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[IBC] Name Meaning
Can any of you folks who know Japanese tell me what the name Natsukoyuki
means? (It's an orchid hybrid.) Am I correct in assuming it is accented on the first and third syllables? Iris I am not fat. I need repotting. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
This info is good. I'll be adding it up in our "Bonsai Dictionary", could
be useful. That is, I'll add it now, and it'll appear when the revamp of the site goes public, which is a while away still. Too much to do :o On 15/10/2004 15:19:39, wrote: Iris: FWIW Dept. Natsu = summer Koyu = peculiar or characteristic Ki = tree ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Nic: I wouldn't put much stock in it. I just got these straight
out of Kodansha's Romanized Japanese-English Dictionary. Much more useful is Yuji Yoshimura's classic listing of Japanese names for trees which can be found in Appendix 3 of Yoshimura & Halford's The Japanese Art of Miniature Trees and Landscapes. In the version I'm looking at now, it is on pp. 184-205. There are 340 listings from abura-giri to zumi. Since this is a classic bonsai book, long in print, which everyone who is serious about bonsai should have, I recommend that you simply refer them to this resource for Japanese tree names. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Nicolas Steenhout This info is good. I'll be adding it up in our "Bonsai Dictionary", could be useful. That is, I'll add it now, and it'll appear when the revamp of the site goes public, which is a while away still. Too much to do :o On 15/10/2004 15:19:39, wrote: Iris: FWIW Dept. Natsu = summer Koyu = peculiar or characteristic Ki = tree ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
wouldn't put much stock in it. I just got these straight
out of Kodansha's Romanized Japanese-English Dictionary. Ok, fair enough :) Since this is a classic bonsai book, long in print, which everyone who is serious about bonsai should have, I recommend that you simply refer them to this resource for Japanese tree names. While I understand the concept and where you're coming from, I have to say that as a *user*, if I came to the IBC site and was looking for information, only to be referred to a book, I would not be impressed. There are *several* factors why some people don't acquire books or why refering them to a book from the site isn't always the best option.. Could be that it can't be afforded. Could be that there's no space to keep books. Could be that the person in question doesn't want books. Could be that the person lives in a small town where the only bookstore (if there is one) doesn't carry this book. Could be that the person wants the information at the time they are surfing (like 3am). Etc. Just my 2 cents. N ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Natsu = summer
Koyu = peculiar or characteristic Ki = tree The plant in question is a compact white Cattleya, smaller than standard size. According to Bill Valavanis, natsu means summer, as you said, but he divided the rest of the word differently. Yuki means snow and ko may mean small, and that explanation makes the most sense. Many white flowers are given names relating to "snow in summer", so the name means something like a little snow in summer or snow in summer on something small. Can't be more definite unless the Royal Horticultural Society starts publishing its database in Kanji. If you're curious, you can find it on the Web as Cattleya Angelwalker x Hawaiian Wedding Song 'Snow White.' Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
Good points, at least most of them. I think that starting
a reference is a good idea, too. Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. I just don't really see a practical (and legal) way to get people to this extensive copyrighted information besides referring them to the source ultimately. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Nicolas Steenhout wouldn't put much stock in it. I just got these straight out of Kodansha's Romanized Japanese-English Dictionary. Ok, fair enough :) Since this is a classic bonsai book, long in print, which everyone who is serious about bonsai should have, I recommend that you simply refer them to this resource for Japanese tree names. While I understand the concept and where you're coming from, I have to say that as a *user*, if I came to the IBC site and was looking for information, only to be referred to a book, I would not be impressed. There are *several* factors why some people don't acquire books or why refering them to a book from the site isn't always the best option.. Could be that it can't be afforded. Could be that there's no space to keep books. Could be that the person in question doesn't want books. Could be that the person lives in a small town where the only bookstore (if there is one) doesn't carry this book. Could be that the person wants the information at the time they are surfing (like 3am). Etc. Just my 2 cents. N ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Good points, at least most of them. I think that starting
