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-   -   [IBC] Off topics (https://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/bonsai/88365-%5Bibc%5D-off-topics.html)

Henrik Gistvall 05-01-2005 10:29 AM

[IBC] Off topics
 
I´m getting really tired of all these off topics posted on this list.
BUT EVEN MORE SO ALL THOSE PEOPLE RESPONDING TO OFF TOPIC SUBJECTS! (Yes
I´m screaming at you!).

This is an american list so we all just have to accept Seasonsgreetings,
4th of july greetings and thanksgivings greetings. Sometimes other off
topics comes upp as well as the one with american soldiers, OK so what,
it is an american list. But please, please respond in private to off
topic subject, whether you think its good or not. Jim used to keep this
list in a thight leash, but I think it´s slacking. This fall there has
been more and more off topic discussions. If this dosen´t stop this will
be my last post to this list (if anyone cares ;-)). And please respond
to me off list If you have a problem with it, OK!

(Yeah, yeah I know I´m no better posting this message so you don´t have
to write and tell me)

Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden

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Richard Patefield 05-01-2005 12:17 PM

Henrik Gistvall wrote:

This is an american list...


No it isn't. This is the kind of ignorance that leads to these messages
being posted in the first place.

If you want less spam, don't post any.

Richard


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Jim Lewis 05-01-2005 02:15 PM

On 5 Jan 2005 at 12:14, Richard Patefield wrote:

Henrik Gistvall wrote:


This is an american list...


Richard interjected:


No it isn't.


I assert:

Well, if you snipped apart all of the membership addresses, and
put them into a balance -- USAians in one side and everyone else
in the other -- I'm afraid that the balance _would_ tilt to the
USAian side.

It certainly would tilt to the side of members for whom English
is the primary language.

That said, it is the only mailing list/newsgroup (organization)
with a truly international membership. (I know of Italian-,
Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking bonsai lists, and there
probably are others. But they're quite a bit smaller than the
IBC.)

And, since it is directly connected to a USENET news group, we
on the mailing list just have to put up with the occasional
"troll" (troublemaker) who drifts by with the sole purpose of
causing trouble by crossposting to as many newsgroups as
possible.

You usually can spot these by the subject line and if you only
want to talk bonsai you can delete those which are not on that
subject without opening them. And Henrik, you CERTAINLY do not
have to look at any web page they point you at. (That could be
a dangerous move, anyway, since that page could be filled with
all kinds of viruses and other nasties.)

But, as Henrik says, you certainly should NOT respond on the
list because those people will only laugh. They check in to the
news group occasionally to laugh at the trouble they cause (and
if they were very successful, that encourages them to post
AGAIN). Respond to them directly if you MUST, but that also
only encourages them -- assuming they use a real address.

The best bet: IGNORE them. Hit DELETE and go on with your life.

The list managers sometimes warn you not to respond, but that
just clutters things up too and is the same thing as responding.
So usually, you never heard from me, as you don't hear from
Shelly now. We just hope(ed) that common sense would prevail.

If they (the trolls) keep on trying, the list manager can keep
those messages from reaching the list -- unless someone from the
newsgroup responds.

If we behave, however, they'll learn that we're too smart for
them and won't bother. (hint)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - List
Manager emeritus

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Wendy Fissel 05-01-2005 03:07 PM

Hello all!

While it is not an "American" list, Henrik has a genuine point. Even
lurkers like myself have considered unsubscribing from the list at times due
to the "relative" proliferation of off-topic religious/cultural/political
discussions. These appear to be propagated by seemingly just a few members,
not just trolls as Jim describes. Richard is right, rec.arts.bonsai
contributes largely to this and dumping it might be an option, but this is
just a part.

This has been a fabulous forum for bonsai information. Having a multitude of
professional and/or experienced opinions is critical to learning about
bonsai, but some posters might choose better self-restraint. Anytime
politics or religion of any type are mixed in a public forum, opinions will
be voiced.

I hope Henrik's message helps everyone to evaluate their own posting
protocol and sensitivities.

Best wishes,

-Wendy

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Jim Lewis 05-01-2005 04:06 PM

On 5 Jan 2005 at 14:41, Richard Patefield wrote:

Hello Jim and others,
Get rid of the link to usenet and you can get rid of spam and trolls.
Keep it and you are forever stuck with them on the list..

All my inbox spam comes from posting to the bonsai list. We post to the
list, our email addresses go into usenet, they are harvested and we get
the Cheap Rolex, Viagra, Enhancement, 419 Fraud etc emails.

The link should be broken. As far as I can recall we only keep it
because some users don't like a high volume list.


There are 500 members of the list. I've estimatred over the
years that the newsgroup adds almost that much -- as well as
almost ALL of the newcomers to the art that we're trying to help
-- and attract.

So I've never considered that a real option. If you have good
spam filters, a good ISP (NOT AOL, MSN etc.), and spyware/virus
protection all the newsgroup adds is a little aggravation on
fairly rare occasions.




There may be some liability incurred by the IBC by the act of forwarding
mails to usenet. The list is giving the spambots the users' addresses
and exposing all of us to the risks so often pointed out in these
conversations.

Phoo! Who's liable? And for- what? We don't exist as a formal
group. And people use the I'net purely at their own risk and
have back as far as I've been involved and that's a LONG time.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
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http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Marty Haber 05-01-2005 05:38 PM

Hey, Wendy! I hope you continue to lurk. You can tell that it's winter
time.
The bonsai are in the ground or in cold frames, so some of our
correspondents grab us to harp on their favorite isms. My favorite is
Humanism, but I won't get started on that thread here.
Anyway, I've got work to do. Its time to work on my February newsletter.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wendy Fissel"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 9:56 AM
Subject: [IBC] Off topics (longish)


Hello all!

While it is not an "American" list, Henrik has a genuine point. Even
lurkers like myself have considered unsubscribing from the list at times
due
to the "relative" proliferation of off-topic religious/cultural/political
discussions. These appear to be propagated by seemingly just a few
members,
not just trolls as Jim describes. Richard is right, rec.arts.bonsai
contributes largely to this and dumping it might be an option, but this is
just a part.

This has been a fabulous forum for bonsai information. Having a multitude
of
professional and/or experienced opinions is critical to learning about
bonsai, but some posters might choose better self-restraint. Anytime
politics or religion of any type are mixed in a public forum, opinions
will
be voiced.

I hope Henrik's message helps everyone to evaluate their own posting
protocol and sensitivities.

Best wishes,

-Wendy

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Jim Lewis 05-01-2005 10:54 PM

On 5 Jan 2005 at 22:27, Richard Patefield wrote:

wrote about the contribution of the usenet group to
our community:

There are 500 members of the list. I've estimatred over the
years that the newsgroup adds almost that much -- as well as
almost ALL of the newcomers to the art that we're trying to help
-- and attract.


The truth is that noone knows how many people read or post to the newsgroup.


Ackshully, after being on this list as long as I have been, and
being manager of the list for 2/3 of that time, I've gone over
the list of mail subscribers often enough to know it by heart.

I also know the regulars to the group who are NOT on the list,
and can identify the newbies who arrive crying for help. It
only takes a LITTLE thought to figure it out, Richard (and the
ability to go behind the list scenes that regular members don't
have. ;-)

Jim Lewis -
- Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Jim Lewis 05-01-2005 10:54 PM

On 5 Jan 2005 at 22:27, Richard Patefield wrote:

wrote about the contribution of the usenet group to
our community:

There are 500 members of the list. I've estimatred over the
years that the newsgroup adds almost that much -- as well as
almost ALL of the newcomers to the art that we're trying to help
-- and attract.


The truth is that noone knows how many people read or post to the newsgroup.


Ackshully, after being on this list as long as I have been, and
being manager of the list for 2/3 of that time, I've gone over
the list of mail subscribers often enough to know it by heart.

