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[IBC] Maple ID
I have a small Acer palmatum that I bought unlabeled three years ago at Japan
Nursery in NJ. For the first two years it did nothing in the fall, and I was thinking of getting rid of it because the nebari is terrible. I would call it a clubfoot. (I finally figured out what to do with it.) However, this fall the leaves turned an absolutely gorgeous dark red. Cranberry color. It suddenly dawned on me that it is unlikely to be a seedling, and may well be a named cultivar. Now I am trying to figure out which one. Here are the clues: It belongs to the palmatum group. The bark is dark charcoal gray. If it isn't a seedling, it was cutting grown on its own roots. Considering what it's been through, it is pretty tough and disease resistant. The leaves are not very large, and show promise of further reduction through training. Typical leaves have 5 deep cut lobes, sharply toothed. The middle lobe is long & pointed. The other lobes are also sharply pointed. Some of the leaves are still on. Looking through Vertrees, it most closely matches the description of 'Nishiki Momiji,' but doesn't look exactly like the pictures on the Web. The twigs & petioles right now are dark red. I think they were green earlier. Young leaves are light yellowish green with a reddish picotee. Summer color is generic green. Can anyone take a guess? I don't have a decent picture. Iris ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
there ae so many cultivars of Palmatums to pick one from the descriprion.
Development of Palmatums chosen for various reasons.It can be the leaf colors in the spring or summer or fall.The shape or size of the leaves, or sometimes the shape or bark colors. . What were thr leaf colors in the spring , then summer then fall?. If the bark turns color in the fall it can be Sango Kaku, or maybe Beni Kawa these two cultivars are developed for their bark colors in the fall. On these 2 varieties most of the branches and twigs turn orange or red. After the leaves drop they maintain a distinctive coral or red color all .winter, It may also be a no particular cultivar. If you plant 100 Acer Palmatum seeds you can get 100 variations.The leaf color and even shape of the leaf can be different on all 100 trees. This is why there are 100s of varieties of Palmatum. One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to maintain it's unique charaxteristics.and it's the only way to maitain the Characteristics of a particular cultivar. . SteveW Long Island NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
there ae so many cultivars of Palmatums to pick one from the descriprion.
Development of Palmatums chosen for various reasons.It can be the leaf colors in the spring or summer or fall.The shape or size of the leaves, or sometimes the shape or bark colors. . What were thr leaf colors in the spring , then summer then fall?. If the bark turns color in the fall it can be Sango Kaku, or maybe Beni Kawa these two cultivars are developed for their bark colors in the fall. On these 2 varieties most of the branches and twigs turn orange or red. After the leaves drop they maintain a distinctive coral or red color all .winter, It may also be a no particular cultivar. If you plant 100 Acer Palmatum seeds you can get 100 variations.The leaf color and even shape of the leaf can be different on all 100 trees. This is why there are 100s of varieties of Palmatum. One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to maintain it's unique charaxteristics.and it's the only way to maitain the Characteristics of a particular cultivar. . SteveW Long Island NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
there ae so many cultivars of Palmatums to pick one from the descriprion.
Development of Palmatums chosen for various reasons.It can be the leaf colors in the spring or summer or fall.The shape or size of the leaves, or sometimes the shape or bark colors. . What were thr leaf colors in the spring , then summer then fall?. If the bark turns color in the fall it can be Sango Kaku, or maybe Beni Kawa these two cultivars are developed for their bark colors in the fall. On these 2 varieties most of the branches and twigs turn orange or red. After the leaves drop they maintain a distinctive coral or red color all .winter, It may also be a no particular cultivar. If you plant 100 Acer Palmatum seeds you can get 100 variations.The leaf color and even shape of the leaf can be different on all 100 trees. This is why there are 100s of varieties of Palmatum. One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to maintain it's unique charaxteristics.and it's the only way to maitain the Characteristics of a particular cultivar. . SteveW Long Island NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
In a message dated 11/7/04 7:38:54 AM, SteveWachs writes:
What were the leaf colors in the spring, then summer then fall? As I wrote, new leaves are light yellowish green with a red edge, summer leaves are plain green, and in fall they gradually turned to a deep red. The mature bark does not turn color in the fall. It remains dark charcoal gray. It is not 'Sango Kaku' or anything like that. It may also be no particular cultivar. I'm aware of that. What is more likely is that it may be a seedling of a known cultivar. I just thought I would ask on the chance that someone may recognize it from the description. *One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to* maintain their unique characters and*it's the only way to maintain the Characteristics of a particular cultivar. True, but many cultivars can be cutting grown & remain true to name. My 'Butterfly' is proof of that. Also, the other reason maples & fruit trees are grafted is to extend their hardiness, which is not such a problem with bonsai. Despite the drawbacks, dedicated growers keep trying to produce Japanese maples from cuttings for the bonsai trade. The big problem with this maple is that it was left in its nursery cube way too long, so the bottom of the trunk is like an old-fashioned Chinese woman's foot, all knotted up with a dead lump in the middle. When I got it, there was a terrible strangler root. I can't tell if it was originally a seedling or a cutting. I was thinking of air-layering it, but I was told that is too risky with Japanese maples. This winter, I will cut out all the dead area & treat the bottom of the trunk with root hormone. Iris A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense. - Woody Allen ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
In a message dated 11/7/04 7:38:54 AM, SteveWachs writes:
What were the leaf colors in the spring, then summer then fall? As I wrote, new leaves are light yellowish green with a red edge, summer leaves are plain green, and in fall they gradually turned to a deep red. The mature bark does not turn color in the fall. It remains dark charcoal gray. It is not 'Sango Kaku' or anything like that. It may also be no particular cultivar. I'm aware of that. What is more likely is that it may be a seedling of a known cultivar. I just thought I would ask on the chance that someone may recognize it from the description. *One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to* maintain their unique characters and*it's the only way to maintain the Characteristics of a particular cultivar. True, but many cultivars can be cutting grown & remain true to name. My 'Butterfly' is proof of that. Also, the other reason maples & fruit trees are grafted is to extend their hardiness, which is not such a problem with bonsai. Despite the drawbacks, dedicated growers keep trying to produce Japanese maples from cuttings for the bonsai trade. The big problem with this maple is that it was left in its nursery cube way too long, so the bottom of the trunk is like an old-fashioned Chinese woman's foot, all knotted up with a dead lump in the middle. When I got it, there was a terrible strangler root. I can't tell if it was originally a seedling or a cutting. I was thinking of air-layering it, but I was told that is too risky with Japanese maples. This winter, I will cut out all the dead area & treat the bottom of the trunk with root hormone. Iris A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense. - Woody Allen ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Iris and all,
I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with airlayering. I would repot in the spring cutting out all of the roots that are growing down and spreading the remaining roots - cut off the strangler root or at least make some solid cuts in it to promote growth of roots from it. Use a somewhat largish, but rather flat pot with good draining soil and make sure you tie it in the pot very well. Make sure any cuts that you want to root are under enough soil so they won't dry out - a little sphagnum moss on the cut site also seems to help. I have never bothered with rooting hormone, but use it if you like. Plan to repot in one to two years depending upon how strong the tree grows - let the top grow wild for the first year if the goal is to improve the roots. Once again remove the bottom roots and also make sure you cut back the large surface roots nearly to the base of the trunk with a cut that is longer on the top than the bottom - you want them sprout a couple of smaller roots that are better matched with the others. When repeated a couple of times this process will give a good nebari. The good thing about maples (particularly Japanese Maples) is that they will tolerate severe root pruning very well so you can recover from the clustered roots caused by just moving the plant into the next larger pot without doing any root work. It is much harder for pines and similar trees and the lose rate with aggressive root pruning is higher, but it is possible to fix bad roots even in those species. Of course you can grow your trees from seed and get perfect roots (a great way to learn how to do root pruning) or buy from folks like EvergreenGardenWorks that do some root work when they move the tree into a larger pot. They can't afford to completely sort out the root system, but at least it will not be a tangled mess. Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of The big problem with this maple is that it was left in its nursery cube way too long, so the bottom of the trunk is like an old-fashioned Chinese woman's foot, all knotted up with a dead lump in the middle. When I got it, there was a terrible strangler root. I can't tell if it was originally a seedling or a cutting. I was thinking of air-layering it, but I was told that is too risky with Japanese maples. This winter, I will cut out all the dead area & treat the bottom of the trunk with root hormone. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Iris and all,
I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with airlayering. I would repot in the spring cutting out all of the roots that are growing down and spreading the remaining roots - cut off the strangler root or at least make some solid cuts in it to promote growth of roots from it. Use a somewhat largish, but rather flat pot with good draining soil and make sure you tie it in the pot very well. Make sure any cuts that you want to root are under enough soil so they won't dry out - a little sphagnum moss on the cut site also seems to help. I have never bothered with rooting hormone, but use it if you like. Plan to repot in one to two years depending upon how strong the tree grows - let the top grow wild for the first year if the goal is to improve the roots. Once again remove the bottom roots and also make sure you cut back the large surface roots nearly to the base of the trunk with a cut that is longer on the top than the bottom - you want them sprout a couple of smaller roots that are better matched with the others. When repeated a couple of times this process will give a good nebari. The good thing about maples (particularly Japanese Maples) is that they will tolerate severe root pruning very well so you can recover from the clustered roots caused by just moving the plant into the next larger pot without doing any root work. It is much harder for pines and similar trees and the lose rate with aggressive root pruning is higher, but it is possible to fix bad roots even in those species. Of course you can grow your trees from seed and get perfect roots (a great way to learn how to do root pruning) or buy from folks like EvergreenGardenWorks that do some root work when they move the tree into a larger pot. They can't afford to completely sort out the root system, but at least it will not be a tangled mess. Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of The big problem with this maple is that it was left in its nursery cube way too long, so the bottom of the trunk is like an old-fashioned Chinese woman's foot, all knotted up with a dead lump in the middle. When I got it, there was a terrible strangler root. I can't tell if it was originally a seedling or a cutting. I was thinking of air-layering it, but I was told that is too risky with Japanese maples. This winter, I will cut out all the dead area & treat the bottom of the trunk with root hormone. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
MartyWeiser wrote:
Iris and all, I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with airlayering. What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without). Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
MartyWeiser wrote:
Iris and all, I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with airlayering. What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without). Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On 7 Nov 2004 at 19:18, Henrik Gistvall wrote:
MartyWeiser wrote: Iris and all, I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with airlayering. What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without). My guess is growing season. I layered a J. maple (in 2 spots) this spring from my Mom's yard, where we're slowly clearing all the planted stuff in order to let Ma Nature have her way with it. I removed them both today. Both had nice white (but VERY tender) roots growing through to the plastic. I made no attempt to remove the spaghnum; just planted each, moss and all, in its own terra cotta pot filled with good (NOT that fine junk you get from HD) potting soil, and set them out in protected locations in my yard where the watering system can reach them (as long as it's on; it goes off when freezing temps are likely). But I layered both in February, and only this week saw roots reaching the plastic. That's a pretty long time. Not sure that Marty in Oregon (?), and Henrik in Sweden would have enough growing time to develop one outdoors from a planted tree. One in a pot could be brought indoors and given better conditions for root development. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On 7 Nov 2004 at 19:18, Henrik Gistvall wrote:
MartyWeiser wrote: Iris and all, I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with airlayering. What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without). My guess is growing season. I layered a J. maple (in 2 spots) this spring from my Mom's yard, where we're slowly clearing all the planted stuff in order to let Ma Nature have her way with it. I removed them both today. Both had nice white (but VERY tender) roots growing through to the plastic. I made no attempt to remove the spaghnum; just planted each, moss and all, in its own terra cotta pot filled with good (NOT that fine junk you get from HD) potting soil, and set them out in protected locations in my yard where the watering system can reach them (as long as it's on; it goes off when freezing temps are likely). But I layered both in February, and only this week saw roots reaching the plastic. That's a pretty long time. Not sure that Marty in Oregon (?), and Henrik in Sweden would have enough growing time to develop one outdoors from a planted tree. One in a pot could be brought indoors and given better conditions for root development. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
I agree with Jim about the length of the growing season being an issue. I
also find keeping them at the right moisture level to be a potential problem. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Henrik Gistvall What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without). Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
I agree with Jim about the length of the growing season being an issue. I
also find keeping them at the right moisture level to be a potential problem. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Henrik Gistvall What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without). Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Although it is true that Some cultivars can be grown as cuttings. some do
not develop strong roots so they do better as grafts. Some cultivars have subtle differences which makes it necwsary to graft The Bloodgood grows from seeds on Long Island. Some seed grown seem to maintain the color. Matter of fact there are few cultivars developed that are just improvemeents to the Bloodgood SteveW ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Although it is true that Some cultivars can be grown as cuttings. some do
not develop strong roots so they do better as grafts. Some cultivars have subtle differences which makes it necwsary to graft The Bloodgood grows from seeds on Long Island. Some seed grown seem to maintain the color. Matter of fact there are few cultivars developed that are just improvemeents to the Bloodgood SteveW ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Although it is true that Some cultivars can be grown as cuttings. some do