a reference is a good idea, too. Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. I just don't really see a practical (and legal) way to get people to this extensive copyrighted information besides referring them to the source ultimately. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Nicolas Steenhout wouldn't put much stock in it. I just got these straight out of Kodansha's Romanized Japanese-English Dictionary. Ok, fair enough :) Since this is a classic bonsai book, long in print, which everyone who is serious about bonsai should have, I recommend that you simply refer them to this resource for Japanese tree names. While I understand the concept and where you're coming from, I have to say that as a *user*, if I came to the IBC site and was looking for information, only to be referred to a book, I would not be impressed. There are *several* factors why some people don't acquire books or why refering them to a book from the site isn't always the best option.. Could be that it can't be afforded. Could be that there's no space to keep books. Could be that the person in question doesn't want books. Could be that the person lives in a small town where the only bookstore (if there is one) doesn't carry this book. Could be that the person wants the information at the time they are surfing (like 3am). Etc. Just my 2 cents. N ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Alan:
The Yoshimura book is several decades old and in the last three years I found that many of its references and listed usages have been replaced in colloquial Japanese. A language is a living thing and terminology does change over time. I have found that out while visiting my native Hungary where my speech pattern and use of idioms were referred to as "quaint" by the youngsters. I don't believe that the lists of terms as tree names used in Yoshimura's book are subject to copyright. But I could be wrong. I am very supportive of Nic's idea of having a Romanized Japanese - English tree name cross reference list. Cheers. Peter Aradi Tulsa, Oklahoma -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Alan Walker Sent: 2004. október 15. 11:57 To: Subject: [IBC] Name Meaning Good points, at least most of them. I think that starting a reference is a good idea, too. Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. I just don't really see a practical (and legal) way to get people to this extensive copyrighted information besides referring them to the source ultimately. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Nicolas Steenhout wouldn't put much stock in it. I just got these straight out of Kodansha's Romanized Japanese-English Dictionary. Ok, fair enough :) Since this is a classic bonsai book, long in print, which everyone who is serious about bonsai should have, I recommend that you simply refer them to this resource for Japanese tree names. While I understand the concept and where you're coming from, I have to say that as a *user*, if I came to the IBC site and was looking for information, only to be referred to a book, I would not be impressed. There are *several* factors why some people don't acquire books or why refering them to a book from the site isn't always the best option.. Could be that it can't be afforded. Could be that there's no space to keep books. Could be that the person in question doesn't want books. Could be that the person lives in a small town where the only bookstore (if there is one) doesn't carry this book. Could be that the person wants the information at the time they are surfing (like 3am). Etc. Just my 2 cents. N ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Alan:
The Yoshimura book is several decades old and in the last three years I found that many of its references and listed usages have been replaced in colloquial Japanese. A language is a living thing and terminology does change over time. I have found that out while visiting my native Hungary where my speech pattern and use of idioms were referred to as "quaint" by the youngsters. I don't believe that the lists of terms as tree names used in Yoshimura's book are subject to copyright. But I could be wrong. I am very supportive of Nic's idea of having a Romanized Japanese - English tree name cross reference list. Cheers. Peter Aradi Tulsa, Oklahoma -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Alan Walker Sent: 2004. október 15. 11:57 To: Subject: [IBC] Name Meaning Good points, at least most of them. I think that starting a reference is a good idea, too. Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. I just don't really see a practical (and legal) way to get people to this extensive copyrighted information besides referring them to the source ultimately. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Nicolas Steenhout wouldn't put much stock in it. I just got these straight out of Kodansha's Romanized Japanese-English Dictionary. Ok, fair enough :) Since this is a classic bonsai book, long in print, which everyone who is serious about bonsai should have, I recommend that you simply refer them to this resource for Japanese tree names. While I understand the concept and where you're coming from, I have to say that as a *user*, if I came to the IBC site and was looking for information, only to be referred to a book, I would not be impressed. There are *several* factors why some people don't acquire books or why refering them to a book from the site isn't always the best option.. Could be that it can't be afforded. Could be that there's no space to keep books. Could be that the person in question doesn't want books. Could be that the person lives in a small town where the only bookstore (if there is one) doesn't carry this book. Could be that the person wants the information at the time they are surfing (like 3am). Etc. Just my 2 cents. N ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Direct, literal translations from the Japanese are