I also know the regulars to the group who are NOT on the list,
and can identify the newbies who arrive crying for help. It
only takes a LITTLE thought to figure it out, Richard (and the
ability to go behind the list scenes that regular members don't
have. ;-)

Jim Lewis -
- Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Richard Patefield 05-01-2005 11:26 PM

What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and
rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general
or anything touching on our subject?

respectfully,
Richard


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Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Richard Patefield 05-01-2005 11:26 PM

What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and
rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general
or anything touching on our subject?

respectfully,
Richard


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Iris Cohen 06-01-2005 02:40 AM

The bonsai are in the ground or in cold frames, so some of our
correspondents grab us to harp on their favorite isms.

And my favorite ism here is grow-bonsai-all-year-long ism. Nowadays, no matter
how traditional you are, you can grow real bonsai indoors in the winter, just
not traditional Japanese species (except Serissa).
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense." - Woody Allen

Iris Cohen 06-01-2005 02:40 AM

The bonsai are in the ground or in cold frames, so some of our
correspondents grab us to harp on their favorite isms.

And my favorite ism here is grow-bonsai-all-year-long ism. Nowadays, no matter
how traditional you are, you can grow real bonsai indoors in the winter, just
not traditional Japanese species (except Serissa).
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense." - Woody Allen

Anita Hawkins 06-01-2005 03:05 AM

Richard Patefield wrote:
What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and
rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general
or anything touching on our subject?

respectfully,
Richard


Hi Richard,
The rec.arts group is searchable back at least a number of years thru
any Web search engine, and that's an advantage to the hobby. And, as
Jim L. pointed out, many newbies who have no reason to suspect the
mailing list exists (and no reason to want 20-50 emails a day!) first
ask questions thru the easily-discoverable newsgroup. Encouraging
newbies benefits the hobby 'cause we were all new once!

Anita
---
Northern Harford County, Maryland, USDA zone 6
"I am not bound for any public place, but for ground of my own where I
have planted vines and orchard trees, and in the heat of the day
climbed up into the healing shadow of the woods. Better than any
argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red berries in a cup."
~Wendell Berry

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Anita Hawkins 06-01-2005 03:05 AM

Richard Patefield wrote:
What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and
rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general
or anything touching on our subject?

respectfully,
Richard


Hi Richard,
The rec.arts group is searchable back at least a number of years thru
any Web search engine, and that's an advantage to the hobby. And, as
Jim L. pointed out, many newbies who have no reason to suspect the
mailing list exists (and no reason to want 20-50 emails a day!) first
ask questions thru the easily-discoverable newsgroup. Encouraging
newbies benefits the hobby 'cause we were all new once!

Anita
---
Northern Harford County, Maryland, USDA zone 6
"I am not bound for any public place, but for ground of my own where I
have planted vines and orchard trees, and in the heat of the day
climbed up into the healing shadow of the woods. Better than any
argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red berries in a cup."
~Wendell Berry

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Jim Lewis 06-01-2005 02:56 PM

On 5 Jan 2005 at 23:24, Richard Patefield wrote:

What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and
rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general
or anything touching on our subject?

respectfully,
Richard



It depends on what you want for the list. If you want an
elitist group, where experienced bonsiests talk only with
experienced bonsaiests you would drop RAB. (Or you would hang
out exclusively on the "Main Gallery" on our IBC gallery an
pound each other on the back for all their "great" trees.)

If you want to help newcomers, puzzled neophytes whose Serissa
just dropped all its leaves, and encourage these folks to join
the sport of bonsai you would enjoy it. Depends on how selfish
you are, I guess.

But since dropping the news group isn't an issue I don't know
why we're discussing this.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Richard Patefield 06-01-2005 05:23 PM

King Lear wrote:

snipped

Jim, you are a bully but i am not a victim. You fail to answer the
question and choose to insult me instead. But that's ok, each responds
as they feel appropriate.
Others did have the manners to respond in a meaningful way, so thanks to
them for concentrating on the spam issue rather than attack me for
attempting a discussion, or even god forbid, suggesting that something
might change.

Richard


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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Kitsune Miko 06-01-2005 05:35 PM

Richard,

When I don't want to follow a topic, I just hit the
delete key. I read your original post and a few in
between, but not all. Looking at your original note
and the volume it generated, I would have to say you
defeated your own purpose, that you have been off
topic for quite a while. Yes, you are free to have a
discussion about spam but please take if off list as
your posts on spam are now spam to me (i.e. unsolicied
mail).

Kits
--- Richard Patefield wrote:

King Lear wrote:

snipped

Jim, you are a bully but i am not a victim. You fail
to answer the
question and choose to insult me instead. But that's
ok, each responds
as they feel appropriate.
Others did have the manners to respond in a
meaningful way, so thanks to
them for concentrating on the spam issue rather than
attack me for
attempting a discussion, or even god forbid,
suggesting that something
might change.

Richard


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release
Date: 1/3/2005


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon
Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Richard Patefield 06-01-2005 05:44 PM

Kitsune Miko wrote:

Richard,

When I don't want to follow a topic, I just hit the
delete key. I read your original post and a few in
between, but not all.


So why didn't you just delete them?

Because you wanted to promote your view just like me, just like, Jim,
just like everyone else.

You are doing the very thing you are telling me not to do - do you
understand this?

R.


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Richard Patefield 06-01-2005 05:44 PM

Kitsune Miko wrote:

Richard,

When I don't want to follow a topic, I just hit the
delete key. I read your original post and a few in
between, but not all.


So why didn't you just delete them?

Because you wanted to promote your view just like me, just like, Jim,
just like everyone else.

You are doing the very thing you are telling me not to do - do you
understand this?

R.


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Theo 06-01-2005 06:55 PM

HI Richard Hi to all members of this list

Richard Patefield wrote:

King Lear wrote:

snipped

Jim, you are a bully but i am not a victim. You fail to answer the
question and choose to insult me instead. But that's ok, each responds
as they feel appropriate.
Others did have the manners to respond in a meaningful way, so thanks to
them for concentrating on the spam issue rather than attack me for
attempting a discussion, or even god forbid, suggesting that something
might change.

Richard


I guessed that are different ways to read this NG I never had spams
from here ( unless one consider SPAM New year or Christmas
greetings or the Military film )
I think we should apply the saying :
* mind is like a parachute is worthy only when open*
an open mind is to accept a joke a greet even if is not concerning
our strict beliefs or point of views..it is a matter of respect for
the others memebers ..
otherwise either we are immature and childish with our nagging
reactions or we are like dried out old driftwood just good for the
incineration...

Discussing about bonsai here is the MAIN topic but LIFE GOES ON
anyway and some disgression sometimes does not kill nor ever killed
anyone in the past as far as I know .

As for spams but REAL SPAMS I have about sex or medicaments or
loans thought my Eudora or a provider.. but that's the net today ....
we have to react with what we have as anti spam ..

This list is in english speaking list and by the names acronyms or
tag names ,nobody can guess who is who and where he lives or in what
believes so we do not know
if we are talking with an european australian Chinese or Hindu
America is a Melting pot so all these nationalitis are brewed in ..
Does it makes a difference? we have a common interest: Bonsai but
beside of it life continues for each of us in our ways ..






MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :

«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»


Anil Kaushik 07-01-2005 03:25 PM

Hello Theo - I agree with you to a fair extent. Bonsai practice and the
sharing of information about it, is an excellent stress busting activity.
But serious and heavy discussion on a topic sometimes becomes stressful and
counter productive, defeating the very purpose of managing stress. Drifting
little off the topic sometimes gives relief, like comic or tragic relief in
a movie or drama. Unlike emotionless ROBOTS we can occasionally express
ourselves with greetings, sympathies and other emotions. However some
negative emotions like anger, sarcasm and criticism should be avoided. And
last but not the least the main thrust should remain on the Bonsai related
topics.

With Regards

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Theo"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:25 AM
Subject: [IBC] Off topics (longish)


HI Richard Hi to all members of this list

Richard Patefield wrote:

King Lear wrote:

snipped


I guessed that are different ways to read this NG I never had spams
from here ( unless one consider SPAM New year or Christmas
greetings or the Military film )
I think we should apply the saying :
* mind is like a parachute is worthy only when open*
an open mind is to accept a joke a greet even if is not concerning
our strict beliefs or point of views..it is a matter of respect for
the others memebers ..
otherwise either we are immature and childish with our nagging
reactions or we are like dried out old driftwood just good for the
incineration...

Discussing about bonsai here is the MAIN topic but LIFE GOES ON
anyway and some disgression sometimes does not kill nor ever killed
anyone in the past as far as I know .

As for spams but REAL SPAMS I have about sex or medicaments or
loans thought my Eudora or a provider.. but that's the net today ....
we have to react with what we have as anti spam ..

This list is in english speaking list and by the names acronyms or
tag names ,nobody can guess who is who and where he lives or in what
believes so we do not know
if we are talking with an european australian Chinese or Hindu
America is a Melting pot so all these nationalitis are brewed in ..
Does it makes a difference? we have a common interest: Bonsai but
beside of it life continues for each of us in our ways ..

MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :

«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Anil Kaushik 07-01-2005 03:25 PM

Hello Theo - I agree with you to a fair extent. Bonsai practice and the
sharing of information about it, is an excellent stress busting activity.
But serious and heavy discussion on a topic sometimes becomes stressful and
counter productive, defeating the very purpose of managing stress. Drifting
little off the topic sometimes gives relief, like comic or tragic relief in
a movie or drama. Unlike emotionless ROBOTS we can occasionally express
ourselves with greetings, sympathies and other emotions. However some
negative emotions like anger, sarcasm and criticism should be avoided. And
last but not the least the main thrust should remain on the Bonsai related
topics.

With Regards

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Theo"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:25 AM
Subject: [IBC] Off topics (longish)


HI Richard Hi to all members of this list

Richard Patefield wrote:

King Lear wrote:

snipped


I guessed that are different ways to read this NG I never had spams
from here ( unless one consider SPAM New year or Christmas
greetings or the Military film )
I think we should apply the saying :
* mind is like a parachute is worthy only when open*
an open mind is to accept a joke a greet even if is not concerning
our strict beliefs or point of views..it is a matter of respect for
the others memebers ..
otherwise either we are immature and childish with our nagging
reactions or we are like dried out old driftwood just good for the
incineration...

Discussing about bonsai here is the MAIN topic but LIFE GOES ON
anyway and some disgression sometimes does not kill nor ever killed
anyone in the past as far as I know .

As for spams but REAL SPAMS I have about sex or medicaments or
loans thought my Eudora or a provider.. but that's the net today ....
we have to react with what we have as anti spam ..

This list is in english speaking list and by the names acronyms or
tag names ,nobody can guess who is who and where he lives or in what
believes so we do not know
if we are talking with an european australian Chinese or Hindu
America is a Melting pot so all these nationalitis are brewed in ..
Does it makes a difference? we have a common interest: Bonsai but
beside of it life continues for each of us in our ways ..

MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :

«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Anil Kaushik 07-01-2005 03:25 PM

Hello Theo - I agree with you to a fair extent. Bonsai practice and the
sharing of information about it, is an excellent stress busting activity.
But serious and heavy discussion on a topic sometimes becomes stressful and
counter productive, defeating the very purpose of managing stress. Drifting
little off the topic sometimes gives relief, like comic or tragic relief in
a movie or drama. Unlike emotionless ROBOTS we can occasionally express
ourselves with greetings, sympathies and other emotions. However some
negative emotions like anger, sarcasm and criticism should be avoided. And
last but not the least the main thrust should remain on the Bonsai related
topics.

With Regards

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Theo"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:25 AM
Subject: [IBC] Off topics (longish)


HI Richard Hi to all members of this list

Richard Patefield wrote:

King Lear wrote:

snipped


I guessed that are different ways to read this NG I never had spams
from here ( unless one consider SPAM New year or Christmas
greetings or the Military film )
I think we should apply the saying :
* mind is like a parachute is worthy only when open*
an open mind is to accept a joke a greet even if is not concerning
our strict beliefs or point of views..it is a matter of respect for
the others memebers ..
otherwise either we are immature and childish with our nagging
reactions or we are like dried out old driftwood just good for the
incineration...

Discussing about bonsai here is the MAIN topic but LIFE GOES ON
anyway and some disgression sometimes does not kill nor ever killed
anyone in the past as far as I know .

As for spams but REAL SPAMS I have about sex or medicaments or
loans thought my Eudora or a provider.. but that's the net today ....
we have to react with what we have as anti spam ..

This list is in english speaking list and by the names acronyms or
tag names ,nobody can guess who is who and where he lives or in what
believes so we do not know
if we are talking with an european australian Chinese or Hindu
America is a Melting pot so all these nationalitis are brewed in ..
Does it makes a difference? we have a common interest: Bonsai but
beside of it life continues for each of us in our ways ..

MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :

«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Theo 07-01-2005 06:30 PM

HI Anil
that's right even in The Financial times or Playboy you have some comic
strips :-) to manage stress :-D
smiling use less muscles than a grim face this is why I look 45
instead of 62 :-)
Cheers
Theo



Anil Kaushik wrote:

Hello Theo - I agree with you to a fair extent. Bonsai practice and the
sharing of information about it, is an excellent stress busting activity.
But serious and heavy discussion on a topic sometimes becomes stressful and
counter productive, defeating the very purpose of managing stress. Drifting
little off the topic sometimes gives relief, like comic or tragic relief in
a movie or drama. Unlike emotionless ROBOTS we can occasionally express
ourselves with greetings, sympathies and other emotions. However some
negative emotions like anger, sarcasm and criticism should be avoided. And
last but not the least the main thrust should remain on the Bonsai related
topics.

With Regards

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Theo"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:25 AM
Subject: [IBC] Off topics (longish)



HI Richard Hi to all members of this list

Richard Patefield wrote:


King Lear wrote:

snipped



I guessed that are different ways to read this NG I never had spams
from here ( unless one consider SPAM New year or Christmas
greetings or the Military film )
I think we should apply the saying :
* mind is like a parachute is worthy only when open*
an open mind is to accept a joke a greet even if is not concerning
our strict beliefs or point of views..it is a matter of respect for
the others memebers ..
otherwise either we are immature and childish with our nagging
reactions or we are like dried out old driftwood just good for the
incineration...

Discussing about bonsai here is the MAIN topic but LIFE GOES ON
anyway and some disgression sometimes does not kill nor ever killed
anyone in the past as far as I know .

As for spams but REAL SPAMS I have about sex or medicaments or
loans thought my Eudora or a provider.. but that's the net today ....
we have to react with what we have as anti spam ..

This list is in english speaking list and by the names acronyms or
tag names ,nobody can guess who is who and where he lives or in what
believes so we do not know
if we are talking with an european australian Chinese or Hindu
America is a Melting pot so all these nationalitis are brewed in ..
Does it makes a difference? we have a common interest: Bonsai but
beside of it life continues for each of us in our ways ..

MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :

«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»



************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************

-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


--
MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :

«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»


Theo 07-01-2005 06:30 PM

HI Anil
that's right even in The Financial times or Playboy you have some comic
strips :-) to manage stress :-D
smiling use less muscles than a grim face this is why I look 45
instead of 62 :-)
Cheers
Theo



Anil Kaushik wrote:

Hello Theo - I agree with you to a fair extent. Bonsai practice and the
sharing of information about it, is an excellent stress busting activity.
But serious and heavy discussion on a topic sometimes becomes stressful and
counter productive, defeating the very purpose of managing stress. Drifting
little off the topic sometimes gives relief, like comic or tragic relief in
a movie or drama. Unlike emotionless ROBOTS we can occasionally express
ourselves with greetings, sympathies and other emotions. However some
negative emotions like anger, sarcasm and criticism should be avoided. And
last but not the least the main thrust should remain on the Bonsai related
topics.

With Regards

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Theo"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:25 AM
Subject: [IBC] Off topics (longish)



HI Richard Hi to all members of this list

Richard Patefield wrote:


King Lear wrote:

snipped



I guessed that are different ways to read this NG I never had spams
from here ( unless one consider SPAM New year or Christmas
greetings or the Military film )
I think we should apply the saying :
* mind is like a parachute is worthy only when open*
an open mind is to accept a joke a greet even if is not concerning
our strict beliefs or point of views..it is a matter of respect for
the others memebers ..
otherwise either we are immature and childish with our nagging
reactions or we are like dried out old driftwood just good for the
incineration...

Discussing about bonsai here is the MAIN topic but LIFE GOES ON
anyway and some disgression sometimes does not kill nor ever killed
anyone in the past as far as I know .

As for spams but REAL SPAMS I have about sex or medicaments or
loans thought my Eudora or a provider.. but that's the net today ....
we have to react with what we have as anti spam ..

This list is in english speaking list and by the names acronyms or
tag names ,nobody can guess who is who and where he lives or in what
believes so we do not know
if we are talking with an european australian Chinese or Hindu
America is a Melting pot so all these nationalitis are brewed in ..
Does it makes a difference? we have a common interest: Bonsai but
beside of it life continues for each of us in our ways ..

MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :

«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»



************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************

-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


--
MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :

«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»


Shelly Hurd 11-01-2005 09:40 PM

Well Folks, as you might have noticed, I really have had only time to keep
the list running lately. But today I see this and think, you know Henrik is
right. He notes that Jim kept the list on a tight leash, something I really
prefer not to do, so long as you are all talking bonsai. BUT YOUR NOT.

So let me be crystal clear here. Please keep the list for what it is meant
to be. Bonsai. Remember it's meant to help others. If you aren't helping,
or requesting help, just read, DON'T POST.

You want stricter administration. No worries. Look for notices that you
have been removed from the list, or placed on review. Your posts will show
up someday . . . maybe.

RESPOND TO THIS POST PRIVATELY. If you post a reply to THIS post on the
list, I will know immeadiately that you can't read or comprehend what you're
reading and will have no problem removing you.

Shelly Hurd - List Manager.
Look for further JOY from your administrator soon.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Kram 12-01-2005 01:38 AM

Please keep your dirty laundry on the Bonsai list server WHERE it
belongs, This is a Newgroup I for one don't need to read your pompous
arrogant garbage.

Please try and remove me!

Mark



Well Folks, as you might have noticed, I really have had only time to keep
the list running lately. But today I see this and think, you know Henrik is
right. He notes that Jim kept the list on a tight leash, something I really
prefer not to do, so long as you are all talking bonsai. BUT YOUR NOT.

So let me be crystal clear here. Please keep the list for what it is meant
to be. Bonsai. Remember it's meant to help others. If you aren't helping,
or requesting help, just read, DON'T POST.

You want stricter administration. No worries. Look for notices that you
have been removed from the list, or placed on review. Your posts will show
up someday . . . maybe.

RESPOND TO THIS POST PRIVATELY. If you post a reply to THIS post on the
list, I will know immeadiately that you can't read or comprehend what you're
reading and will have no problem removing you.

Shelly Hurd - List Manager.
Look for further JOY from your administrator soon.

************************************************* *******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************* *******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



Richard 12-01-2005 02:07 AM

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 01:38:48 GMT, Kram wrote:

Please keep your dirty laundry on the Bonsai list server WHERE it
belongs, This is a Newgroup I for one don't need to read your pompous
arrogant garbage.

Please try and remove me!

Mark


I can only agree that Shelly's message was totally misjudged and just
goes to show that even the listmod doesn't understand the full
implications of the list/newsgroup link.

I'll be joining kram from now on in his unmoderated and democratic
forum.

Richard

Gary Woods 12-01-2005 02:21 AM

(Shelly Hurd) wrote:

RESPOND TO THIS POST PRIVATELY. If you post a reply to THIS post on the
list, I will know immeadiately that you can't read or comprehend what you're
reading and will have no problem removing you.


I am responding in the newsgroup, since I'm not a member of the list; you
do know, don't you, that the bonsai list also posts to a public newsgroup
where mere Bonsai dilettantes can read the petulant outbursts?

FWIW.

More on topic- I now have a bunch of Serissas propagated from cuttings that
I have not (yet) managed to kill.

Life is good.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G


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