfortunately on how to best grow them inside. I can tell you that I have a bookshelf with a florescent bulb (tye that go under cabinets) to provide additional light. I have been growing for the past year under these lights a Buttonwood and Sheferela. Both of which are doing quiet well. The Button wood, which I was told would not do well in this climate is recovering quite well in this cbine from some leaf scorch that it received outside as I was trying to acamatize it to outdoor conditions ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Manny:
I'll answer each question individually: Manuel A Chavez wrote: Carl, Thanks for the responses. I have a few questions. Now that your buttonwood has recovered do you continue to grow it in you ICU area? NO. I have it on a propagation mat. In the corner between a southern exposure window and a Western Exposure window. How often n an average are you watering it? The 1/4 tsp Miracid, is that per gallon of water? I water my Buttonwood every single day. I have a fairly loose soil with a handful of regular garden dirt added. The 1/4 tsp Miracid is to a gallon of water. . Finally. mine is currently on a humidity tray, I have thought of using a propagation at instead of the humidity tray. If I do should I supplement the humidity by other means? Thanks in advance for your help. I found that humidity trays do absolutely little if nothing to raise the humidity around the tree/s. I have a Humidifier in my Green house, which operates 24 hours a day, except this time of the year, since I have my green house open. I don't quite remember where you live, but I live several blocks from the ocean on one side and several blocks from the bay. This time of year we have about a 55 to 65% humidity. In the winter I keep my greenhouse at about the same humidity. It is too much humidity for the inside of the house. Every spring I have to clean and scrape the green algae off the windows and doors and walls... I also have an oscillating fan running 24/7. That keeps the pest population down to almost 0. The apiders seem to take care of any pests that manage to land on my 40 some indoor trees. I hope this helps. Best regards, and if I can be of further help, just ask. Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7 http://bmee.net/rosner http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
That said, I'm sorry you lost your greenhouse, but I don't believe that any amount of wishing will allow bald cypress to thrive indoors. They may live for a while, but will decline and eventually die. Even trees that survive indoors (Serissa, ficus, etc.) do not really like it. Indoors is not the native habitat of any tree or shrub. Some can survive, most cannot. Some die almost immediately, others decline over a period of years. The result is the same. A physiological fact of life (or death). So what you are saying is that even though my tupelos and mangroves and even my umbrella plams (not trees) nearly need to be trimmed with a chain saw they grow so fast there is no way i can get my Bald cypress to grow inside? the mangrove trees act like they would like to wrap around the metal halide bulb as do the umbrella palms. I do indeed provide a mostly inclosed environment for my vivariums ( you really can't call them aquariums ) to promote moisture and so far only cattails and bald cypress are really giving me a hard time. I wish everyone could have seen my 125 gallon aquarium with 1 water tupello, 3 bald cypress, 1 mangrove, a patch of dwarf cattails, dwarf umbrella palms and many moses ferns and bromillads growing as epiphytes. Not to mention submerged plants water lillies and a lotus. with a huge school of cardinal tetras, glass catfish, striped African glass catfish, double trunked elephantnose fish, upside down catfish, blue spotted sunfish, black banded sunfish, freshwater flounders, shrimp, dwarf crayfish, clams and snails. even the local public aquarium people were impressed. maybe i'll just cut a hole in the wall and mount the aquarium outside inside it's own greenhouse... I could make the aquarium bigger and the display even better! The water trees take up so much nutrients the fish absolutely glow with their natural colors. Of course i may have to get a new wife.... surely there are women who like fish and trees as much as i do! Just kidding but i do intend to solve this problem. I'm just too old to stop now! Moon |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
BTW I do have a nice Beech tree bonsai that is about four years old and it is
coming along really well. Nice above the soil roots and great trunk. but it as you said I kept it outside in the weather. I am sorry for the personal attack but experts need to be kind, helpful, and understanding if any of our hobbies are to survive. After 40 years of keeping fish, plants, and now trees I find my hobbies to be a never ending source of challenge, satisfaction, socialization, learning, and those great big smiles that last for hours at a time. if that were to stop then why bother? Moon Moon |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