always tricky. I got this message from a poetry group where the Japanese speaker used his Japanese dictionary for a definition. There is no mention of Trident or in this definition. Kitsune Miko The haiku was: Momiji Frogfoot leaves Dancing in the sunlight Blushing Copyright 10-14-04 by the Poetess Kitsune Miko "Momiji" is ambiguous word in Japanese. My Japanese dictionary explains three meaning as follows. 1.The phenomena that leaves turn yellow or red in late autumn. 2 .Leaves turned red 3. Another name for maple and, in my Japanese-English dictionary Momiji; 1.a maple; 2.red leaves So, I translated "momiji" into ".red leaves", but I had better change it. --- Peter wrote: Alan: The Yoshimura book is several decades old and in the last three years I found that many of its references and listed usages have been replaced in colloquial Japanese. A language is a living thing and terminology does change over time. I have found that out while visiting my native Hungary where my speech pattern and use of idioms were referred to as "quaint" by the youngsters. I don't believe that the lists of terms as tree names used in Yoshimura's book are subject to copyright. But I could be wrong. I am very supportive of Nic's idea of having a Romanized Japanese - English tree name cross reference list. Cheers. Peter Aradi Tulsa, Oklahoma -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Alan Walker Sent: 2004. október 15. 11:57 To: Subject: [IBC] Name Meaning Good points, at least most of them. I think that starting a reference is a good idea, too. Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. I just don't really see a practical (and legal) way to get people to this extensive copyrighted information besides referring them to the source ultimately. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Nicolas Steenhout wouldn't put much stock in it. I just got these straight out of Kodansha's Romanized Japanese-English Dictionary. Ok, fair enough :) Since this is a classic bonsai book, long in print, which everyone who is serious about bonsai should have, I recommend that you simply refer them to this resource for Japanese tree names. While I understand the concept and where you're coming from, I have to say that as a *user*, if I came to the IBC site and was looking for information, only to be referred to a book, I would not be impressed. There are *several* factors why some people don't acquire books or why refering them to a book from the site isn't always the best option.. Could be that it can't be afforded. Could be that there's no space to keep books. Could be that the person in question doesn't want books. Could be that the person lives in a small town where the only bookstore (if there is one) doesn't carry this book. Could be that the person wants the information at the time they are surfing (like 3am). Etc. Just my 2 cents. N ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ===== **** "Expectations are resentments under construction." Anne Lamott ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
I think that starting a reference is a good idea, too. Listing the
Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. As you likely know, we already have a bit of "dictionary" covering some horticultural and some japanese terms: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/bondic.php As I am working on revamping the site, this section will be transformed a little bit. The transformations intended will be that the information will be easier to manage and to add to. Categories could be added, as many as we want, and including a category for major tree species name in japanese would be a fantastic idea. I'll set it up that way so data can be added once the new site goes live (I'm *hoping* to have it in a month's time, but don't hold your breath). I just don't really see a practical (and legal) way to get people to this extensive copyrighted information besides referring them to the source ultimately. In general, I think that we have enough knowledgeable people to be able to summarise info, or produce "custom" information. In that summary can then be added something like: If you want more information, here are some book as resources", or something like that. Nic ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
I think that starting a reference is a good idea, too. Listing the
Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. As you likely know, we already have a bit of "dictionary" covering some horticultural and some japanese terms: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/bondic.php As I am working on revamping the site, this section will be transformed a little bit. The transformations intended will be that the information will be easier to manage and to add to. Categories could be added, as many as we want, and including a category for major tree species name in japanese would be a fantastic idea. I'll set it up that way so data can be added once the new site goes live (I'm *hoping* to have it in a month's time, but don't hold your breath). I just don't really see a practical (and legal) way to get people to this extensive copyrighted information besides referring them to the source ultimately. In general, I think that we have enough knowledgeable people to be able to summarise info, or produce "custom" information. In that summary can then be added something like: If you want more information, here are some book as resources", or something like that. Nic ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
-----Original Message-----
