[IBC] Preserving Bougie deadwood
 

A while ago there was some discussion of the difficulty of preserving
deadwood on bougainvillea.

While I do not have long experience with this, I have been having good
results in the past three years ( I agree too little time to be sure!) using
this technique:

1. Carve the wood to get rid of all traces of "punk" (soft, rotted wood)

2. Use a torch to char the wood (Shield live material from the heat.) This
will also help "age" the carving.

3. Wire brush to clean up the charred areas as desired.

4. Apply lime sulfur (tinted as desired).

5. After plenty of time to dry, (depends on weather and watering practicies)
generously apply Minwax wood hardener.

I suspect that the fire hardening may be key. It's an ancient way of making
wood more durable.

I have been doing this in New Jersey with trees that live indoors for the
winter. Florida may well simply be too moist.

Jim Smith has pointed out to me that some bougies (particularly the purple
ones) have harder wood than others. That may also be a factor. I have done
this on a purple one and on a pink pixie.

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Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !!

Any good tips ?

Thanks
Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA

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Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !!

Any good tips ?

Thanks
Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA

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On 19 Oct 2004 at 13:43, Mark Hill wrote:

Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !!

Any good tips ?

Whatever "finishing" needs doing to the jin -- smoothing, wire
brushing, final carving, or whatever -- should be done before
you apply the lime sulfur.

I've been told that it helps to spray the jin lightly with a
spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing the LS on;
I've done it with and without and have seen absolutely no
difference -- except that the LS tended to run sooner when the
jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away from live
tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live bark. It may
well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the soil, but I
don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic -- unless
that's just how you are. ;-)

A week or so after the final application you can go over the
entire jin lightly with a wire (or stiff bristle) brush. That
helps to get rid of the AWFUL, artificial "painted" look that so
many LS'ed branches have.

And remember, lime sulfuring, as many other things, can be (and
often is) overdone. It sometimes is one of those "traditional"
things to do that you do because everyone else with a juniper
has done it.

And its "preservative" value is miniscule.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 19 Oct 2004 at 13:43, Mark Hill wrote:

Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !!

Any good tips ?

Whatever "finishing" needs doing to the jin -- smoothing, wire
brushing, final carving, or whatever -- should be done before
you apply the lime sulfur.

I've been told that it helps to spray the jin lightly with a
spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing the LS on;
I've done it with and without and have seen absolutely no
difference -- except that the LS tended to run sooner when the
jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away from live
tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live bark. It may
well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the soil, but I
don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic -- unless
that's just how you are. ;-)

A week or so after the final application you can go over the
entire jin lightly with a wire (or stiff bristle) brush. That
helps to get rid of the AWFUL, artificial "painted" look that so
many LS'ed branches have.

And remember, lime sulfuring, as many other things, can be (and
often is) overdone. It sometimes is one of those "traditional"
things to do that you do because everyone else with a juniper
has done it.

And its "preservative" value is miniscule.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

One way of cutting down the whitness of the lime
sulfur is to mix black in the concoction, india ink,
black water color, maybe even soot. This will give a
more natural look. I have been known to use a tinted
white paint instead of lime sulfur. Watercolor runs,
but acrylic paints stay on. You can even mix in a bit
of silver paint.

kitsune Miko

PS in California we put the LS on dry trees on a hot
summer's day, thnking that the wood will absorb more
if really dry. The wetting oaf the dead wood has
never made sense to me.


--- Jim Lewis wrote:

On 19 Oct 2004 at 13:43, Mark Hill wrote:

Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and
started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower
branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle
of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how
to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the
house !!

Any good tips ?

Whatever "finishing" needs doing to the jin --
smoothing, wire
brushing, final carving, or whatever -- should be
done before
you apply the lime sulfur.