That said, I'm sorry you lost your greenhouse, but I don't believe that any amount of wishing will allow bald cypress to thrive indoors. They may live for a while, but will decline and eventually die. Even trees that survive indoors (Serissa, ficus, etc.) do not really like it. Indoors is not the native habitat of any tree or shrub. Some can survive, most cannot. Some die almost immediately, others decline over a period of years. The result is the same. A physiological fact of life (or death). So what you are saying is that even though my tupelos and mangroves and even my umbrella plams (not trees) nearly need to be trimmed with a chain saw they grow so fast there is no way i can get my Bald cypress to grow inside? I think that "survive" was the key term, but . . . Yes. Mangroves and whatever that umbrella palm is are "tropical" trees. Bald cypress are NOT tropical, or even semi-tropical. But . . . neither are tupelo. How long have you had the tupelos growing inside? (I can't imagine that tupelo leaves reduce enough to be attractive???). My swamp here at the farm is filled with several species of Nyssa, and I have never even thought of them as bonsai. (And it would be a heckuva lot easier to carry on a conversation if you didn't have that doctored e-mail addy.) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase 'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Good Day to All,
Jim, I have been watching the min/max temperature for my area since February or so.It's averaging 90 deg.F [ 32 deg.C ] by day and a little less than 75 deg.F [25 deg.C or so] with spikes at over 90 for an hour during the driest months. [It will get colder around October.] The dawn has shifted from 6.15 a.m to 5.45 a.m or so and same for the evening. Hottest part of the day was 12.00 noon,now 2.00p.m There is normally a breeze with lulls now and then. Dew fall is heavy some days and non-existent on others. Humidity fell to 40/45 after 10.00 a.m slowly back up to 80 % in the late evening.As the rain is falling it's just before 90 % as there is a breeze. If I were attempting to grow indoors,I would begin with and average of the above,but I think the full sun would have to be exchanged for bright heatless illumination from all angles.Top,bottom and middle of the tree's canopy,with a mirror for a stand[or base.] A great science experiment.I am glad I don't have to do this. Sadly,I must also tell you that the swamp cypress loves the tropics as well.Usually self induced dormancy and aggressive in new growth. It's pouring cats and dogs,been so for the week,but I braved the elements,because your worth it and my tree is still very green and healthy.It is about 23 years or so old,out of Lafayette,Louisiana. Khaimraj [West Indies/Caribbean The soggy lands] -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lewis To: Date: 12 July 2003 14:27 Subject: [IBC] Artificial lighting snip I think that "survive" was the key term, but . . . Yes. Mangroves and whatever that umbrella palm is are "tropical" trees. Bald cypress are NOT tropical, or even semi-tropical. snip Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase 'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Sadly,I must also tell you that the swamp cypress loves
the tropics as well.Usually self induced dormancy and aggressive in new growth. Why sadly, Khaimraj ? They _should_ like it down there . . . though, except for the Montezuma cypress (which more and more taxonomists feel is NOT a separate species, but a subspecies of T. distichum) it doesn't naturally grow down there. Still it gets fresh air and REAL sun, so it should do fine. Indoors, it gets neither -- no matter how many artificial substitutes one might try to give it. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase 'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Montezuma cypress (which more and more taxonomists feel is NOT a
separate species, but a subspecies of T. distichum) it doesn't naturally grow down there. Still it gets fresh air and REAL sun, so it should do fine. Indoors, it gets neither -- no matter how many artificial substitutes one might try to give it. I don't understand the desire some of this group seems to have to think that plants only do well out doors. so many plants are grown indoors with artificial everything and they grow so much better than indoors in almost scary. why the predudice for out door growing? Moon |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
(And it would be a heckuva lot easier to carry on a conversation
if you didn't have that doctored e-mail addy.) What do you mean? |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
At 02:08 AM 7/13/03 +0000, Moontanman wrote:
I don't understand the desire some of this group seems to have to think that plants only do well out doors. so many plants are grown indoors with artificial everything and they grow so much better than indoors in almost scary. why the predudice for out door growing? Moon Tradition. We borrowed this sport from the Japanese and made it into something else. It would be as if the Japanese tried to play baseball in Samurai gear. The rules would have to change to accommodate the choice of uniform. So if we take an outside tree and bring it indoors, it is not quite bonsai because it breaks tradition. It might look like a bonsai and you may love it. You may not be able to enjoy dwarfed trees any other way. As I said before, do what brings you joy. Do not look for others to approve your joy for surely you will lose it. Kitsune Miko Seascape In a saucer Feast for the eyes ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
I don't understand the desire some of this group seems to have to think that plants only do well out doors. so many plants are grown indoors with artificial everything and they grow so much better than indoors in almost scary. why the predudice for out door growing? It isn't prejudice. (Well, for me it is -- Except for temporary display, I HATE trees in the house with me! ;-) But for most here it's not prejudice . . . it is the simple fact that some species of trees will NOT grow indoors. But as Kitsune says, if you wanna do it -- then do it! (But common courtesy at least suggests that you might listen to folks who have been growing trees -- in and out doors for a LONG time . .. .nearly 30 years in my case. So . . . do it and don't worry about whether we want to follow suit. Or not. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - "People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plum full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone." -- Uncle Dave Macon, old-time musician ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Moon: I, for one, am curious to see what you are talking about. Would you mind
