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#1
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[IBC] Preserving Bougie deadwood
A while ago there was some discussion of the difficulty of preserving
deadwood on bougainvillea. While I do not have long experience with this, I have been having good results in the past three years ( I agree too little time to be sure!) using this technique: 1. Carve the wood to get rid of all traces of "punk" (soft, rotted wood) 2. Use a torch to char the wood (Shield live material from the heat.) This will also help "age" the carving. 3. Wire brush to clean up the charred areas as desired. 4. Apply lime sulfur (tinted as desired). 5. After plenty of time to dry, (depends on weather and watering practicies) generously apply Minwax wood hardener. I suspect that the fire hardening may be key. It's an ancient way of making wood more durable. I have been doing this in New Jersey with trees that live indoors for the winter. Florida may well simply be too moist. Jim Smith has pointed out to me that some bougies (particularly the purple ones) have harder wood than others. That may also be a factor. I have done this on a purple one and on a pink pixie. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#2
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Hi all;
A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be. Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before applying the LS. Should I be wire brushing them ? One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !! Any good tips ? Thanks Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#3
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Hi all;
A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be. Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before applying the LS. Should I be wire brushing them ? One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !! Any good tips ? Thanks Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#4
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On 19 Oct 2004 at 13:43, Mark Hill wrote:
Hi all; A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be. Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before applying the LS. Should I be wire brushing them ? One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !! Any good tips ? Whatever "finishing" needs doing to the jin -- smoothing, wire brushing, final carving, or whatever -- should be done before you apply the lime sulfur. I've been told that it helps to spray the jin lightly with a spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing the LS on; I've done it with and without and have seen absolutely no difference -- except that the LS tended to run sooner when the jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away from live tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live bark. It may well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the soil, but I don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic -- unless that's just how you are. ;-) A week or so after the final application you can go over the entire jin lightly with a wire (or stiff bristle) brush. That helps to get rid of the AWFUL, artificial "painted" look that so many LS'ed branches have. And remember, lime sulfuring, as many other things, can be (and often is) overdone. It sometimes is one of those "traditional" things to do that you do because everyone else with a juniper has done it. And its "preservative" value is miniscule. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#5
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On 19 Oct 2004 at 13:43, Mark Hill wrote:
Hi all; A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be. Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before applying the LS. Should I be wire brushing them ? One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !! Any good tips ? Whatever "finishing" needs doing to the jin -- smoothing, wire brushing, final carving, or whatever -- should be done before you apply the lime sulfur. I've been told that it helps to spray the jin lightly with a spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing the LS on; I've done it with and without and have seen absolutely no difference -- except that the LS tended to run sooner when the jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away from live tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live bark. It may well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the soil, but I don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic -- unless that's just how you are. ;-) A week or so after the final application you can go over the entire jin lightly with a wire (or stiff bristle) brush. That helps to get rid of the AWFUL, artificial "painted" look that so many LS'ed branches have. And remember, lime sulfuring, as many other things, can be (and often is) overdone. It sometimes is one of those "traditional" things to do that you do because everyone else with a juniper has done it. And its "preservative" value is miniscule. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#6
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One way of cutting down the whitness of the lime