I've been told that it helps to spray the jin
lightly with a
spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing
the LS on;
I've done it with and without and have seen
absolutely no
difference -- except that the LS tended to run
sooner when the
jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away
from live
tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live
bark. It may
well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the
soil, but I
don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic --
unless
that's just how you are. ;-)

A week or so after the final application you can go
over the
entire jin lightly with a wire (or stiff bristle)
brush. That
helps to get rid of the AWFUL, artificial "painted"
look that so
many LS'ed branches have.

And remember, lime sulfuring, as many other things,
can be (and
often is) overdone. It sometimes is one of those
"traditional"
things to do that you do because everyone else with
a juniper
has done it.

And its "preservative" value is miniscule.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL -
Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the
landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care
and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon
Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

One way of cutting down the whitness of the lime
sulfur is to mix black in the concoction, india ink,
black water color, maybe even soot. This will give a
more natural look. I have been known to use a tinted
white paint instead of lime sulfur. Watercolor runs,
but acrylic paints stay on. You can even mix in a bit
of silver paint.

kitsune Miko

PS in California we put the LS on dry trees on a hot
summer's day, thnking that the wood will absorb more
if really dry. The wetting oaf the dead wood has
never made sense to me.


--- Jim Lewis wrote:

On 19 Oct 2004 at 13:43, Mark Hill wrote:

Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and
started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower
branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle
of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how
to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the
house !!

Any good tips ?

Whatever "finishing" needs doing to the jin --
smoothing, wire
brushing, final carving, or whatever -- should be
done before
you apply the lime sulfur.

I've been told that it helps to spray the jin
lightly with a
spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing
the LS on;
I've done it with and without and have seen
absolutely no
difference -- except that the LS tended to run
sooner when the
jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away
from live
tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live
bark. It may
well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the
soil, but I
don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic --
unless
that's just how you are. ;-)

A week or so after the final application you can go
over the
entire jin lightly with a wire (or stiff bristle)
brush. That
helps to get rid of the AWFUL, artificial "painted"
look that so
many LS'ed branches have.

And remember, lime sulfuring, as many other things,
can be (and
often is) overdone. It sometimes is one of those
"traditional"
things to do that you do because everyone else with
a juniper
has done it.

And its "preservative" value is miniscule.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL -
Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the
landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care
and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon
Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni......
Cause Kimura said so.
I NEVER wet the jin first, why?....because the LS spiderwebs into the bark
and looks like crap!
I always wondered when listening to Kimura talk about what wood to keep as
jin, ONLY REALLY OLD wood, I've seen him talk about jin on collected old
Ponderosa and Rocky Mtn. Juniper and say it was too YOUNG of wood !? and
wouldn't last because not dense enough.?
Then, spray jin with water before applying lime sulfur on stuff he WAS
jinning..
I ask....If jin wood should ONLY be old , hard, tight wood the water doesn't
sink in anyway so why use it. Never bought that one myself. No water before
LS looks best.
Also, Jim, I've NEVER seen any damage from LS on bark, foliage OR soil!
It could just be because I don't read enough books though! :)
Regards,
Dale


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kitsune Miko"
Subject: [IBC] Applying Lime Sulfur
The wetting oaf the dead wood has
never made sense to me.


--- Jim Lewis wrote:
I've been told that it helps to spray the jin
lightly with a
spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing
the LS on;
I've done it with and without and have seen
absolutely no
difference -- except that the LS tended to run
sooner when the
jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away
from live
tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live
bark. It may
well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the
soil, but I
don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic --
unless
that's just how you are. ;-)

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni......
Cause Kimura said so.
I NEVER wet the jin first, why?....because the LS spiderwebs into the bark
and looks like crap!
I always wondered when listening to Kimura talk about what wood to keep as
jin, ONLY REALLY OLD wood, I've seen him talk about jin on collected old
Ponderosa and Rocky Mtn. Juniper and say it was too YOUNG of wood !? and
wouldn't last because not dense enough.?
Then, spray jin with water before applying lime sulfur on stuff he WAS
jinning..
I ask....If jin wood should ONLY be old , hard, tight wood the water doesn't
sink in anyway so why use it. Never bought that one myself. No water before
LS looks best.
Also, Jim, I've NEVER seen any damage from LS on bark, foliage OR soil!
It could just be because I don't read enough books though! :)
Regards,
Dale


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kitsune Miko"
Subject: [IBC] Applying Lime Sulfur
The wetting oaf the dead wood has
never made sense to me.