taking a few photos of your "vivarium" plantings and post them on the IBC Virtual Gallery? You can find it and directions on how to post at: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ag...bonsaiclub&bn= Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA http://LCBSBonsai.org http://bonsai-bci.com ================================ That said, I'm sorry you lost your greenhouse, but I don't believe that any amount of wishing will allow bald cypress to thrive indoors. They may live for a while, but will decline and eventually die. Even trees that survive indoors (Serissa, ficus, etc.) do not really like it. Indoors is not the native habitat of any tree or shrub. Some can survive, most cannot. Some die almost immediately, others decline over a period of years. The result is the same. A physiological fact of life (or death). ============== Moontanman wrote: So what you are saying is that even though my tupelos and mangroves and even my umbrella palms (not trees) nearly need to be trimmed with a chain saw they grow so fast there is no way i can get my Bald cypress to grow inside? the mangrove trees act like they would like to wrap around the metal halide bulb as do the umbrella palms. I do indeed provide a mostly enclosed environment for my vivariums (you really can't call them aquariums) to promote moisture and so far only cattails and bald cypress are really giving me a hard time. I wish everyone could have seen my 125 gallon aquarium with 1 water tupelo, 3 bald cypress, 1 mangrove, a patch of dwarf cattails, dwarf umbrella palms and many moses ferns and bromeliads growing as epiphytes. Not to mention submerged plants water lilies and a lotus. with a huge school of cardinal tetras, glass catfish, striped African glass catfish, double trunked elephantnose fish, upside down catfish, blue spotted sunfish, black banded sunfish, freshwater flounders, shrimp, dwarf crayfish, clams and snails. even the local public aquarium people were impressed. maybe i'll just cut a hole in the wall and mount the aquarium outside inside it's own greenhouse... I could make the aquarium bigger and the display even better! The water trees take up so much nutrients the fish absolutely glow with their natural colors. Of course i may have to get a new wife.... surely there are women who like fish and trees as much as i do! Just kidding but i do intend to solve this problem. I'm just too old to stop now! Moon ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
I am sorry but i don't have a scanner or many photos for that matter. Photos
have just never been my thing. I do have a few of various experiments along thos lines and i do plan to get a scanner at some point. so many people want pics of my old greenhouse and the 3000 gallon aquarium i built about 20 years ago I really feel compelled to get a scanner and dig out what pictures i do have. At the time i never figured on the internet or any one wanting to see my "oddness" but my neighbors. At one time they called me "marine land of van buren st" I should have charged all the kids i had to give tours to. maybe i could have rebult some of it. I will see what i can do. Moon |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
I am sorry but i don't have a scanner or many photos for that
matter. Photos have just never been my thing. I do have a few of various experiments along thos lines and i do plan to get a scanner at some point. so many people want pics of my old greenhouse and the 3000 gallon aquarium i built about 20 years ago I really feel compelled to get a scanner and dig out what pictures i do have. At the time i never figured on the internet or any one wanting to see my "oddness" but my neighbors. At one time they called me "marine land of van buren st" I should have charged all the kids i had to give tours to. maybe i could have rebult some of it. I will see what i can do. You can get an inexpensive digital camera for the cost of a scanner and find many more uses for it (IMHO). Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - "People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plum full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone." -- Uncle Dave Macon, old-time musician ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
You can get an inexpensive digital camera for the cost of a
scanner and find many more uses for it (IMHO). Not for me, I'm disabled from an industrial accedent and money for cameras in't in the budget. Maybe someday. Moon remove nospam from e-mail to send to me, I grow trees in aquariums like bonsai. I breed dwarf crayfish, great for planted community tanks. If you can get me a shovelnose sturgeon fingerling (Scaphirhynchus platorynchus) no wild caught please, contact me |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Not for me, I'm disabled from an industrial accedent and money for cameras in't in the budget. Maybe someday. Not much to take pictures oif now, all trees are in pots in ponds in my back yard. Moon |
[IBC] Artificial lighting
Just trying to help. Your post prompted more questions than
information. Sorry if I offended you. I guess the gist of what I was trying to say was that by the time you figure out what it's going to take to get the bald cypress to grow successfully indoors, you'll have upset what's working for the rest of your trees. (maybe a Dupla substrate heater?) You have a nice day. Bill Butler |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:21 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter