I have a small Acer palmatum that I bought unlabeled three years ago at Japan
Nursery in NJ. For the first two years it did nothing in the fall, and I was
thinking of getting rid of it because the nebari is terrible. I would call it
a clubfoot. (I finally figured out what to do with it.) However, this fall the
leaves turned an absolutely gorgeous dark red. Cranberry color.
It suddenly dawned on me that it is unlikely to be a seedling, and may well
be a named cultivar. Now I am trying to figure out which one. Here are the
clues:
It belongs to the palmatum group.
The bark is dark charcoal gray.
If it isn't a seedling, it was cutting grown on its own roots.
Considering what it's been through, it is pretty tough and disease resistant.
The leaves are not very large, and show promise of further reduction through
training.
Typical leaves have 5 deep cut lobes, sharply toothed. The middle lobe is
long & pointed. The other lobes are also sharply pointed.
Some of the leaves are still on.
Looking through Vertrees, it most closely matches the description of 'Nishiki
Momiji,' but doesn't look exactly like the pictures on the Web.
The twigs & petioles right now are dark red. I think they were green earlier.
Young leaves are light yellowish green with a reddish picotee. Summer color
is generic green.
Can anyone take a guess? I don't have a decent picture.
Iris

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there ae so many cultivars of Palmatums to pick one from the descriprion.
Development of Palmatums chosen for various reasons.It can be the leaf colors in
the spring or summer or fall.The shape or size of the leaves, or sometimes
the shape or bark colors. .
What were thr leaf colors in the spring , then summer then fall?. If the
bark turns color in the fall it can be Sango Kaku, or maybe Beni Kawa these two
cultivars are developed for their bark colors in the fall. On these 2
varieties most of the branches and twigs turn orange or red. After the leaves drop
they maintain a distinctive coral or red color all .winter,
It may also be a no particular cultivar. If you plant 100 Acer Palmatum
seeds you can get 100 variations.The leaf color and even shape of the leaf can
be different on all 100 trees. This is why there are 100s of varieties of
Palmatum.
One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to
maintain it's unique charaxteristics.and it's the only way to maitain the
Characteristics of a particular cultivar. .

SteveW
Long Island NY

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there ae so many cultivars of Palmatums to pick one from the descriprion.
Development of Palmatums chosen for various reasons.It can be the leaf colors in
the spring or summer or fall.The shape or size of the leaves, or sometimes
the shape or bark colors. .
What were thr leaf colors in the spring , then summer then fall?. If the
bark turns color in the fall it can be Sango Kaku, or maybe Beni Kawa these two
cultivars are developed for their bark colors in the fall. On these 2
varieties most of the branches and twigs turn orange or red. After the leaves drop
they maintain a distinctive coral or red color all .winter,
It may also be a no particular cultivar. If you plant 100 Acer Palmatum
seeds you can get 100 variations.The leaf color and even shape of the leaf can
be different on all 100 trees. This is why there are 100s of varieties of
Palmatum.
One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to
maintain it's unique charaxteristics.and it's the only way to maitain the
Characteristics of a particular cultivar. .

SteveW
Long Island NY

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there ae so many cultivars of Palmatums to pick one from the descriprion.
Development of Palmatums chosen for various reasons.It can be the leaf colors in
the spring or summer or fall.The shape or size of the leaves, or sometimes
the shape or bark colors. .
What were thr leaf colors in the spring , then summer then fall?. If the
bark turns color in the fall it can be Sango Kaku, or maybe Beni Kawa these two
cultivars are developed for their bark colors in the fall. On these 2
varieties most of the branches and twigs turn orange or red. After the leaves drop
they maintain a distinctive coral or red color all .winter,
It may also be a no particular cultivar. If you plant 100 Acer Palmatum
seeds you can get 100 variations.The leaf color and even shape of the leaf can
be different on all 100 trees. This is why there are 100s of varieties of
Palmatum.
One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to
maintain it's unique charaxteristics.and it's the only way to maitain the
Characteristics of a particular cultivar. .

SteveW
Long Island NY

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In a message dated 11/7/04 7:38:54 AM, SteveWachs writes:
What were the leaf colors in the spring, then summer then fall?

As I wrote, new leaves are light yellowish green with a red edge, summer
leaves are plain green, and in fall they gradually turned to a deep red.
The mature bark does not turn color in the fall. It remains dark charcoal
gray. It is not 'Sango Kaku' or anything like that.

It may also be no particular cultivar.

I'm aware of that. What is more likely is that it may be a seedling of a
known cultivar. I just thought I would ask on the chance that someone may
recognize it from the description.

*One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to*
maintain their unique characters and*it's the only way to maintain the
Characteristics of a particular cultivar.

True, but many cultivars can be cutting grown & remain true to name. My
'Butterfly' is proof of that. Also, the other reason maples & fruit trees are
grafted is to extend their hardiness, which is not such a problem with bonsai.
Despite the drawbacks, dedicated growers keep trying to produce Japanese maples
from cuttings for the bonsai trade.
The big problem with this maple is that it was left in its nursery cube way
too long, so the bottom of the trunk is like an old-fashioned Chinese woman's
foot, all knotted up with a dead lump in the middle. When I got it, there was a
terrible strangler root. I can't tell if it was originally a seedling or a
cutting. I was thinking of air-layering it, but I was told that is too risky
with Japanese maples. This winter, I will cut out all the dead area & treat the
bottom of the trunk with root hormone.
Iris
A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense. - Woody Allen


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In a message dated 11/7/04 7:38:54 AM, SteveWachs writes:
What were the leaf colors in the spring, then summer then fall?

As I wrote, new leaves are light yellowish green with a red edge, summer
leaves are plain green, and in fall they gradually turned to a deep red.
The mature bark does not turn color in the fall. It remains dark charcoal
gray. It is not 'Sango Kaku' or anything like that.

It may also be no particular cultivar.

I'm aware of that. What is more likely is that it may be a seedling of a
known cultivar. I just thought I would ask on the chance that someone may
recognize it from the description.

*One of the reasons Japanese maples are grafted in the first place is to*
maintain their unique characters and*it's the only way to maintain the
Characteristics of a particular cultivar.

True, but many cultivars can be cutting grown & remain true to name. My
'Butterfly' is proof of that. Also, the other reason maples & fruit trees are
grafted is to extend their hardiness, which is not such a problem with bonsai.
Despite the drawbacks, dedicated growers keep trying to produce Japanese maples
from cuttings for the bonsai trade.
The big problem with this maple is that it was left in its nursery cube way
too long, so the bottom of the trunk is like an old-fashioned Chinese woman's
foot, all knotted up with a dead lump in the middle. When I got it, there was a
terrible strangler root. I can't tell if it was originally a seedling or a
cutting. I was thinking of air-layering it, but I was told that is too risky
with Japanese maples. This winter, I will cut out all the dead area & treat the
bottom of the trunk with root hormone.
Iris
A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense. - Woody Allen


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Iris and all,

I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through
drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with
airlayering.

I would repot in the spring cutting out all of the roots that are growing
down and spreading the remaining roots - cut off the strangler root or at
least make some solid cuts in it to promote growth of roots from it. Use a
somewhat largish, but rather flat pot with good draining soil and make sure
you tie it in the pot very well. Make sure any cuts that you want to root
are under enough soil so they won't dry out - a little sphagnum moss on the
cut site also seems to help. I have never bothered with rooting hormone,
but use it if you like.

Plan to repot in one to two years depending upon how strong the tree grows -
let the top grow wild for the first year if the goal is to improve the
roots. Once again remove the bottom roots and also make sure you cut back
the large surface roots nearly to the base of the trunk with a cut that is
longer on the top than the bottom - you want them sprout a couple of smaller
roots that are better matched with the others. When repeated a couple of
times this process will give a good nebari.

The good thing about maples (particularly Japanese Maples) is that they will
tolerate severe root pruning very well so you can recover from the clustered
roots caused by just moving the plant into the next larger pot without doing
any root work. It is much harder for pines and similar trees and the lose
rate with aggressive root pruning is higher, but it is possible to fix bad
roots even in those species. Of course you can grow your trees from seed
and get perfect roots (a great way to learn how to do root pruning) or buy
from folks like EvergreenGardenWorks that do some root work when they move
the tree into a larger pot. They can't afford to completely sort out the
root system, but at least it will not be a tangled mess.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of


The big problem with this maple is that it was left in its nursery cube way
too long, so the bottom of the trunk is like an old-fashioned Chinese
woman's
foot, all knotted up with a dead lump in the middle. When I got it, there
was a
terrible strangler root. I can't tell if it was originally a seedling or a
cutting. I was thinking of air-layering it, but I was told that is too risky

with Japanese maples. This winter, I will cut out all the dead area & treat
the
bottom of the trunk with root hormone.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Iris and all,

I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through
drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with
airlayering.

I would repot in the spring cutting out all of the roots that are growing
down and spreading the remaining roots - cut off the strangler root or at
least make some solid cuts in it to promote growth of roots from it. Use a
somewhat largish, but rather flat pot with good draining soil and make sure
you tie it in the pot very well. Make sure any cuts that you want to root
are under enough soil so they won't dry out - a little sphagnum moss on the
cut site also seems to help. I have never bothered with rooting hormone,
but use it if you like.

Plan to repot in one to two years depending upon how strong the tree grows -
let the top grow wild for the first year if the goal is to improve the
roots. Once again remove the bottom roots and also make sure you cut back
the large surface roots nearly to the base of the trunk with a cut that is
longer on the top than the bottom - you want them sprout a couple of smaller
roots that are better matched with the others. When repeated a couple of
times this process will give a good nebari.

The good thing about maples (particularly Japanese Maples) is that they will
tolerate severe root pruning very well so you can recover from the clustered
roots caused by just moving the plant into the next larger pot without doing
any root work. It is much harder for pines and similar trees and the lose
rate with aggressive root pruning is higher, but it is possible to fix bad
roots even in those species. Of course you can grow your trees from seed
and get perfect roots (a great way to learn how to do root pruning) or buy
from folks like EvergreenGardenWorks that do some root work when they move
the tree into a larger pot. They can't afford to completely sort out the
root system, but at least it will not be a tangled mess.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of


The big problem with this maple is that it was left in its nursery cube way
too long, so the bottom of the trunk is like an old-fashioned Chinese
woman's
foot, all knotted up with a dead lump in the middle. When I got it, there
was a
terrible strangler root. I can't tell if it was originally a seedling or a
cutting. I was thinking of air-layering it, but I was told that is too risky

with Japanese maples. This winter, I will cut out all the dead area & treat
the
bottom of the trunk with root hormone.

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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MartyWeiser wrote:

Iris and all,

I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through
drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with
airlayering.

What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer
this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died
back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a
multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might
add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without).

Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden.

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MartyWeiser wrote:

Iris and all,

I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through
drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with
airlayering.

What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer
this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died
back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a
multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might
add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without).

Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden.

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On 7 Nov 2004 at 19:18, Henrik Gistvall wrote:

MartyWeiser wrote:

Iris and all,

I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through
drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with
airlayering.

What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer
this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died
back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a
multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might
add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without).


My guess is growing season. I layered a J. maple (in 2 spots)
this spring from my Mom's yard, where we're slowly clearing all
the planted stuff in order to let Ma Nature have her way with
it.

I removed them both today. Both had nice white (but VERY
tender) roots growing through to the plastic. I made no attempt
to remove the spaghnum; just planted each, moss and all, in its
own terra cotta pot filled with good (NOT that fine junk you get
from HD) potting soil, and set them out in protected locations
in my yard where the watering system can reach them (as long as
it's on; it goes off when freezing temps are likely).

But I layered both in February, and only this week saw roots
reaching the plastic. That's a pretty long time. Not sure that
Marty in Oregon (?), and Henrik in Sweden would have enough
growing time to develop one outdoors from a planted tree. One
in a pot could be brought indoors and given better conditions
for root development.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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On 7 Nov 2004 at 19:18, Henrik Gistvall wrote:

MartyWeiser wrote:

Iris and all,

I have had great luck in developing good nebari on Japanese Maples through
drastic root pruning over a period of years. I have had less success with
airlayering.

What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer
this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died
back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a
multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might
add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without).


My guess is growing season. I layered a J. maple (in 2 spots)
this spring from my Mom's yard, where we're slowly clearing all
the planted stuff in order to let Ma Nature have her way with
it.

I removed them both today. Both had nice white (but VERY
tender) roots growing through to the plastic. I made no attempt
to remove the spaghnum; just planted each, moss and all, in its
own terra cotta pot filled with good (NOT that fine junk you get
from HD) potting soil, and set them out in protected locations
in my yard where the watering system can reach them (as long as
it's on; it goes off when freezing temps are likely).

But I layered both in February, and only this week saw roots
reaching the plastic. That's a pretty long time. Not sure that
Marty in Oregon (?), and Henrik in Sweden would have enough
growing time to develop one outdoors from a planted tree. One
in a pot could be brought indoors and given better conditions
for root development.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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I agree with Jim about the length of the growing season being an issue. I
also find keeping them at the right moisture level to be a potential
problem. - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Henrik Gistvall


What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer
this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died
back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a
multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might
add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without).

Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden.

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I agree with Jim about the length of the growing season being an issue. I
also find keeping them at the right moisture level to be a potential
problem. - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Henrik Gistvall


What has been the problem with the airlayering? I´m planning an airlayer
this spring on a basic A palmatum. Was an dissectum graft but it died
back. Three suckers developed from the base and I have trained it like a
multi trunk. Now I need to airlayer it. Any tips for success? (I might
add that rooting hormones is illegal in Sweden so I have to do without).

Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden.

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Although it is true that Some cultivars can be grown as cuttings. some do
not develop strong roots so they do better as grafts. Some cultivars have subtle
differences which makes it necwsary to graft The Bloodgood grows from seeds
on Long Island. Some seed grown seem to maintain the color. Matter of fact
there are few cultivars developed that are just improvemeents to the Bloodgood

SteveW


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