--- Jim Lewis wrote:
I've been told that it helps to spray the jin
lightly with a
spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing
the LS on;
I've done it with and without and have seen
absolutely no
difference -- except that the LS tended to run
sooner when the
jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away
from live
tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live
bark. It may
well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the
soil, but I
don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic --
unless
that's just how you are. ;-)

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 19 Oct 2004 at 19:03, dalecochoy wrote:

I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni......
Cause Kimura said so.

Well, he's NOT my fav bonsaiest, so that holds little water for
me. ;-)



I NEVER wet the jin first, why?....because the LS spiderwebs into the bark
and looks like crap!
I always wondered when listening to Kimura talk about what wood to keep as
jin, ONLY REALLY OLD wood, I've seen him talk about jin on collected old
Ponderosa and Rocky Mtn. Juniper and say it was too YOUNG of wood !? and
wouldn't last because not dense enough.?
Then, spray jin with water before applying lime sulfur on stuff he WAS
jinning..
I ask....If jin wood should ONLY be old , hard, tight wood the water doesn't
sink in anyway so why use it. Never bought that one myself. No water before
LS looks best.

Makes sense to me.


Also, Jim, I've NEVER seen any damage from LS on bark, foliage OR soil!
It could just be because I don't read enough books though! :)


Must be that, Dale. ;-) I've never seen it either, but it IS
a potent poison, so I'd guess that if you slop ENOUGH of it onto
the soil it'll do some damage.

But I'm sloppy, but not THAT sloppy.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 19 Oct 2004 at 19:03, dalecochoy wrote:

I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni......
Cause Kimura said so.

Well, he's NOT my fav bonsaiest, so that holds little water for
me. ;-)



I NEVER wet the jin first, why?....because the LS spiderwebs into the bark
and looks like crap!
I always wondered when listening to Kimura talk about what wood to keep as
jin, ONLY REALLY OLD wood, I've seen him talk about jin on collected old
Ponderosa and Rocky Mtn. Juniper and say it was too YOUNG of wood !? and
wouldn't last because not dense enough.?
Then, spray jin with water before applying lime sulfur on stuff he WAS
jinning..
I ask....If jin wood should ONLY be old , hard, tight wood the water doesn't
sink in anyway so why use it. Never bought that one myself. No water before
LS looks best.

Makes sense to me.


Also, Jim, I've NEVER seen any damage from LS on bark, foliage OR soil!
It could just be because I don't read enough books though! :)


Must be that, Dale. ;-) I've never seen it either, but it IS
a potent poison, so I'd guess that if you slop ENOUGH of it onto
the soil it'll do some damage.

But I'm sloppy, but not THAT sloppy.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
Subject: [IBC] Applying Lime Sulfur


On 19 Oct 2004 at 19:03, dalecochoy wrote:

I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni......
Cause Kimura said so.

Well, he's NOT my fav bonsaiest, so that holds little water for
me. ;-)

Ha!, Well, I think his talent IS wonderful, but , STILL disagree on the LS
thing. I GUESS I'm allowed? :)
Anyway, whether you appreciate Mr. Kimura or not his statements still become
gospel to most as they leave his lips.
This is a common thing as I see it in bonsai the world, especially in the
day of internet where many may not have the actual experience. Over the
years I've noted many "gospels" on subjects from Kanuma, to Haydite to
glazing pots underneath or inside. These master opinions often become gospel
as they bounce around.
Oh well, enough on that!
:)
Dale

P.S. Oh, BTW, Jay, it wasn't me ( and don't know who it was) who suggested
spritzing the minwax wood hardner very lightly after application started to
dry to knock off the sheen, but, I certainly agree it would probably do the
job fine..

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