not develop strong roots so they do better as grafts. Some cultivars have subtle differences which makes it necwsary to graft The Bloodgood grows from seeds on Long Island. Some seed grown seem to maintain the color. Matter of fact there are few cultivars developed that are just improvemeents to the Bloodgood SteveW ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Henrik Gistvall What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without). Then, on 7 Nov 2004 at 10:51, MartyWeiser wrote: I agree with Jim about the length of the growing season being an issue. I also find keeping them at the right moisture level to be a potential problem. And, also on 7 Nov 2004, I write: I did no extra watering. I used FRESHLY harvested sphagnum moss and wrapped it dripping wet in heavy plastic. I figured with the fairly frequent rains we get it would stay damp enough. I seem to have been right. (I've never had a layer dry out, however.) Then, reading my newest book, "Pocket Bonsai," which, generally speaking, is the exception that proves the rule in the accuracy of the horticultural info presented (in a book on Bonsai), I read in the section on air layering: "Don't worry about the moss drying out: as the new roots take in moisture, the xylem remains active and will be continually pumping water into the moss!" (!?) I'm not at all sure what this xylem pump is doing BEFORE roots form, but maybe this is one of the reasons my moss says damp enough. (?) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Henrik Gistvall What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without). Then, on 7 Nov 2004 at 10:51, MartyWeiser wrote: I agree with Jim about the length of the growing season being an issue. I also find keeping them at the right moisture level to be a potential problem. And, also on 7 Nov 2004, I write: I did no extra watering. I used FRESHLY harvested sphagnum moss and wrapped it dripping wet in heavy plastic. I figured with the fairly frequent rains we get it would stay damp enough. I seem to have been right. (I've never had a layer dry out, however.) Then, reading my newest book, "Pocket Bonsai," which, generally speaking, is the exception that proves the rule in the accuracy of the horticultural info presented (in a book on Bonsai), I read in the section on air layering: "Don't worry about the moss drying out: as the new roots take in moisture, the xylem remains active and will be continually pumping water into the moss!" (!?) I'm not at all sure what this xylem pump is doing BEFORE roots form, but maybe this is one of the reasons my moss says damp enough. (?) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Henrik Gistvall What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without). Then, on 7 Nov 2004 at 10:51, MartyWeiser wrote: I agree with Jim about the length of the growing season being an issue. I also find keeping them at the right moisture level to be a potential problem. And, also on 7 Nov 2004, I write: I did no extra watering. I used FRESHLY harvested sphagnum moss and wrapped it dripping wet in heavy plastic. I figured with the fairly frequent rains we get it would stay damp enough. I seem to have been right. (I've never had a layer dry out, however.) Then, reading my newest book, "Pocket Bonsai," which, generally speaking, is the exception that proves the rule in the accuracy of the horticultural info presented (in a book on Bonsai), I read in the section on air layering: "Don't worry about the moss drying out: as the new roots take in moisture, the xylem remains active and will be continually pumping water into the moss!" (!?) I'm not at all sure what this xylem pump is doing BEFORE roots form, but maybe this is one of the reasons my moss says damp enough. (?) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
I've been layering many Japanese maples from a tree that grew from the
stock of a failed graft. It's 6' tall and so far I've got 15 successful layers and 2 failures. They all seem to take a different length of time to work. Some fill the bag with roots in a couple of months and others take all season. I've yet to have one not root, the failures both died due to a disease of some sort that caused the whole branch to die. The layers are all slowly building a nice forest of genetically identical trees. Weird thing is that they seem to display differences in their leafing out, vigour, leaf size and fall colour and timing despite shared genetics. I assume that length of time from layering and "settling in" to growing on new roots must play a part in this. As to the xylem pump, (if it works, I've seen no evidence myself and have had to water many layers on this and other species as they dried out once roots filled the bag) I assume that it would be pumping from the bottom cut upwards? Cheers Kev Bailey Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales I'm not at all sure what this xylem pump is doing BEFORE roots form, but maybe this is one of the reasons my moss says damp enough. (?) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
I've been layering many Japanese maples from a tree that grew from the
stock of a failed graft. It's 6' tall and so far I've got 15 successful layers and 2 failures. They all seem to take a different length of time to work. Some fill the bag with roots in a couple of months and others take all season. I've yet to have one not root, the failures both died due to a disease of some sort that caused the whole branch to die. The layers are all slowly building a nice forest of genetically identical trees. Weird thing is that they seem to display differences in their leafing out, vigour, leaf size and fall colour and timing despite shared genetics. I assume that length of time from layering and "settling in" to growing on new roots must play a part in this. As to the xylem pump, (if it works, I've seen no evidence myself and have had to water many layers on this and other species as they dried out once roots filled the bag) I assume that it would be pumping from the bottom cut upwards? Cheers Kev Bailey Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales I'm not at all sure what this xylem pump is doing BEFORE roots form, but maybe this is one of the reasons my moss says damp enough. (?) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On 7 Nov 2004 at 21:39, kevin bailey wrote:
As to the xylem pump, (if it works, I've seen no evidence myself and have had to water many layers on this and other species as they dried out once roots filled the bag) I assume that it would be pumping from the bottom cut upwards? Oughta be. I'd assumed that he was implying that the moss would "wick" the moisture throughout the ball. Anyway, was news to me, too. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On 7 Nov 2004 at 21:39, kevin bailey wrote:
As to the xylem pump, (if it works, I've seen no evidence myself and have had to water many layers on this and other species as they dried out once roots filled the bag) I assume that it would be pumping from the bottom cut upwards? Oughta be. I'd assumed that he was implying that the moss would "wick" the moisture throughout the ball. Anyway, was news to me, too. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Very helpful. Thanks. I cut the strangler root off already, but it had killed
part of the trunk. I need to cut out the dead part. All the roots are growing out the back right now, so I need to root prune & do what you suggested. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra |
Very helpful. Thanks. I cut the strangler root off already, but it had killed
part of the trunk. I need to cut out the dead part. All the roots are growing out the back right now, so I need to root prune & do what you suggested. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra |
Very helpful. Thanks. I cut the strangler root off already, but it had killed
part of the trunk. I need to cut out the dead part. All the roots are growing out the back right now, so I need to root prune & do what you suggested. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra |
Then, reading my newest book, "Pocket Bonsai," which, generally
speaking, is the exception that proves the rule in the accuracy of the horticultural info presented (in a book on Bonsai), I read in the section on air layering: "Don't worry about the moss drying out: as the new roots take in moisture, the xylem remains active and will be continually pumping water into the moss!" (!?) I'm not at all sure what this xylem pump is doing BEFORE roots form, but maybe this is one of the reasons my moss says damp enough. (?) I have no idea what the author of the book is talking about. He may be saying that the parent roots of the tree are supplying water to the new roots that are forming in the air-layer; this might be true as long as there are leaves present above the air-layer area to act as transpiration pumps. But I wouldn't count on this; roots won't form on an airlayer unless the area is protected from evaporation, and the best way to make sure the sphagnum (or whatever) is still damp is to check it occasionally and moisten it. Nina |
I Like a truck that looks stressed. It gives it character. many Japanese Maples have interesting features. I have a few Palmatum seedlings that I have been working with. they come from a weeping palmatum. I made a forest of a few and I have a few that I am training as individual trees. one of these trees has the most fantastic pink color in the spring through part of the summer. You would think this is a special cultivar, but it isn't.
-- SteveW Long Island NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
I Like a truck that looks stressed. It gives it character. many Japanese Maples have interesting features. I have a few Palmatum seedlings that I have been working with. they come from a weeping palmatum. I made a forest of a few and I have a few that I am training as individual trees. one of these trees has the most fantastic pink color in the spring through part of the summer. You would think this is a special cultivar, but it isn't.
-- SteveW Long Island NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this
spring on a basic A palmatum. Pauline Muth told me the main problem is that it might take two years to root, so the first winter you have to put it in a location which is cool enough to support dormancy, but never goes below freezing. Do you have room in your refrigerator? Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra |
What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this
spring on a basic A palmatum. Pauline Muth told me the main problem is that it might take two years to root, so the first winter you have to put it in a location which is cool enough to support dormancy, but never goes below freezing. Do you have room in your refrigerator? Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra |
Iris Cohen wrote:
What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Pauline Muth told me the main problem is that it might take two years to root, so the first winter you have to put it in a location which is cool enough to support dormancy, but never goes below freezing. Do you have room in your refrigerator? It will be in the garage which is cool. It can´t take the cold here in Sweden so I have to winter it frost free any how. I´ll give it a try and see what happens. Thanks for the input everyone. Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Iris Cohen wrote: What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Pauline Muth told me the main problem is that it might take two years to root, so the first winter you have to put it in a location which is cool enough to support dormancy, but never goes below freezing. Do you have room in your refrigerator? Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra Palmatum takes from spring to july to make roots 3 -4 montas if teh work is well done , but Mr Miko Kitsune explained here to me last july that colored leaves maples sometimes are more difficult to air layer than green ones -- MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Iris Cohen wrote: What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer this spring on a basic A palmatum. Pauline Muth told me the main problem is that it might take two years to root, so the first winter you have to put it in a location which is cool enough to support dormancy, but never goes below freezing. Do you have room in your refrigerator? Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra Palmatum takes from spring to july to make roots 3 -4 montas if teh work is well done , but Mr Miko Kitsune explained here to me last july that colored leaves maples sometimes are more difficult to air layer than green ones -- MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
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