sulfur is to mix black in the concoction, india ink, black water color, maybe even soot. This will give a more natural look. I have been known to use a tinted white paint instead of lime sulfur. Watercolor runs, but acrylic paints stay on. You can even mix in a bit of silver paint. kitsune Miko PS in California we put the LS on dry trees on a hot summer's day, thnking that the wood will absorb more if really dry. The wetting oaf the dead wood has never made sense to me. --- Jim Lewis wrote: On 19 Oct 2004 at 13:43, Mark Hill wrote: Hi all; A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be. Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before applying the LS. Should I be wire brushing them ? One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !! Any good tips ? Whatever "finishing" needs doing to the jin -- smoothing, wire brushing, final carving, or whatever -- should be done before you apply the lime sulfur. I've been told that it helps to spray the jin lightly with a spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing the LS on; I've done it with and without and have seen absolutely no difference -- except that the LS tended to run sooner when the jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away from live tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live bark. It may well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the soil, but I don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic -- unless that's just how you are. ;-) A week or so after the final application you can go over the entire jin lightly with a wire (or stiff bristle) brush. That helps to get rid of the AWFUL, artificial "painted" look that so many LS'ed branches have. And remember, lime sulfuring, as many other things, can be (and often is) overdone. It sometimes is one of those "traditional" things to do that you do because everyone else with a juniper has done it. And its "preservative" value is miniscule. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ===== **** "Expectations are resentments under construction." Anne Lamott ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#7
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One way of cutting down the whitness of the lime
sulfur is to mix black in the concoction, india ink, black water color, maybe even soot. This will give a more natural look. I have been known to use a tinted white paint instead of lime sulfur. Watercolor runs, but acrylic paints stay on. You can even mix in a bit of silver paint. kitsune Miko PS in California we put the LS on dry trees on a hot summer's day, thnking that the wood will absorb more if really dry. The wetting oaf the dead wood has never made sense to me. --- Jim Lewis wrote: On 19 Oct 2004 at 13:43, Mark Hill wrote: Hi all; A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be. Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before applying the LS. Should I be wire brushing them ? One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !! Any good tips ? Whatever "finishing" needs doing to the jin -- smoothing, wire brushing, final carving, or whatever -- should be done before you apply the lime sulfur. I've been told that it helps to spray the jin lightly with a spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing the LS on; I've done it with and without and have seen absolutely no difference -- except that the LS tended to run sooner when the jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away from live tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live bark. It may well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the soil, but I don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic -- unless that's just how you are. ;-) A week or so after the final application you can go over the entire jin lightly with a wire (or stiff bristle) brush. That helps to get rid of the AWFUL, artificial "painted" look that so many LS'ed branches have. And remember, lime sulfuring, as many other things, can be (and often is) overdone. It sometimes is one of those "traditional" things to do that you do because everyone else with a juniper has done it. And its "preservative" value is miniscule. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ===== **** "Expectations are resentments under construction." Anne Lamott ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#8
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I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni......
Cause Kimura said so. I NEVER wet the jin first, why?....because the LS spiderwebs into the bark and looks like crap! I always wondered when listening to Kimura talk about what wood to keep as jin, ONLY REALLY OLD wood, I've seen him talk about jin on collected old Ponderosa and Rocky Mtn. Juniper and say it was too YOUNG of wood !? and wouldn't last because not dense enough.? Then, spray jin with water before applying lime sulfur on stuff he WAS jinning.. I ask....If jin wood should ONLY be old , hard, tight wood the water doesn't sink in anyway so why use it. Never bought that one myself. No water before LS looks best. Also, Jim, I've NEVER seen any damage from LS on bark, foliage OR soil! It could just be because I don't read enough books though! :) Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitsune Miko" Subject: [IBC] Applying Lime Sulfur The wetting oaf the dead wood has never made sense to me. --- Jim Lewis wrote: I've been told that it helps to spray the jin lightly with a spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing the LS on; I've done it with and without and have seen absolutely no difference -- except that the LS tended to run sooner when the jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away from live tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live bark. It may well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the soil, but I don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic -- unless that's just how you are. ;-) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#9
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I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni......
Cause Kimura said so. I NEVER wet the jin first, why?....because the LS spiderwebs into the bark and looks like crap! I always wondered when listening to Kimura talk about what wood to keep as jin, ONLY REALLY OLD wood, I've seen him talk about jin on collected old Ponderosa and Rocky Mtn. Juniper and say it was too YOUNG of wood !? and wouldn't last because not dense enough.? Then, spray jin with water before applying lime sulfur on stuff he WAS jinning.. I ask....If jin wood should ONLY be old , hard, tight wood the water doesn't sink in anyway so why use it. Never bought that one myself. No water before LS looks best. Also, Jim, I've NEVER seen any damage from LS on bark, foliage OR soil! It could just be because I don't read enough books though! :) Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitsune Miko" Subject: [IBC] Applying Lime Sulfur The wetting oaf the dead wood has never made sense to me. --- Jim Lewis wrote: I've been told that it helps to spray the jin lightly with a spritzer bottle of water directly before brushing the LS on; I've done it with and without and have seen absolutely no difference -- except that the LS tended to run sooner when the jin was damp and I spent more time wiping it away from live tissue. (I have, BTW, NEVER seen LS damage live bark. It may well damage roots if it is really slopped onto the soil, but I don't think you need to be a cleanliness fanatic -- unless that's just how you are. ;-) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#10
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On 19 Oct 2004 at 19:03, dalecochoy wrote:
I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni...... Cause Kimura said so. Well, he's NOT my fav bonsaiest, so that holds little water for me. ;-) I NEVER wet the jin first, why?....because the LS spiderwebs into the bark and looks like crap! I always wondered when listening to Kimura talk about what wood to keep as jin, ONLY REALLY OLD wood, I've seen him talk about jin on collected old Ponderosa and Rocky Mtn. Juniper and say it was too YOUNG of wood !? and wouldn't last because not dense enough.? Then, spray jin with water before applying lime sulfur on stuff he WAS jinning.. I ask....If jin wood should ONLY be old , hard, tight wood the water doesn't sink in anyway so why use it. Never bought that one myself. No water before LS looks best. Makes sense to me. Also, Jim, I've NEVER seen any damage from LS on bark, foliage OR soil! It could just be because I don't read enough books though! :) Must be that, Dale. ;-) I've never seen it either, but it IS a potent poison, so I'd guess that if you slop ENOUGH of it onto the soil it'll do some damage. But I'm sloppy, but not THAT sloppy. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#11
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On 19 Oct 2004 at 19:03, dalecochoy wrote:
I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni...... Cause Kimura said so. Well, he's NOT my fav bonsaiest, so that holds little water for me. ;-) I NEVER wet the jin first, why?....because the LS spiderwebs into the bark and looks like crap! I always wondered when listening to Kimura talk about what wood to keep as jin, ONLY REALLY OLD wood, I've seen him talk about jin on collected old Ponderosa and Rocky Mtn. Juniper and say it was too YOUNG of wood !? and wouldn't last because not dense enough.? Then, spray jin with water before applying lime sulfur on stuff he WAS jinning.. I ask....If jin wood should ONLY be old , hard, tight wood the water doesn't sink in anyway so why use it. Never bought that one myself. No water before LS looks best. Makes sense to me. Also, Jim, I've NEVER seen any damage from LS on bark, foliage OR soil! It could just be because I don't read enough books though! :) Must be that, Dale. ;-) I've never seen it either, but it IS a potent poison, so I'd guess that if you slop ENOUGH of it onto the soil it'll do some damage. But I'm sloppy, but not THAT sloppy. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#12
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis" Subject: [IBC] Applying Lime Sulfur On 19 Oct 2004 at 19:03, dalecochoy wrote: I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni...... Cause Kimura said so. Well, he's NOT my fav bonsaiest, so that holds little water for me. ;-) Ha!, Well, I think his talent IS wonderful, but , STILL disagree on the LS thing. I GUESS I'm allowed? :) Anyway, whether you appreciate Mr. Kimura or not his statements still become gospel to most as they leave his lips. This is a common thing as I see it in bonsai the world, especially in the day of internet where many may not have the actual experience. Over the years I've noted many "gospels" on subjects from Kanuma, to Haydite to glazing pots underneath or inside. These master opinions often become gospel as they bounce around. Oh well, enough on that! :) Dale P.S. Oh, BTW, Jay, it wasn't me ( and don't know who it was) who suggested spritzing the minwax wood hardner very lightly after application started to dry to knock off the sheen, but, I certainly agree it would probably do the job fine.. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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