From: Nicolas Steenhout I think that starting a reference is a good idea, too. Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. As you likely know, we already have a bit of "dictionary" covering some horticultural and some japanese terms: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/bondic.php __________________________________________________ _______ There's a decent start here, but plenty of holes. Also, some "definitions/translations" need revisiting for accuracy, e.g. suiseki. __________________________________________________ _______ As I am working on revamping the site, this section will be transformed a little bit. The transformations intended will be that the information will be easier to manage and to add to. Categories could be added, as many as we want, and including a category for major tree species name in japanese would be a fantastic idea. I'll set it up that way so data can be added once the new site goes live (I'm *hoping* to have it in a month's time, but don't hold your breath). I just don't really see a practical (and legal) way to get people to this extensive copyrighted information besides referring them to the source ultimately. In general, I think that we have enough knowledgeable people to be able to summarise info, or produce "custom" information. In that summary can then be added something like: If you want more information, here are some book as resources", or something like that. Nic __________________________________________________ _______ Exactly! I think you are right on track with this, Nic. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
-----Original Message-----
From: Nicolas Steenhout I think that starting a reference is a good idea, too. Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. As you likely know, we already have a bit of "dictionary" covering some horticultural and some japanese terms: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/bondic.php __________________________________________________ _______ There's a decent start here, but plenty of holes. Also, some "definitions/translations" need revisiting for accuracy, e.g. suiseki. __________________________________________________ _______ As I am working on revamping the site, this section will be transformed a little bit. The transformations intended will be that the information will be easier to manage and to add to. Categories could be added, as many as we want, and including a category for major tree species name in japanese would be a fantastic idea. I'll set it up that way so data can be added once the new site goes live (I'm *hoping* to have it in a month's time, but don't hold your breath). I just don't really see a practical (and legal) way to get people to this extensive copyrighted information besides referring them to the source ultimately. In general, I think that we have enough knowledgeable people to be able to summarise info, or produce "custom" information. In that summary can then be added something like: If you want more information, here are some book as resources", or something like that. Nic __________________________________________________ _______ Exactly! I think you are right on track with this, Nic. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and
doable. Why? The Latin names are far more important. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and
doable. Why? The Latin names are far more important. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
Iris: Of course, the Latin names are far more important and
precise, but sometimes we need to know the Japanese names when looking at Japanese publications. No knowledge is useless. Some is just more useful than others. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Iris Cohen Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. Why? The Latin names are far more important. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Iris: Of course, the Latin names are far more important and
precise, but sometimes we need to know the Japanese names when looking at Japanese publications. No knowledge is useless. Some is just more useful than others. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Iris Cohen Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. Why? The Latin names are far more important. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Alan:
We not only need to know the common Japanese names when looking at Japanese publications; I think it is necessary to know those names when visiting Japan or when Japanese bonsai artists visit foreign countries to teach. If you want to learn the name of the plant they are talking about you better be able to identify it immediately or try to obtain some kind of name so you can look it up later. The Japanese bonsai artists are not familiar with "botanical" (not Latin..... many are of "Greek" origin!) names and the Japanese do not care what the plant is formally called. They just use the plant material because it is good for bonsai training. They don't care if the plant is a Pinus parviflora or Pinus pentaphylla or Pinus himekomatsu. All they know is that this pine has five needles per fascicle. Bill ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Alan:
We not only need to know the common Japanese names when looking at Japanese publications; I think it is necessary to know those names when visiting Japan or when Japanese bonsai artists visit foreign countries to teach. If you want to learn the name of the plant they are talking about you better be able to identify it immediately or try to obtain some kind of name so you can look it up later. The Japanese bonsai artists are not familiar with "botanical" (not Latin..... many are of "Greek" origin!) names and the Japanese do not care what the plant is formally called. They just use the plant material because it is good for bonsai training. They don't care if the plant is a Pinus parviflora or Pinus pentaphylla or Pinus himekomatsu. All they know is that this pine has five needles per fascicle. Bill ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Name meanings are good to a point. Sometimes when A tree is translated from one language to another , it translates to another existing cultivar making identification confusing. It seems to happen with Japanese Maples. It is difficult sometimes to determine correct names of specific trees.
when trees are translated from Japanese to English you can end up with 2 trees with the same name. Not all cultivars originate in Japan. They are being developed all over the world as well as The United States. If you use japan as a point of naming trees then you can't use translation. It has to more of franetic spelling of japanese names. This way you always maintain the integrity of specific species. In a sense you have to have a universal language which covers all names of trees. It has been Latin up until now. If you develop another universal language then it just gets confusing. -- SteveW Long Island NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Name meanings are good to a point. Sometimes when A tree is translated from one language to another , it translates to another existing cultivar making identification confusing. It seems to happen with Japanese Maples. It is difficult sometimes to determine correct names of specific trees.
when trees are translated from Japanese to English you can end up with 2 trees with the same name. Not all cultivars originate in Japan. They are being developed all over the world as well as The United States. If you use japan as a point of naming trees then you can't use translation. It has to more of franetic spelling of japanese names. This way you always maintain the integrity of specific species. In a sense you have to have a universal language which covers all names of trees. It has been Latin up until now. If you develop another universal language then it just gets confusing. -- SteveW Long Island NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
G'day all...
What I would find most useful: A tree name database that would include JAPANESE NAME, (maybe CHINESE NAME), BOTANICAL NAME and COMMON NAME...with the capability to sort on JAPANESE NAME, (maybe CHINESE NAME), BOTANICAL NAME and COMMON NAME. This of course, if it's a true database, could be expanded to include a multitude of data about each specific tree... And on, and on, and on... Thanks for listening, and have a good day. Pat Dez of the Arizona High Dezert, at 4550', Oracle, AZ, 2000' above Tucson Sunset Zone 10 USDA Zone 8 aka: Pat Patterson 'riding off in all directions' |
G'day all...
What I would find most useful: A tree name database that would include JAPANESE NAME, (maybe CHINESE NAME), BOTANICAL NAME and COMMON NAME...with the capability to sort on JAPANESE NAME, (maybe CHINESE NAME), BOTANICAL NAME and COMMON NAME. This of course, if it's a true database, could be expanded to include a multitude of data about each specific tree... And on, and on, and on... Thanks for listening, and have a good day. Pat Dez of the Arizona High Dezert, at 4550', Oracle, AZ, 2000' above Tucson Sunset Zone 10 USDA Zone 8 aka: Pat Patterson 'riding off in all directions' |
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:28:07 GMT, Iris Cohen wrote:
Natsu = summer Koyu = peculiar or characteristic Ki = tree The plant in question is a compact white Cattleya, smaller than standard size. According to Bill Valavanis, natsu means summer, as you said, but he divided the rest of the word differently. Yuki means snow and ko may mean small, and that explanation makes the most sense. Iris, Bill's translation is probably the closest but I would group the 'ko' and 'yuki' together to produce the word 'koyuki', meaning 'a light fall of snow' or 'a light snow'. This gives the impression that the flowers are similar to a light summer snowfall. Another set of kanji with the same phonetics is less attractive and means 'powdery snow'. As regards your request for the placement of stress on particular syllables, my comment would be that the Japanese language does not use stresses but, instead, uses rising and dropping inflections. Best wishes in bonsai, Les Dowdell In Zone 3a where we just received an akikoyuki (light fall of snow in autumn) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:28:07 GMT, Iris Cohen wrote:
Natsu = summer Koyu = peculiar or characteristic Ki = tree The plant in question is a compact white Cattleya, smaller than standard size. According to Bill Valavanis, natsu means summer, as you said, but he divided the rest of the word differently. Yuki means snow and ko may mean small, and that explanation makes the most sense. Iris, Bill's translation is probably the closest but I would group the 'ko' and 'yuki' together to produce the word 'koyuki', meaning 'a light fall of snow' or 'a light snow'. This gives the impression that the flowers are similar to a light summer snowfall. Another set of kanji with the same phonetics is less attractive and means 'powdery snow'. As regards your request for the placement of stress on particular syllables, my comment would be that the Japanese language does not use stresses but, instead, uses rising and dropping inflections. Best wishes in bonsai, Les Dowdell In Zone 3a where we just received an akikoyuki (light fall of snow in autumn) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
All this discussion of Japanese names is interesting BUT here in Florida most
of what I grow does not have a Japanese equivalent. How do you say Ficus salicifolia (nerifolia), natalinsis, heteropodia, benjamina, retusa, burtt-davyi, macrophylla. microcarpa, petiolaris, etc. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
All this discussion of Japanese names is interesting BUT here in Florida most
of what I grow does not have a Japanese equivalent. How do you say Ficus salicifolia (nerifolia), natalinsis, heteropodia, benjamina, retusa, burtt-davyi, macrophylla. microcarpa, petiolaris, etc. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Bill's translation is probably the closest but I would group the 'ko' and
'yuki' together to produce the word 'koyuki', meaning 'a light fall of snow' or 'a light snow'. This gives the impression that the flowers are similar to a light summer snowfall. Excellent. But these are good size flowers, more the size of a snowball. LOL. However, if they remind the registrant of a light summer snowfall, that's fine with me. As regards your request for the placement of stress on particular syllables, my comment would be that the Japanese language does not use stresses but, instead, uses rising and dropping inflections. So how do I, with round eyes, pronounce Natsukoyuki without breaking my teeth? Arigato Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
Bill's translation is probably the closest but I would group the 'ko' and
'yuki' together to produce the word 'koyuki', meaning 'a light fall of snow' or 'a light snow'. This gives the impression that the flowers are similar to a light summer snowfall. Excellent. But these are good size flowers, more the size of a snowball. LOL. However, if they remind the registrant of a light summer snowfall, that's fine with me. As regards your request for the placement of stress on particular syllables, my comment would be that the Japanese language does not use stresses but, instead, uses rising and dropping inflections. So how do I, with round eyes, pronounce Natsukoyuki without breaking my teeth? Arigato Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:26:53 EDT, Billy M. Rhodes wrote:
All this discussion of Japanese names is interesting BUT here in Florida most of what I grow does not have a Japanese equivalent. How do you say Ficus salicifolia (nerifolia), natalinsis, heteropodia, benjamina, retusa, burtt-davyi, macrophylla. microcarpa, petiolaris, etc. Billy on the Florida Space Coast Billy If you seriously want Japanese names for various Ficus species you may want to talk to bonsai growers from Okinawa, in southern Japan. I recently saw a Ficus bonsai (from Okinawa) in a recent issue of Kindai Bonsai (May, 2004, Pg. 10). It looked like it may have been a F. retusa and was called gayumaru. If you do not seriously want Japanese names for various Floridian bonsai, then I will point out that this topic dealt with finding an English 'translation' of a Japanese name, not finding a Japanese name for an English or latin name. Not everything has to be translated to another language. Best wishes in bonsai, Les Dowdell (aka hokkoku) living in a hokkoku. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:26:53 EDT, Billy M. Rhodes wrote:
All this discussion of Japanese names is interesting BUT here in Florida most of what I grow does not have a Japanese equivalent. How do you say Ficus salicifolia (nerifolia), natalinsis, heteropodia, benjamina, retusa, burtt-davyi, macrophylla. microcarpa, petiolaris, etc. Billy on the Florida Space Coast Billy If you seriously want Japanese names for various Ficus species you may want to talk to bonsai growers from Okinawa, in southern Japan. I recently saw a Ficus bonsai (from Okinawa) in a recent issue of Kindai Bonsai (May, 2004, Pg. 10). It looked like it may have been a F. retusa and was called gayumaru. If you do not seriously want Japanese names for various Floridian bonsai, then I will point out that this topic dealt with finding an English 'translation' of a Japanese name, not finding a Japanese name for an English or latin name. Not everything has to be translated to another language. Best wishes in bonsai, Les Dowdell (aka hokkoku) living in a hokkoku. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:57:43 GMT, Iris Cohen wrote:
As regards your request for the placement of stress on particular syllables, my comment would be that the Japanese language does not use stresses but, instead, uses rising and dropping inflections. So how do I, with round eyes, pronounce Natsukoyuki without breaking my teeth? Arigato Iris, Iris Natsukoyuki has five (5) syllables: na - as in natural tsu - as in tsu (hard to find in English) ko - as in cone yu - as in you ki - as in key Pronounce each syllable with equal stress and timing. That will bring it close enough to be understood by a Japanese speaker. The inflections are harder to write with this charcter set and may best be found in a dictionary and explained in a Japanese language text. To keep this message bonsai related, I would just say that it sounds like these would be a bit large to be companion plants in a tokonoma display. douitashimashite Best wishes in bonsai, Les Dowdell Yuki no shita ni sunde imasu. (Living under the snow) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:57:43 GMT, Iris Cohen wrote:
As regards your request for the placement of stress on particular syllables, my comment would be that the Japanese language does not use stresses but, instead, uses rising and dropping inflections. So how do I, with round eyes, pronounce Natsukoyuki without breaking my teeth? Arigato Iris, Iris Natsukoyuki has five (5) syllables: na - as in natural tsu - as in tsu (hard to find in English) ko - as in cone yu - as in you ki - as in key Pronounce each syllable with equal stress and timing. That will bring it close enough to be understood by a Japanese speaker. The inflections are harder to write with this charcter set and may best be found in a dictionary and explained in a Japanese language text. To keep this message bonsai related, I would just say that it sounds like these would be a bit large to be companion plants in a tokonoma display. douitashimashite Best wishes in bonsai, Les Dowdell Yuki no shita ni sunde imasu. (Living under the snow) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Pronounce each syllable with equal stress and timing.
Sounds doable. That will bring it close enough to be understood by a Japanese speaker. I only know one Japanese orchid grower. The rest are Anglophones. So once and for all, how do you pronounce Satsuki? To keep this message bonsai related, I would just say that it sounds like these would be a bit large to be companion plants in a tokonoma display. True, I don't have a tokonoma anyway. I hope next year it blooms in time for our orchid show. It's tough to be multiply addicted. I just discovered that an unnamed Japanese maple I was thinking of getting rid of because of an impossible nebari problem has turned a gorgeous dark red. I may try to air-layer it next spring. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
Pronounce each syllable with equal stress and timing.
Sounds doable. That will bring it close enough to be understood by a Japanese speaker. I only know one Japanese orchid grower. The rest are Anglophones. So once and for all, how do you pronounce Satsuki? To keep this message bonsai related, I would just say that it sounds like these would be a bit large to be companion plants in a tokonoma display. True, I don't have a tokonoma anyway. I hope next year it blooms in time for our orchid show. It's tough to be multiply addicted. I just discovered that an unnamed Japanese maple I was thinking of getting rid of because of an impossible nebari problem has turned a gorgeous dark red. I may try to air-layer it next spring. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
On 18 Oct 2004 at 13:12, Iris Cohen wrote:
Pronounce each syllable with equal stress and timing. Sounds doable. That will bring it close enough to be understood by a Japanese speaker. I only know one Japanese orchid grower. The rest are Anglophones. So once and for all, how do you pronounce Satsuki? More or less, Sat-s-ki The 'u" is BARELY noticed. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On 18 Oct 2004 at 13:12, Iris Cohen wrote:
Pronounce each syllable with equal stress and timing. Sounds doable. That will bring it close enough to be understood by a Japanese speaker. I only know one Japanese orchid grower. The rest are Anglophones. So once and for all, how do you pronounce Satsuki? More or less, Sat-s-ki The 'u" is BARELY noticed. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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