uhoh
 

i suspect i shall have a surplus of
soybeans.

yesterday was the first chance i'd had
to start shelling the harvest.

the first paper bag full came in over
5lbs (i think my whole harvest last year
was about 4.5lbs).

i have another 8 - 15 bags yet to go
(don't know for sure because some are
still in trays drying).

in the meantime, i'm looking out the
window at the first sleet/snow of the season
and very glad i finished leveling two gardens
last week and got the bulbs all replanted.

the second strawberry patch is mulched
and the third strawberry patch is started
with the potted transplants i had standing
by (waiting for the beans to be finished
and harvested). surrounded by garlic as
there is no fence around that area and we
have bunnies and deer that sometimes come
through. however, this year we've had a
hawk hunting and i suspect it has given
the bunnies a challenge.

a dozen bags of shredded leaves to bury
and mix in many gardens with the shredded bark
to keep the worms happy for the winter. not
going to put any of this on the clay out
back as that already has had a good cover.

one last garden to chop and bury (the
peas i planted in August) sometime this
weekend when the weather is supposed to
clear for a bit.

so back to the soybeans today. :) it's
music to my ears hearing them bouncing off
and rolling down the cardboard.


songbird

uhoh
 

"songbird" wrote in message
...
i suspect i shall have a surplus of
soybeans.

Nice post Bird - sounds like life is good for you. Now, 'bout those
soybeans.... How does one go about growing soybeans please? How deep, how
far apart, what sort of soil conditions, when etc? and can you gorw soy
beans from the stock you'd buy at a Health food shop or does one have to buy
special seed soy beans. TIA.

uhoh
 

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
u...
"songbird" wrote in message
...
i suspect i shall have a surplus of
soybeans.

Nice post Bird - sounds like life is good for you. Now, 'bout those
soybeans.... How does one go about growing soybeans please? How deep,
how far apart, what sort of soil conditions, when etc? and can you gorw
soy beans from the stock you'd buy at a Health food shop or does one have
to buy special seed soy beans. TIA.


I have had luck sprouting the soy beans from out local weigh and pay so I
see no reason why they wouldn't grow, if the wife didn't eat them. As to
how deep and how far that's beyond me.

Mike

uhoh
 

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:52:48 +1100, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"songbird" wrote in message
...
i suspect i shall have a surplus of
soybeans.

Nice post Bird - sounds like life is good for you. Now, 'bout those
soybeans.... How does one go about growing soybeans please? How deep, how
far apart, what sort of soil conditions, when etc? and can you gorw soy
beans from the stock you'd buy at a Health food shop or does one have to buy
special seed soy beans. TIA.


The directions on my purchased green soybean seeds say:
"Any good garden soil will grow soybeans. After last frost in
spring, sow about 6 -10 seeds/ft., 1" deep, rows 15 - 30" apart
depending on method of cultivation. Reduce seeding rate somewhat for
more narrow row spacing. Thinning is not necessary."

Sounds pretty much like most beans I have grown.
--
USA
North Carolina Foothills
USDA Zone 7a
To find your extension office
http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/index.html

uhoh
 

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
u...
"songbird" wrote in message
...
i suspect i shall have a surplus of
soybeans.

Nice post Bird - sounds like life is good for you. Now, 'bout those
soybeans.... How does one go about growing soybeans please? How deep,
how far apart, what sort of soil conditions, when etc? and can you gorw
soy beans from the stock you'd buy at a Health food shop or does one have
to buy special seed soy beans. TIA.


I had a good crop this year myself. I used the same culture as for bush
beans. They got about 30 inches tall, I didn't use any support, but they
probably could have used some late in the season. I picked about 1/2 in the
green stage, blanched and froze them as edamame(delicious). They will
probably become a yearly crop for me.
Steve

uhoh
 

FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote:

i suspect i shall have a surplus of
soybeans.

Nice post Bird - sounds like life is good for you.

it is good for me.


Now, 'bout those
soybeans.... How does one go about growing soybeans please? How deep, how
far apart, what sort of soil conditions, when etc? and can you gorw soy
beans from the stock you'd buy at a Health food shop or does one have to buy
special seed soy beans. TIA.

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)
and didn't like those for taste as much as the few
lbs i picked up from the health food store that were
labelled organic. i planted those this year and the
difference was noticeable in terms of season, the
ones i planted turned brown several weeks later than
the soybean fields around us.

i space them 4-6 inches apart and rows a foot apart.
1-2 inches deep, they have pretty big leaves and smother
anything growing within a few feet of them so don't plan
on planting anything right next to them, or you can do
what i did with some of them to thin them out (so the
strawberries got some sunshine) i just trimmed off some
of the leaves. i used the trimmings for green manure
and worm farm food. chickens would probably eat them. :)

planted them after all danger of frost was past. in
some cases i planted them even later, because i was
waiting for some flowers to die back.

they will not flower or get pods right away. they
are not like peas or green beans, you don't need to pick
to encourage them to produce. as for pests, Japanese
beetles and the other broad leaf chewers and aphids
can be a problem, but i don't see them here much because
of the ladybeetles and birds.

a little bit of rust or fungal diseases can show up,
but i don't worry at all if the season is advanced
enough. if it is early i'll pull the plant or
infected leaves before it spreads. this year it was
so hot and dry that i didn't even bother looking for
fungal diseases.

if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

harvesting by hand is a bit of work, but i like
being outside picking. stripping the stalks is not
too bad if you wait until the leaves have dried
and fallen off and the pods are mostly dry (i.e. not
green). i can pick three to four paper bags of pods
in several hours. long sleeved shirt required. it's
picky and dusty.

the shelling is also dusty, but there are methods
for doing that where you can avoid the dust too. i
put the dry pods in a pillow case and stomp on them for
a while. sort them from the chaff by dumping them from
box to box in a good breeze or if it is too windy and
rainy i use an inclined plane made out of cardboard and
they roll down it as i squish and crumple the pods to
get the beans out. i wear thin rubber gloves because
the pods will stick to cotton gloves.

i'm sure that beating the pillow case with a
baseball bat would probably work too. :)

the usual 90/10 rule applies, to get the first
90% of the beans takes 10% of the time and effort.
if i had chickens or pigs i'd not even bother with
the last 10% and let them pick through to get
those, but as i have both time and patience i end
up going for almost every bean i can find in the
pods. then later on, i go through and pick out
the beans i don't want to use for soymilk and put
those in the worm food bucket. the chaff gets
recycled back to the gardens one way or another
too. it makes good worm bedding eventually. :)


songbird

uhoh
 

The Cook wrote:
....
The directions on my purchased green soybean seeds say:
"Any good garden soil will grow soybeans. After last frost in
spring, sow about 6 -10 seeds/ft., 1" deep, rows 15 - 30" apart
depending on method of cultivation. Reduce seeding rate somewhat for
more narrow row spacing. Thinning is not necessary."

Sounds pretty much like most beans I have grown.

4 inches minimum between plants. rows a foot
apart is fine. after they get going you will not
be able to walk between the rows anyways, but the
plants support each other so having them too far
apart means they might get blown over.

if you want a pathway you'll need 5ft at
least. plants i grew this year went over a
three foot spacing (strawberries and row of
wax and green beans next to the strawberries,
soybeans in the middle) and still flopped out
over into the surrounding pathway. i've already
decided next year to plant the soybeans in two
bigger patches (instead of the seven small
patches i did this year) because they overgrew
so much of the plants around them. they can
lean on each other. i'll probably double my
productivity of the other bean patches this way.


songbird

uhoh
 

Steve Peek wrote:
....
I had a good crop this year myself. I used the same culture as for bush
beans. They got about 30 inches tall, I didn't use any support, but they
probably could have used some late in the season. I picked about 1/2 in the
green stage, blanched and froze them as edamame(delicious). They will
probably become a yearly crop for me.

green varieties aimed at edamame might be
different from the kinds i've been growing for
soymilk (dry beans) as these plants easily
get 5ft tall for me here. the fields next to
us the plants typically get about 3ft tall.


songbird

uhoh
 

"songbird" wrote in message
...
Steve Peek wrote:
...
I had a good crop this year myself. I used the same culture as for bush
beans. They got about 30 inches tall, I didn't use any support, but they
probably could have used some late in the season. I picked about 1/2 in
the
green stage, blanched and froze them as edamame(delicious). They will
probably become a yearly crop for me.

green varieties aimed at edamame might be
different from the kinds i've been growing for
soymilk (dry beans) as these plants easily
get 5ft tall for me here. the fields next to
us the plants typically get about 3ft tall.


songbird

OK, how about a recipe for the soy milk?

My seed came from Johnny's if anyone is interested.
Steve

uhoh
 

Steve Peek wrote:
....
OK, how about a recipe for the soy milk?

My seed came from Johnny's if anyone is interested.
Steve

very easy,

- rinse beans[1]
- soak beans in water for 24 hours, change the water a few times[2]
- blend beans with some water until they are a fine slurry[3]
- dump slurry into more water to cook[4]
- when the foam goes away it's about done, cook a few more minutes[5]
- strain to remove the pieces from the soymilk[6]
- refrigerate, drink, cook with, etc[7]
- the left over ground up cooked beans are edible and useful[8]


Notes:

[1] don't use funny looking beans (in the non-clown
sense of funny). about 1.5 cups dry beans per
gallon of finished soymilk (adjust up or down
to taste).

[2] sometimes they make a popping noise. it's quite
funny (in the clown sense of funny).

[3] the better blender you have the more you'll get
from the bean and the less you'll have to filter
off at the end. i use over a gallon of water to
get a gallon of soymilk. a really good blender
should lower how much water you'd lose after
filtering. yes, you can make a mess if you blend
too much at once.

[4] there is going to be a lot of foam, do not walk away
as this will boil over, stir once in a while or it
will burn.

[5] about 25-35 minutes.

[6] i use a wire sifter for one pour and then put it
through a fine mesh (gold plated) reusable coffee
filter to get the rest of the pieces out.

[7] excellent ingredient to use along with lite coconut
milk for any red or green Thai curry.

[8] i eat some right away, a little sugar and cinnamon
on top. also good in muffins, cakes, etc. but in
the end, i feed some of it to the worm farm too,
they love it.


google "Making Soy Milk" and the site that has the
title milking the bean or something like that is
the easiest description i've found.

for making tofu it's a few more steps, but not too
hard. the just mentioned site covers this too.

:)


songbird

uhoh
 

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Steve Peek wrote:
...
OK, how about a recipe for the soy milk?

My seed came from Johnny's if anyone is interested.
Steve

very easy,

- rinse beans[1]
- soak beans in water for 24 hours, change the water a few times[2]
- blend beans with some water until they are a fine slurry[3]
- dump slurry into more water to cook[4]
- when the foam goes away it's about done, cook a few more minutes[5]
- strain to remove the pieces from the soymilk[6]
- refrigerate, drink, cook with, etc[7]
- the left over ground up cooked beans are edible and useful[8]


Notes:

[1] don't use funny looking beans (in the non-clown
sense of funny). about 1.5 cups dry beans per
gallon of finished soymilk (adjust up or down
to taste).

[2] sometimes they make a popping noise. it's quite
funny (in the clown sense of funny).

[3] the better blender you have the more you'll get
from the bean and the less you'll have to filter
off at the end. i use over a gallon of water to
get a gallon of soymilk. a really good blender
should lower how much water you'd lose after
filtering. yes, you can make a mess if you blend
too much at once.

[4] there is going to be a lot of foam, do not walk away
as this will boil over, stir once in a while or it
will burn.

[5] about 25-35 minutes.

[6] i use a wire sifter for one pour and then put it
through a fine mesh (gold plated) reusable coffee
filter to get the rest of the pieces out.

[7] excellent ingredient to use along with lite coconut
milk for any red or green Thai curry.

[8] i eat some right away, a little sugar and cinnamon
on top. also good in muffins, cakes, etc. but in
the end, i feed some of it to the worm farm too,
they love it.


google "Making Soy Milk" and the site that has the
title milking the bean or something like that is
the easiest description i've found.

for making tofu it's a few more steps, but not too
hard. the just mentioned site covers this too.

:)


songbird

Enjoy your phytoestrogens. If you don't already have tits, this is the
product for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens#Food_sources

-----
--
- Billy

E pluribus unum
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

uhoh
 

Billy wrote:
....
Enjoy your phytoestrogens. If you don't already have tits, this is the
product for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens#Food_sources

do you even read the cites you quote?

funny. there's no mention of increased man boobs in
the article.

also noted the list of products containing: nuts, legumes,
beer, bourbon, hops (among others).


songbird

uhoh
 

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
Enjoy your phytoestrogens. If you don't already have tits, this is the
product for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens#Food_sources

do you even read the cites you quote?
You seem to understand the explicit meanings of the words, but not the
implicit meaning of the text. Next time I'll try to find something with
pictures for you.
The operative word here is PHYTOESTROGEN.

funny. there's no mention of increased man boobs in
the article.

also noted the list of products containing: nuts, legumes,
beer, bourbon, hops (among others).


songbird


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#Phytoestrogen
Phytoestrogen
Main article: Phytoestrogens
Soybeans contain isoflavones called genistein and daidzein, which are
one source of phytoestrogens in the human diet. Because most naturally
occurring estrogenic substances show weak activity, normal consumption
of foods that contain these phytoestrogens should not provide sufficient
amounts to elicit a physiological response in humans.[102]

Plant lignans associated with high fiber foods such as cereal brans and
beans are the principal precursor to mammalian lignans which have an
ability to bind to human estrogen sites. Soybeans are a significant
source of mammalian lignan precursor secoisolariciresinol containing
13*273*µg/100*g dry weight.[103] Another phytoestrogen in the human diet
with estrogen activity is coumestans, which are found in beans,
split-peas, with the best sources being alfalfa, clover, and soybean
sprouts. Coumestrol, an isoflavone coumarin derivative is the only
coumestan in foods.[104][105]

Soybeans and processed soy foods are among the richest foods in total
phytoestrogens (wet basis per 100g), which are present primarily in the
form of the isoflavones daidzein and genistein.[106]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavende...traindications
Lavender oil has recently been implicated in gynecomastia, the abnormal
development of breasts in young boys. Denver endocrinologist Clifford
Bloch hypothesized the link after three boys presented with enlarged
breasts. Subsequently, Derek Henley and Kenneth Korach of the National
Institute of Environmental Health Sciences in Research Triangle Park,
N.C., discovered in lavender and tea tree oil the presence of compounds
which both suppress male hormones and mimic female hormones.

Because sex hormone levels normally are low prior to puberty, young boys
and girls particularly are sensitive to estrogenic and androgenic
compounds. The discovery of the gynecomastia link in boys has led some
researchers to suspect lavender and tea tree oils, which are present in
various personal care products including shampoos and lotions, may also
contribute to the increased incidence of early breast development in
girls.

Discontinuation of use of these products resulted in rapid reversal of
gynecomastia in Bloch¹s young patients.[14][15]

However, the conclusion that the gynecomastia actually was caused by the
essential oils in the products used by the three boys are currently
being disputed by the Natural Artisan Perfumers Guild and Cropwatch on
the claimed basis of insufficient evidence.[citation needed]
--
- Billy

E pluribus unum
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

uhoh
 

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:43:38 -0500, songbird
wrote:

i suspect i shall have a surplus of
soybeans.

yesterday was the first chance i'd had
to start shelling the harvest.

the first paper bag full came in over
5lbs (i think my whole harvest last year
was about 4.5lbs).

i have another 8 - 15 bags yet to go
(don't know for sure because some are
still in trays drying).

in the meantime, i'm looking out the
window at the first sleet/snow of the season
and very glad i finished leveling two gardens
last week and got the bulbs all replanted.

the second strawberry patch is mulched
and the third strawberry patch is started
with the potted transplants i had standing
by (waiting for the beans to be finished
and harvested). surrounded by garlic as
there is no fence around that area and we
have bunnies and deer that sometimes come
through. however, this year we've had a
hawk hunting and i suspect it has given
the bunnies a challenge.

a dozen bags of shredded leaves to bury
and mix in many gardens with the shredded bark
to keep the worms happy for the winter. not
going to put any of this on the clay out
back as that already has had a good cover.

one last garden to chop and bury (the
peas i planted in August) sometime this
weekend when the weather is supposed to
clear for a bit.

so back to the soybeans today. :) it's
music to my ears hearing them bouncing off
and rolling down the cardboard.


songbird

That's one bean we don't have to spend any time shelling.
Soybeans are a huge cash crop around this area with many thousands of
acres grown each year. We can get more than we need of already shelled
soybeans quite easily.
Many pounds are spilled when the harvested beans are transferred from
the combines to the waiting trucks.
I've never been denied permission to retreive some of the spilled
beans when I've asked.

Ross.
Southern Ontario, Canada.
Ag Canada Zone 5B
43º 17' 26.75" North
80º 13' 29.46" West

uhoh
 

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:
...
Enjoy your phytoestrogens. If you don't already have tits, this is the
product for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens#Food_sources

do you even read the cites you quote?
You seem to understand the explicit meanings of the words, but not the
implicit meaning of the text. Next time I'll try to find something with
pictures for you.
The operative word here is PHYTOESTROGEN.

once again billy, the first paragraph shoots
you down. read it. i'll underline the relevant
part for you.


funny. there's no mention of increased man boobs in
the article.

also noted the list of products containing: nuts, legumes,
beer, bourbon, hops (among others).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#Phytoestrogen
Phytoestrogen
Main article: Phytoestrogens
Soybeans contain isoflavones called genistein and daidzein, which are
one source of phytoestrogens in the human diet. Because most naturally
occurring estrogenic substances show weak activity, normal consumption
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

of foods that contain these phytoestrogens should not provide sufficient
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

amounts to elicit a physiological response in humans.[102]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^

Plant lignans associated with high fiber foods such as cereal brans and
beans are the principal precursor to mammalian lignans which have an
ability to bind to human estrogen sites. Soybeans are a significant
source of mammalian lignan precursor secoisolariciresinol containing
13Â*273Â*µg/100Â*g dry weight.[103] Another phytoestrogen in the human diet
with estrogen activity is coumestans, which are found in beans,
split-peas, with the best sources being alfalfa, clover, and soybean
sprouts. Coumestrol, an isoflavone coumarin derivative is the only
coumestan in foods.[104][105]

Soybeans and processed soy foods are among the richest foods in total
phytoestrogens (wet basis per 100g), which are present primarily in the
form of the isoflavones daidzein and genistein.[106]


songbird

uhoh
 

Ross@home wrote:

....re soybeans...

That's one bean we don't have to spend any time shelling.
Soybeans are a huge cash crop around this area with many thousands of
acres grown each year. We can get more than we need of already shelled
soybeans quite easily.
Many pounds are spilled when the harvested beans are transferred from
the combines to the waiting trucks.
I've never been denied permission to retreive some of the spilled
beans when I've asked.

yes, i could do that too, but i don't want
glyphosate resistant soybeans (which are what
99+% of farmers grow around here). this is
also soybean/corn growing country (a few
farmers grow sugar beets).

the taste is noticeably different compared
to what i grew last year. those were beans
picked off the ground from the field next to
us. won't do that again.


songbird

uhoh
 

Many thanks to all for the responses on how to grow soy beans.

Now, to respond to 'bird:
"songbird" wrote in message

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

and didn't like those for taste as much as the few
lbs i picked up from the health food store that were
labelled organic. i planted those this year and the
difference was noticeable in terms of season, the
ones i planted turned brown several weeks later than
the soybean fields around us.

Was that too late in the season for you or was the alteness a good thing?
Are you going to save some of your current harvest for replanting next year?

i space them 4-6 inches apart and rows a foot apart.
1-2 inches deep, they have pretty big leaves and smother
anything growing within a few feet of them so don't plan
on planting anything right next to them, or you can do
what i did with some of them to thin them out (so the
strawberries got some sunshine) i just trimmed off some
of the leaves. i used the trimmings for green manure
and worm farm food. chickens would probably eat them. :)

:-)) Perhaps our cows would like some rather than giving them to my chooks.
My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come running at the
thought of some animal protein on offer - the cows come for green tidbits if
they are in the paddock close to the veg garden :-))



if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

harvesting by hand is a bit of work, but i like
being outside picking. stripping the stalks is not
too bad if you wait until the leaves have dried
and fallen off and the pods are mostly dry (i.e. not
green). i can pick three to four paper bags of pods
in several hours. long sleeved shirt required. it's
picky and dusty.

the shelling is also dusty, but there are methods
for doing that where you can avoid the dust too. i
put the dry pods in a pillow case and stomp on them for
a while. sort them from the chaff by dumping them from
box to box in a good breeze or if it is too windy and
rainy i use an inclined plane made out of cardboard and
they roll down it as i squish and crumple the pods to
get the beans out. i wear thin rubber gloves because
the pods will stick to cotton gloves.

i'm sure that beating the pillow case with a
baseball bat would probably work too. :)

the usual 90/10 rule applies, to get the first
90% of the beans takes 10% of the time and effort.
if i had chickens or pigs i'd not even bother with
the last 10% and let them pick through to get
those, but as i have both time and patience i end
up going for almost every bean i can find in the
pods. then later on, i go through and pick out
the beans i don't want to use for soymilk and put
those in the worm food bucket. the chaff gets
recycled back to the gardens one way or another
too. it makes good worm bedding eventually. :)

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses to my
email addy for future reference. I might even try some this year if I can
squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on the tight side now.

uhoh
 

FarmI wrote:
Many thanks to all for the responses on how to grow soy beans.

Now, to respond to 'bird:
"songbird" wrote in message

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

That would be the case.


and didn't like those for taste as much as the few
lbs i picked up from the health food store that were
labelled organic. i planted those this year and the
difference was noticeable in terms of season, the
ones i planted turned brown several weeks later than
the soybean fields around us.

Was that too late in the season for you or was the alteness a good
thing? Are you going to save some of your current harvest for
replanting next year?

i space them 4-6 inches apart and rows a foot apart.
1-2 inches deep, they have pretty big leaves and smother
anything growing within a few feet of them so don't plan
on planting anything right next to them, or you can do
what i did with some of them to thin them out (so the
strawberries got some sunshine) i just trimmed off some
of the leaves. i used the trimmings for green manure
and worm farm food. chickens would probably eat them. :)

:-)) Perhaps our cows would like some rather than giving them to my
chooks. My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come
running at the thought of some animal protein on offer -

I lifted up some rubbish while the chooks were watching and I uncovered a
mouse nest. The mice all ran for it, mother disappeared into the grass, the
pink babes disappeared into the chooks in about 10 seconds, I was nearly
knocked down in the rush.


the cows
come for green tidbits if they are in the paddock close to the veg
garden :-))


The horses will come and coach us over the fence when we are in the garden
to make sure we do it right and to ensure we give them some.


if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

harvesting by hand is a bit of work, but i like
being outside picking. stripping the stalks is not
too bad if you wait until the leaves have dried
and fallen off and the pods are mostly dry (i.e. not
green). i can pick three to four paper bags of pods
in several hours. long sleeved shirt required. it's
picky and dusty.

the shelling is also dusty, but there are methods
for doing that where you can avoid the dust too. i
put the dry pods in a pillow case and stomp on them for
a while. sort them from the chaff by dumping them from
box to box in a good breeze or if it is too windy and
rainy i use an inclined plane made out of cardboard and
they roll down it as i squish and crumple the pods to
get the beans out. i wear thin rubber gloves because
the pods will stick to cotton gloves.

i'm sure that beating the pillow case with a
baseball bat would probably work too. :)

the usual 90/10 rule applies, to get the first
90% of the beans takes 10% of the time and effort.
if i had chickens or pigs i'd not even bother with
the last 10% and let them pick through to get
those, but as i have both time and patience i end
up going for almost every bean i can find in the
pods. then later on, i go through and pick out
the beans i don't want to use for soymilk and put
those in the worm food bucket. the chaff gets
recycled back to the gardens one way or another
too. it makes good worm bedding eventually. :)

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses
to my email addy for future reference. I might even try some this
year if I can squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on
the tight side now.

OK aside from "milk" and stock feed what would you do with them on a small
scale? Is it sensible (possible) to make any of the multitude of soy
products domestically that are made commercially?

David

uhoh
 

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:
...
Enjoy your phytoestrogens. If you don't already have tits, this is the
product for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens#Food_sources

do you even read the cites you quote?
You seem to understand the explicit meanings of the words, but not the
implicit meaning of the text. Next time I'll try to find something with
pictures for you.
The operative word here is PHYTOESTROGEN.

once again billy, the first paragraph shoots
you down. read it. i'll underline the relevant
part for you.


funny. there's no mention of increased man boobs in
the article.

also noted the list of products containing: nuts, legumes,
beer, bourbon, hops (among others).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#Phytoestrogen
Phytoestrogen
Main article: Phytoestrogens
Soybeans contain isoflavones called genistein and daidzein, which are
one source of phytoestrogens in the human diet. Because most naturally
occurring estrogenic substances show weak activity, normal consumption
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

of foods that contain these phytoestrogens should not provide sufficient
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

amounts to elicit a physiological response in humans.[102]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^
Well, I started this as amusement, but I see that you want to be a
"winner". So be it. As I understand it, tofu is used as a condiment in
Japan, not the central element of the meal. That said, pray tell me what
normal consumption is.


Plant lignans associated with high fiber foods such as cereal brans and
beans are the principal precursor to mammalian lignans which have an
ability to bind to human estrogen sites. Soybeans are a significant
source of mammalian lignan precursor secoisolariciresinol containing
13–273Â*μg/100Â*g dry weight.[103] Another phytoestrogen in the human diet
with estrogen activity is coumestans, which are found in beans,
split-peas, with the best sources being alfalfa, clover, and soybean
sprouts. Coumestrol, an isoflavone coumarin derivative is the only
coumestan in foods.[104][105]

Soybeans and processed soy foods are among the richest foods in total
phytoestrogens (wet basis per 100g), which are present primarily in the
form of the isoflavones daidzein and genistein.[106]


songbird
--
- Billy

E pluribus unum
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

uhoh
 

FarmI wrote:

Many thanks to all for the responses on how to grow soy beans.

you're welcome! :)


Now, to respond to 'bird:

songbird wrote:

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

yes, of course sold by you know who.


and didn't like those for taste as much as the few
lbs i picked up from the health food store that were
labelled organic. i planted those this year and the
difference was noticeable in terms of season, the
ones i planted turned brown several weeks later than
the soybean fields around us.

Was that too late in the season for you or was the alteness a good thing?

the lateness was not desireable as it means
the gardens are tied up for a few weeks longer.
like i'm just out now working on most of the
large bean patch (where i grew most of the 18
kinds of beans).

it is interesting though that some patches
on the dryer soils finished earlier and those
are what i'm shelling out now. the pods that
are still greenish and drying, i'm not sure
what the quality of the beans will be so i'm
keeping those separate and for last. they
might all end up as worm food. dunno yet.
probably a week or two away from even looking
at them again.


Are you going to save some of your current harvest for replanting next year?

yes, i'll do that, as next year the fields
around us are all going to be corn so the
possibilities of contamination from the soybeans
in the distant fields will be minimal.

if i can find an earlier variety from an
organic source then i'll switch some to
test them for taste. and then if the taste
is ok, i'll switch the whole crop.

when picking i noticed around 5 different
kinds of soybeans (from the shape of the
pods, hairyness, color, etc). if the weather
gets odd it won't hurt to have some variation
in there. i'll probably keep growing at
least one patch of these just to keep the
seeds available.


i space them 4-6 inches apart and rows a foot apart.
1-2 inches deep, they have pretty big leaves and smother
anything growing within a few feet of them so don't plan
on planting anything right next to them, or you can do
what i did with some of them to thin them out (so the
strawberries got some sunshine) i just trimmed off some
of the leaves. i used the trimmings for green manure
and worm farm food. chickens would probably eat them. :)

:-)) Perhaps our cows would like some rather than giving them to my chooks.
My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come running at the
thought of some animal protein on offer - the cows come for green tidbits if
they are in the paddock close to the veg garden :-))

i don't even know if they'd eat soybeans
or not, but the worms eat them eventually
or if they sprout and get chopped down they
work for greens.


if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

after getting so little return at the bank
it's nice to have something that does well.


harvesting by hand is a bit of work, but i like
being outside picking. stripping the stalks is not
too bad if you wait until the leaves have dried
and fallen off and the pods are mostly dry (i.e. not
green). i can pick three to four paper bags of pods
in several hours. long sleeved shirt required. it's
picky and dusty.

the shelling is also dusty, but there are methods
for doing that where you can avoid the dust too. i
put the dry pods in a pillow case and stomp on them for
a while. sort them from the chaff by dumping them from
box to box in a good breeze or if it is too windy and
rainy i use an inclined plane made out of cardboard and
they roll down it as i squish and crumple the pods to
get the beans out. i wear thin rubber gloves because
the pods will stick to cotton gloves.

i'm sure that beating the pillow case with a
baseball bat would probably work too. :)

the usual 90/10 rule applies, to get the first
90% of the beans takes 10% of the time and effort.
if i had chickens or pigs i'd not even bother with
the last 10% and let them pick through to get
those, but as i have both time and patience i end
up going for almost every bean i can find in the
pods. then later on, i go through and pick out
the beans i don't want to use for soymilk and put
those in the worm food bucket. the chaff gets
recycled back to the gardens one way or another
too. it makes good worm bedding eventually. :)

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses to my
email addy for future reference. I might even try some this year if I can
squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on the tight side now.

questions always ok, this e-mail address is
good.


songbird

uhoh
 

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

That would be the case.

I certainly suspected that would be the case too given that tests show
cotnamination of so many supposedly no-GMO soybeans.
chooks. My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come
running at the thought of some animal protein on offer -

I lifted up some rubbish while the chooks were watching and I uncovered a
mouse nest. The mice all ran for it, mother disappeared into the grass,
the pink babes disappeared into the chooks in about 10 seconds, I was
nearly knocked down in the rush.

Yup. Love their protein do chooks and chooklets. I feed mine curl grubs as
I find them when I seive the compost. I call the girls and they come as
fast as they can go rolling from isde to side and looking like rollicking
sailors who are wearing fluffy drawers

the cows
come for green tidbits if they are in the paddock close to the veg
garden :-))


The horses will come and coach us over the fence when we are in the garden
to make sure we do it right and to ensure we give them some.

Stickybeaks are horses and cows.

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses
to my email addy for future reference. I might even try some this
year if I can squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on
the tight side now.

OK aside from "milk" and stock feed what would you do with them on a small
scale? Is it sensible (possible) to make any of the multitude of soy
products domestically that are made commercially?

Tofu. It's easy to make and the process is not dissimilar to making soft
white cheese.

Years ago, I read on an ng how a poster made hers. the instructions made it
sound easy and I ahd all the ingredients so set to with a will. As/after I
made it, I realised that she was full of shit and had never made it at all
and had merely posted instructions she'd found online. While I was making
it, I found that the containers she mentioned werent' big enough to hold
the amount of liquid she said they would so did a trip to the shop to buy
new plastic buckets (plural). Then I found the coagulant she mentioned (and
don't ask me now what it was) didn't work as she said it should so after
thinking about it I decided that lemon juice should work but again needed to
go to the shop for more lemons. It was rather fraught at the time, but it
worked out fine in the end.

uhoh
 

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:
Many thanks to all for the responses on how to grow soy beans.

Now, to respond to 'bird:
"songbird" wrote in message

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

That would be the case.


and didn't like those for taste as much as the few
lbs i picked up from the health food store that were
labelled organic. i planted those this year and the
difference was noticeable in terms of season, the
ones i planted turned brown several weeks later than
the soybean fields around us.

Was that too late in the season for you or was the alteness a good
thing? Are you going to save some of your current harvest for
replanting next year?

i space them 4-6 inches apart and rows a foot apart.
1-2 inches deep, they have pretty big leaves and smother
anything growing within a few feet of them so don't plan
on planting anything right next to them, or you can do
what i did with some of them to thin them out (so the
strawberries got some sunshine) i just trimmed off some
of the leaves. i used the trimmings for green manure
and worm farm food. chickens would probably eat them. :)

:-)) Perhaps our cows would like some rather than giving them to my
chooks. My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come
running at the thought of some animal protein on offer -

I lifted up some rubbish while the chooks were watching and I uncovered a
mouse nest. The mice all ran for it, mother disappeared into the grass,
the pink babes disappeared into the chooks in about 10 seconds, I was
nearly knocked down in the rush.


the cows
come for green tidbits if they are in the paddock close to the veg
garden :-))


The horses will come and coach us over the fence when we are in the garden
to make sure we do it right and to ensure we give them some.


if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

harvesting by hand is a bit of work, but i like
being outside picking. stripping the stalks is not
too bad if you wait until the leaves have dried
and fallen off and the pods are mostly dry (i.e. not
green). i can pick three to four paper bags of pods
in several hours. long sleeved shirt required. it's
picky and dusty.

the shelling is also dusty, but there are methods
for doing that where you can avoid the dust too. i
put the dry pods in a pillow case and stomp on them for
a while. sort them from the chaff by dumping them from
box to box in a good breeze or if it is too windy and
rainy i use an inclined plane made out of cardboard and
they roll down it as i squish and crumple the pods to
get the beans out. i wear thin rubber gloves because
the pods will stick to cotton gloves.

i'm sure that beating the pillow case with a
baseball bat would probably work too. :)

the usual 90/10 rule applies, to get the first
90% of the beans takes 10% of the time and effort.
if i had chickens or pigs i'd not even bother with
the last 10% and let them pick through to get
those, but as i have both time and patience i end
up going for almost every bean i can find in the
pods. then later on, i go through and pick out
the beans i don't want to use for soymilk and put
those in the worm food bucket. the chaff gets
recycled back to the gardens one way or another
too. it makes good worm bedding eventually. :)

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses
to my email addy for future reference. I might even try some this
year if I can squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on
the tight side now.

OK aside from "milk" and stock feed what would you do with them on a small
scale? Is it sensible (possible) to make any of the multitude of soy
products domestically that are made commercially?

David


We use them just as we would use lima beans. We have a hard time growing
limas due to the clay soil, but the soy beans do well here and are a good
substitute. The green edamame are very like "boiled peanuts".

uhoh
 

Billy wrote:
....
Well, I started this as amusement, but I see that you want to be a
"winner". So be it. As I understand it, tofu is used as a condiment in
Japan, not the central element of the meal. That said, pray tell me what
normal consumption is.

i'm not caring about "winning" i just hate
to see casual unfounded remarks that look
like scare mongering put in their place.

normal consumption, a glass of soymilk a day,
a few ounces of tofu, some soy sauce, a few
teaspoons of fermented soy beans in a black bean
sauce, a soy burger, all probably well within
normal.

i'd say that more than 2lbs of soy products a
day would be getting into the realm of abnormal.
more than a lb a day borderline and less than
that quite ok for most people.

the only qualification i see at this time in
the literature is for pregnant or soon to be
pregnant women.

Japan is not the only place that eats soy
products. Thai, Indonesian, Indian, Chinese,
etc. all use soy in various ways.


songbird

uhoh
 

FarmI wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
....
OK aside from "milk" and stock feed what would you do with them on a small
scale? Is it sensible (possible) to make any of the multitude of soy
products domestically that are made commercially?

aside from tofu, you can roast them for a snack
item, you can ferment them and make black bean
sauce, soy sauce or add them to other various fish
sauces or hot sauces, they can be cooked just like
any other dried bean and used in chili or soups or
stews. and as Steve mentioned the green soft beans
(before they dry and get hard) are edible, but many
people grow specific varieties of those as they
have a less green/grassy flavor.


Tofu. It's easy to make and the process is not dissimilar to making soft
white cheese.

yes, and if you've just made soy milk then the
steps for making tofu follow on (as then it's already
heated up). get it down to the right temperature,
add coagulant, strain out curds and press.


Years ago, I read on an ng how a poster made hers. the instructions made it
sound easy and I ahd all the ingredients so set to with a will. As/after I
made it, I realised that she was full of shit and had never made it at all
and had merely posted instructions she'd found online.

ooh!


While I was making
it, I found that the containers she mentioned werent' big enough to hold
the amount of liquid she said they would so did a trip to the shop to buy
new plastic buckets (plural). Then I found the coagulant she mentioned (and
don't ask me now what it was) didn't work as she said it should so after
thinking about it I decided that lemon juice should work but again needed to
go to the shop for more lemons. It was rather fraught at the time, but it
worked out fine in the end.

the site i mentioned in the the other post on
making soy milk continued on making tofu and i
tried it with lemon juice, but decided the taste
and texture weren't for me. i like other tofu
at times, but normally don't eat it. then i
tried tempeh and didn't much like that either.
so stopping at soymilk was good enough for me
as i do like that.


songbird

uhoh
 

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
Well, I started this as amusement, but I see that you want to be a
"winner". So be it. As I understand it, tofu is used as a condiment in
Japan, not the central element of the meal. That said, pray tell me what
normal consumption is.

i'm not caring about "winning" i just hate
to see casual unfounded remarks that look
like scare mongering put in their place.
Observing that exposure to phytoestrogens can facilitate the growth of
breasts is fear mongering? Breasts are to be feared?

normal consumption, a glass of soymilk a day,
a few ounces of tofu, some soy sauce, a few
teaspoons of fermented soy beans in a black bean
sauce, a soy burger, all probably well within
normal.

i'd say that more than 2lbs of soy products a
day would be getting into the realm of abnormal.
more than a lb a day borderline and less than
that quite ok for most people.
You'd say!? What is the support for what you say?
Facts aren't something that you pull out of your backside.

once again billy, the first paragraph shoots
you down.
Once again!? As charming as you are, bird, you are far too incompetent
to be patronizing, as the following illustrates.
read it. i'll underline the relevant
part for you.

normal consumption
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of foods that contain these phytoestrogens should not provide sufficient
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
amounts to elicit a physiological response in humans.[102]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^

What does that sentence say, bird? First, normal consumption isn't
quantified. Then it says "should not", not "will not". So what the
sentence says is that most people probably won't have a physiological
response to phytoestrogens, because they don't consume soybeans beyond
some undefined "healthy limit". It doesn't say eat as much
phytoestrogens as you like, because there is no adverse physiological
threat from them. At some point they become a problem, but that point is
unknown.

the only qualification i see at this time in
the literature is for pregnant or soon to be
pregnant women.

Japan is not the only place that eats soy
products. Thai, Indonesian, Indian, Chinese,
etc. all use soy in various ways.

Golllly, do tell. Who'd have thunk?

(This is a bit dated ['02], but still makes the point.)
Some studies have reported no link and others have reported a decrease
in the risk of breast cancer among women eating soy compared to women
who did not eat soy; no studies have reliably demonstrated an increase
in the risk of breast cancer among women eating soy. In addition to the
conflicting results, there are four problems with these studies. First,
the number of studies is small, only ten studies have examined soy in
the diet and breast cancer risk. Second, most of the studies examined
small numbers of women, only four of the studies included more than 200
patients. Third, all but two of the studies were limited to women from
Asia. The effect of soy in Asian women may not best reflect much of the
population of Western countries like the US. Women in Asia differ in
important ways. Many of them have eaten soy products all their lives and
their usual diets contain large amounts of soy products. Also, Asian
women have low rates of breast cancer compared to Western women, which
may be related to other factors besides soy in their diet. Fourth, most
of these studies are limited by their focus on the general diet of women
rather than soy products in detail. More carefully controlled studies
are needed that examine the effect of soy products on breast cancer risk
in women from cultures outside of Asia and more indepth studies are
needed of Asian women.

Then soy isn't the only phytoestrogen game in town:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavende...traindications
Lavender oil has recently been implicated in gynecomastia, the abnormal
development of breasts in young boys.

Then there is the collateral damage from soybeans.
http://www.ajcn.org/content/93/5/950.abstract

€ © 2011 American Society for Nutrition
Changes in consumption of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids in the United
States during the 20th century

Background: The consumption of omega-3 (n*3) and omega-6 (n*6) essential
fatty acids in Western diets is thought to have changed markedly during
the 20th century.

Results: The estimated per capita consumption of soybean oil increased
1000-fold from 1909 to 1999. The availability of linoleic acid
(LA)[omega-6] increased from 2.79% to 7.21% of energy (P 0.000001),
whereas the availability of ?-linolenic acid (ALA) [omega-3] increased
from 0.39% to 0.72% of energy . . .

The ratio of LA to ALA increased from 6.4 in 1909 to 10.0 in 1999.

Predicted net effects of these dietary changes included declines in
tissue n--3 highly unsaturated fatty acid status . . . and declines in
the estimated omega-3 index.

You do know about the importance of omega-6/omega-3, don't you, bird?


songbird

I'd continue your instruction, but I have a football game to watch.
--

Billy

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953

uhoh
 

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Well, I started this as amusement, but I see that you want to be a
"winner". So be it. As I understand it, tofu is used as a condiment in
Japan, not the central element of the meal. That said, pray tell me what
normal consumption is.

i'm not caring about "winning" i just hate
to see casual unfounded remarks that look
like scare mongering put in their place.

You hate for unfounded remarks that look
like scare mongering to be put in their place, bird?

Q.E.D.
--
- Billy

E pluribus unum
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

uhoh
 

Bill Rose wrote:
....
Observing that exposure to phytoestrogens can facilitate the growth of
breasts is fear mongering? Breasts are to be feared?

man boobs billy. have you lost your gourd again?

i'll ignore the rest of this since fatty acid
health isn't the topic i started with, but yes i
am aware of the health benefits of various fats.


songbird

uhoh
 

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
songbird wrote:


normal consumption
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of foods that contain these phytoestrogens should not provide sufficient
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
amounts to elicit a physiological response in humans.[102]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^

What does that sentence say, bird? First, normal consumption isn't
quantified.

And it's also been recorded in at least one case that I recall that a person
who drinks too much water can die from water.

If you don't want to eat soy products then there is no compulsion for you to
do so despite what Bird chooses to do.

Then it says "should not", not "will not". So what the
sentence says is that most people probably won't have a physiological
response to phytoestrogens, because they don't consume soybeans beyond
some undefined "healthy limit". It doesn't say eat as much
phytoestrogens as you like, because there is no adverse physiological
threat from them. At some point they become a problem, but that point is
unknown.

And the same with drinking water.

Life is just one big risk. Perhaps we should all make a pact to slit our
wrists right now before something else comes along that might give us a rash
or kill us slowly.

uhoh
 

"songbird" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:

if i can find an earlier variety from an
organic source then i'll switch some to
test them for taste. and then if the taste
is ok, i'll switch the whole crop.

There's a Seed Savers group in the US so it might be worth trying them to
see if they ahve any other varieties.


if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

after getting so little return at the bank
it's nice to have something that does well.

LOL. I dont' know what the interest rate is on my money. So long as it's
not negative and i'm losing money, I can live with a low return as I dont'
touch capital anyway.


questions always ok, this e-mail address is
good.

Thank you for the kind offer.

uhoh
 

FarmI wrote:
....
Life is just one big risk. Perhaps we should all make a pact to slit our
wrists right now before something else comes along that might give us a rash
or kill us slowly.

uhg! sorry, i'm not that kind of
follower or believer. i know you mean
it as sarcasm, etc., but wow...

i think instead i'll just go back to
SAVING THE FOREST LEAF LITTER
and let it rest at that.

hope the game was good Billy. :)

peace,


songbird

uhoh
 

FarmI wrote:
"songbird" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:

if i can find an earlier variety from an
organic source then i'll switch some to
test them for taste. and then if the taste
is ok, i'll switch the whole crop.

There's a Seed Savers group in the US so it might be worth trying them to
see if they ahve any other varieties.

good idea. i'll give them a look.


if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

after getting so little return at the bank
it's nice to have something that does well.

LOL. I dont' know what the interest rate is on my money. So long as it's
not negative and i'm losing money, I can live with a low return as I dont'
touch capital anyway.

i can live with it too as i know it
won't be going like this forever.

growing dry beans means i can be a
true bean counter when the currencies of
the world all go *boom!* at the same
time. :)


questions always ok, this e-mail address is
good.

Thank you for the kind offer.

you're welcome,


songbird

uhoh
 

"songbird" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:
...
Life is just one big risk. Perhaps we should all make a pact to slit our
wrists right now before something else comes along that might give us a
rash
or kill us slowly.

uhg! sorry, i'm not that kind of
follower or believer. i know you mean
it as sarcasm, etc., but wow...

Nah. It was not meant as sarcasm, just a faint touch of whimsy.