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[IBC] Ciment Fondu
Hypertufa is a way of making 'artificial' Tufa - which is a light
weight stone that can be easily carved. Hypertufa is typically 1 part portland cement, then one part peatmoss, and one part sand or pearlite. It's easy to cast, and can be carved somewhat when green. It makes a lightweight 'stone' that, after a year or so in the weather can support mosses, lichens and algae for a natural look. Ciment Fondu is a high-alumina cement that dries and cures very fast, making multi-layer design simpler. I couln't find it where i live, but i've used "wall cement" instead. This is a very tacky cement that's full of fiberglass shreds for strength. It works well but you've got to burn off the protruding fibers in your 'stone' .... not that hard. "Peter K." wrote in message ... Can someone tell me what exactly cement fondue is? I know what hypertufa is, is cf similar? -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b "dalecochoy" wrote in message news:002201c3f67c$57aae120$0430fea9@dalespc... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Thomas" Subject: [IBC] Ciment Fondu Allen, et al.: I have been following this thread with interest because I had never heard of Ciment Fondu until noting its use in the projects from this beautiful book. Bart, I'm suprised. I thought Chase had done some work with it. If you have the BCI "Indices" you could search it. I remember several years Back when Bill V. had speakers ( Bill Jordan) who did some Ciment Fondue work. I remembr they made a tall mountain that my late friend Mel Tellus bought in the Saturday night auction. I'm sure these pics are in the old mags. Bill, what issue? Shortly after that Brussel began making/selling many sizes of slabs made from it. My old business partner and I got a couple Japanese imported fiberglass slabs and made silicone molds of them and sold them for several years until sales dropped off. I thought Brussel still made them, but, perhaps not if not in his catalog anymore. He had some huge ones.His sales of them probably started to slow down also and since they were labor intensive......they are dropped. My buddy and I got our ciment fondue from a dealer in Cleveland and, as Mike Persianno stated, it was made by Le Farge. It was pretty expensive stuff compaired to mortar., 90 pound bags as I recall, could be colored easily with mortar colors you can get at any supply store. I still have a couple "scoop pots" I made from it over window screen forms. I keep moving them around in my pot shelves in my tea house :) I made several mountains in the past which I donated for auction at some shows. . Somewhere I have pics of these. I used the window screen forms ( you could also use hardware cloth/chicken wire but you got nice bends with window screen.) and then they were made ala paper mache' by cutting strips of fiberglass auto body repai cloth, soaking them in ciment fondue and laying on. After covering you could apply several coats of CF with a brush over next few days. In using the silicone molds we simply covered an existing fiberglass imported slab with mold release and used caulk guns with 100% silicone caulk and the same fiberglass auto body strips ( for strength) to cover the slab. After it set it pulled off and we had a mold that you could lay over a small pile of sand that could be arranged to different shapes however you liked. Regards, Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com Specializing in power wood carving tools. Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
Hypertufa is a way of making 'artificial' Tufa - which is a light
weight stone that can be easily carved. Hypertufa is typically 1 part portland cement, then one part peatmoss, and one part sand or pearlite. It's easy to cast, and can be carved somewhat when green. It makes a lightweight 'stone' that, after a year or so in the weather can support mosses, lichens and algae for a natural look. Ciment Fondu is a high-alumina cement that dries and cures very fast, making multi-layer design simpler. I couln't find it where i live, but i've used "wall cement" instead. This is a very tacky cement that's full of fiberglass shreds for strength. It works well but you've got to burn off the protruding fibers in your 'stone' .... not that hard. "Peter K." wrote in message ... Can someone tell me what exactly cement fondue is? I know what hypertufa is, is cf similar? -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b "dalecochoy" wrote in message news:002201c3f67c$57aae120$0430fea9@dalespc... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Thomas" Subject: [IBC] Ciment Fondu Allen, et al.: I have been following this thread with interest because I had never heard of Ciment Fondu until noting its use in the projects from this beautiful book. Bart, I'm suprised. I thought Chase had done some work with it. If you have the BCI "Indices" you could search it. I remember several years Back when Bill V. had speakers ( Bill Jordan) who did some Ciment Fondue work. I remembr they made a tall mountain that my late friend Mel Tellus bought in the Saturday night auction. I'm sure these pics are in the old mags. Bill, what issue? Shortly after that Brussel began making/selling many sizes of slabs made from it. My old business partner and I got a couple Japanese imported fiberglass slabs and made silicone molds of them and sold them for several years until sales dropped off. I thought Brussel still made them, but, perhaps not if not in his catalog anymore. He had some huge ones.His sales of them probably started to slow down also and since they were labor intensive......they are dropped. My buddy and I got our ciment fondue from a dealer in Cleveland and, as Mike Persianno stated, it was made by Le Farge. It was pretty expensive stuff compaired to mortar., 90 pound bags as I recall, could be colored easily with mortar colors you can get at any supply store. I still have a couple "scoop pots" I made from it over window screen forms. I keep moving them around in my pot shelves in my tea house :) I made several mountains in the past which I donated for auction at some shows. . Somewhere I have pics of these. I used the window screen forms ( you could also use hardware cloth/chicken wire but you got nice bends with window screen.) and then they were made ala paper mache' by cutting strips of fiberglass auto body repai cloth, soaking them in ciment fondue and laying on. After covering you could apply several coats of CF with a brush over next few days. In using the silicone molds we simply covered an existing fiberglass imported slab with mold release and used caulk guns with 100% silicone caulk and the same fiberglass auto body strips ( for strength) to cover the slab. After it set it pulled off and we had a mold that you could lay over a small pile of sand that could be arranged to different shapes however you liked. Regards, Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com Specializing in power wood carving tools. Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
Hypertufa is a way of making 'artificial' Tufa - which is a light
weight stone that can be easily carved. Hypertufa is typically 1 part portland cement, then one part peatmoss, and one part sand or pearlite. It's easy to cast, and can be carved somewhat when green. It makes a lightweight 'stone' that, after a year or so in the weather can support mosses, lichens and algae for a natural look. Ciment Fondu is a high-alumina cement that dries and cures very fast, making multi-layer design simpler. I couln't find it where i live, but i've used "wall cement" instead. This is a very tacky cement that's full of fiberglass shreds for strength. It works well but you've got to burn off the protruding fibers in your 'stone' .... not that hard. "Peter K." wrote in message ... Can someone tell me what exactly cement fondue is? I know what hypertufa is, is cf similar? -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b "dalecochoy" wrote in message news:002201c3f67c$57aae120$0430fea9@dalespc... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Thomas" Subject: [IBC] Ciment Fondu Allen, et al.: I have been following this thread with interest because I had never heard of Ciment Fondu until noting its use in the projects from this beautiful book. Bart, I'm suprised. I thought Chase had done some work with it. If you have the BCI "Indices" you could search it. I remember several years Back when Bill V. had speakers ( Bill Jordan) who did some Ciment Fondue work. I remembr they made a tall mountain that my late friend Mel Tellus bought in the Saturday night auction. I'm sure these pics are in the old mags. Bill, what issue? Shortly after that Brussel began making/selling many sizes of slabs made from it. My old business partner and I got a couple Japanese imported fiberglass slabs and made silicone molds of them and sold them for several years until sales dropped off. I thought Brussel still made them, but, perhaps not if not in his catalog anymore. He had some huge ones.His sales of them probably started to slow down also and since they were labor intensive......they are dropped. My buddy and I got our ciment fondue from a dealer in Cleveland and, as Mike Persianno stated, it was made by Le Farge. It was pretty expensive stuff compaired to mortar., 90 pound bags as I recall, could be colored easily with mortar colors you can get at any supply store. I still have a couple "scoop pots" I made from it over window screen forms. I keep moving them around in my pot shelves in my tea house :) I made several mountains in the past which I donated for auction at some shows. . Somewhere I have pics of these. I used the window screen forms ( you could also use hardware cloth/chicken wire but you got nice bends with window screen.) and then they were made ala paper mache' by cutting strips of fiberglass auto body repai cloth, soaking them in ciment fondue and laying on. After covering you could apply several coats of CF with a brush over next few days. In using the silicone molds we simply covered an existing fiberglass imported slab with mold release and used caulk guns with 100% silicone caulk and the same fiberglass auto body strips ( for strength) to cover the slab. After it set it pulled off and we had a mold that you could lay over a small pile of sand that could be arranged to different shapes however you liked. Regards, Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com Specializing in power wood carving tools. Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
In a message dated 2/19/2004 12:22:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
Hi Kevin. You graciously write, Don't forget to add the magic ingredient - a proportion of Ordinary Cement, or the rapid set is not achieved When my bonsai club created a ciment fondue slabs, they set for at least 24 hours. We might well have used Portland cement-- I would guess that we did. Is there advantage to rapid-setting other than being "rapid?" Perhaps 24 hour setting is rapid though it would seem painfully slow for curing our thin pours. LaFarge Ciment Fondue should be allowed to slowly cure to avoid cracking and thereby ensure the slab's ability to endure extreme heat and cold. I recommend spraying the slab during the first day of curing. My personal opinion is that the design of the slab should be the primary concern and not the speed with which the mixture dries. Creating a credible, non-molded slab is a difficult thing to pull off. Cordially, Michael Persiano ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
In a message dated 2/19/2004 12:22:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
Hi Kevin. You graciously write, Don't forget to add the magic ingredient - a proportion of Ordinary Cement, or the rapid set is not achieved When my bonsai club created a ciment fondue slabs, they set for at least 24 hours. We might well have used Portland cement-- I would guess that we did. Is there advantage to rapid-setting other than being "rapid?" Perhaps 24 hour setting is rapid though it would seem painfully slow for curing our thin pours. LaFarge Ciment Fondue should be allowed to slowly cure to avoid cracking and thereby ensure the slab's ability to endure extreme heat and cold. I recommend spraying the slab during the first day of curing. My personal opinion is that the design of the slab should be the primary concern and not the speed with which the mixture dries. Creating a credible, non-molded slab is a difficult thing to pull off. Cordially, Michael Persiano ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
In a message dated 2/19/2004 12:22:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
Hi Kevin. You graciously write, Don't forget to add the magic ingredient - a proportion of Ordinary Cement, or the rapid set is not achieved When my bonsai club created a ciment fondue slabs, they set for at least 24 hours. We might well have used Portland cement-- I would guess that we did. Is there advantage to rapid-setting other than being "rapid?" Perhaps 24 hour setting is rapid though it would seem painfully slow for curing our thin pours. LaFarge Ciment Fondue should be allowed to slowly cure to avoid cracking and thereby ensure the slab's ability to endure extreme heat and cold. I recommend spraying the slab during the first day of curing. My personal opinion is that the design of the slab should be the primary concern and not the speed with which the mixture dries. Creating a credible, non-molded slab is a difficult thing to pull off. Cordially, Michael Persiano ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
Back to the original question, does anyone know where to get LaFarge
Ciment Fondue ? I have been unable to find it anywhere. Bob Seele Nicely outside of Chicago Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler : Albert Einstein ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
In a message dated 2/20/2004 2:55:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
Back to the original question, does anyone know where to get LaFarge Ciment Fondue ? I will dig it up. I wrote an extensive article in BT many years ago on a slab project. I will identify the number for those who have interest, and I will also provide additional details of other essential ingredients for the slabs. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
A google search brought up their homepage of
http://www.lcainc.com/index.html which lists some contact info. You could e-mail and ask for a distributor in your area. It looks like they have affiliates around the world. Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Robert Seele Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 11:55 AM To: Subject: [IBC] Ciment Fondu Back to the original question, does anyone know where to get LaFarge Ciment Fondue ? I have been unable to find it anywhere. Bob Seele Nicely outside of Chicago Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler : Albert Einstein ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
In a message dated 2/20/2004 2:56:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes: Back to the original question, does anyone know where to get LaFarge Ciment Fondue ? The article on slab creation is issue 44 of Bonsai Today. One product that has not been mentioned in Secar 71. This should be used as a surfacing agent to create the appropriate stone texture. This is accomplished by plopping it onto the Ciment Fondu. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
In a message dated 2/20/2004 2:56:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes: Back to the original question, does anyone know where to get LaFarge Ciment Fondue ? The article on slab creation is issue 44 of Bonsai Today. One product that has not been mentioned in Secar 71. This should be used as a surfacing agent to create the appropriate stone texture. This is accomplished by plopping it onto the Ciment Fondu. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
In a message dated 2/20/2004 2:56:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes: Back to the original question, does anyone know where to get LaFarge Ciment Fondue ? The article on slab creation is issue 44 of Bonsai Today. One product that has not been mentioned in Secar 71. This should be used as a surfacing agent to create the appropriate stone texture. This is accomplished by plopping it onto the Ciment Fondu. Cordially, Michael Persiano members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Persiano" Subject: [IBC] Ciment Fondu One product that has not been mentioned in Secar 71. This should be used as a surfacing agent to create the appropriate stone texture. This is accomplished by plopping it onto the Ciment Fondu. Cordially, Michael Persiano Mike, I remember your article. The way I finished my ciment fondue items was that on the last brushed on coat of CF I added a little more sand and it gave a nice stoney texture to the finished item. In fact, I never tried thism but see no reason why larger silica sand or haydite couldn't also be added for the last couple coats. Regards, Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com Specializing in power wood carving tools. Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Ciment Fondu
Folks,
Since there seemed to be a bit of interest in making ciment fondue slabs I posted some pics on the main gallery of slabs/mountains/scoops I made several years ago along with some tried&true methods ( which I covered well in my previous post). These were all made with LeFarge Ciment Fondue mix. They are VERY sturdy. If you are thinking about giving it a try take a look at some of the types of things I used to make and sell. Now....I've moved on to ceramics :) Regards, Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com Specializing in power wood carving tools. Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware LaFarge Ciment Fondue should be allowed to slowly cure to avoid cracking and thereby ensure the slab's ability to endure extreme heat and cold. I recommend spraying the slab during the first day of curing. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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