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#1
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cucumbers, onions, etc.
In article ,
George Shirley wrote: I made kraut last fall, first time in many years that the fermenting didn't go bad and grow hair. Came out pretty good. Used a sterilized plastic bucket, bottled water, canning salt. .... I think that sterilizing everything first and using non-iodized salt, keeping a close eye on the bucket (which had a cloth over it) and dipping out anything that looked odd did the job. Keeping it clean and effectively air-locked seems to be the best route and traditional in many places where it's a staple, with fancy airlock crocks as opposed to the open-top cloth over arrangement that somehow became USA standard. I had just come off of processing 50 pounds of plums (after 20 years of "perhaps a plum, perhaps 2", the trees went big this year) so I was refreshed on the "a properly tightened (not over-tightened) canning jar lid vents gas pressure but does not let air back in" from all the canning, and carefully ignored all the bad advice to "burp" canning jar kraut (or the other "advice," mostly obviously paid, for buying airlock tops for canning jars). It's bubbled away without blowing up just as the plums in the canner did. Since it's a huge apple year as well, I also tried the "add 25% apples" step that is evidently traditional in some areas on several of the jars. The only one with grot on it is a literal science experiment where the experimental variation was salt level, and the one at a dubiously high salt level has some white mold on top. That was also done with red cabbage, and you can see it getting pinker as the lactic acid forms, more swiftly in the one at 2% salt, slowly at 4% salt, and hardly at all at 8% salt where the mold is showing up. Those also involved student help in the experimental setup and sanitation might not be so good as a result. If your cabbage is not dried out, you should not need any water at all - shredded cabbage mixed with 2% salt (by weight of cabbage or cabbage and other stuff - apples, carrots, etc.) should develop enough brine to cover (when it's packed down and weighted) in about 30 minutes. Some claimed that was more reliable with "farmers market" than "store-bought" due to store-bought being held for longer, but the red used for the science experiment was store-bought and made plenty of brine despite that. If going with a larger batch in a plastic bucket I would use a lid and an airlock; from the home-brew store, not from overpriced pickle suppliers... ;-) But I need to wait a couple more weeks to see how I actually like the first small batch before I contemplate going there. I did use non-iodized salt. The advice for "airlock-type" kraut I'm more-or-less following went something like: Sterilize the crock (jar, whatever) and don't touch it for 2 months (at 60-70F). The lack of air (displaced by CO2 early in the process) is supposed to keep the problem of things growing on the surface from occurring. With the jars, of course, I can look - and other than the one, which probably did not produce so much CO2, or not at a fast rate, since it is at a salt level the lactobacillus don't consider friendly, there isn't any yuck going on there. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away. |
#2
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cucumbers, onions, etc.
On 10/8/2015 9:57 AM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article , George Shirley wrote: I made kraut last fall, first time in many years that the fermenting didn't go bad and grow hair. Came out pretty good. Used a sterilized plastic bucket, bottled water, canning salt. ... I think that sterilizing everything first and using non-iodized salt, keeping a close eye on the bucket (which had a cloth over it) and dipping out anything that looked odd did the job. Keeping it clean and effectively air-locked seems to be the best route and traditional in many places where it's a staple, with fancy airlock crocks as opposed to the open-top cloth over arrangement that somehow became USA standard. I had just come off of processing 50 pounds of plums (after 20 years of "perhaps a plum, perhaps 2", the trees went big this year) so I was refreshed on the "a properly tightened (not over-tightened) canning jar lid vents gas pressure but does not let air back in" from all the canning, and carefully ignored all the bad advice to "burp" canning jar kraut (or the other "advice," mostly obviously paid, for buying airlock tops for canning jars). It's bubbled away without blowing up just as the plums in the canner did. Since it's a huge apple year as well, I also tried the "add 25% apples" step that is evidently traditional in some areas on several of the jars. The only one with grot on it is a literal science experiment where the experimental variation was salt level, and the one at a dubiously high salt level has some white mold on top. That was also done with red cabbage, and you can see it getting pinker as the lactic acid forms, more swiftly in the one at 2% salt, slowly at 4% salt, and hardly at all at 8% salt where the mold is showing up. Those also involved student help in the experimental setup and sanitation might not be so good as a result. If your cabbage is not dried out, you should not need any water at all - shredded cabbage mixed with 2% salt (by weight of cabbage or cabbage and other stuff - apples, carrots, etc.) should develop enough brine to cover (when it's packed down and weighted) in about 30 minutes. Some claimed that was more reliable with "farmers market" than "store-bought" due to store-bought being held for longer, but the red used for the science experiment was store-bought and made plenty of brine despite that. If going with a larger batch in a plastic bucket I would use a lid and an airlock; from the home-brew store, not from overpriced pickle suppliers... ;-) But I need to wait a couple more weeks to see how I actually like the first small batch before I contemplate going there. I did use non-iodized salt. The advice for "airlock-type" kraut I'm more-or-less following went something like: Sterilize the crock (jar, whatever) and don't touch it for 2 months (at 60-70F). The lack of air (displaced by CO2 early in the process) is supposed to keep the problem of things growing on the surface from occurring. With the jars, of course, I can look - and other than the one, which probably did not produce so much CO2, or not at a fast rate, since it is at a salt level the lactobacillus don't consider friendly, there isn't any yuck going on there. I did the kraut with a tight fitting sanitized dinner plate upside down on the top of the kraut. Watched the process daily and skimmed a little scum off as it worked. The cabbage was home grown and very "juicy" so no water was added. If water had been needed I was prepared to go with sterilized, ie. boiled, water rather than tap water, which here is somewhat iffy as to sterility. Had thought about buying the stuff you recommend but we just don't eat enough kraut to justify the purchase. Probably won't make any more kraut for a few years. Grands and great grands won't even tough kraut so we don't make it often. Every time I think fall is actually here Ma Nature messes things up. Got up to 71F this morning and here it is 1300 CST and the repeating thermometer says it is over 90F out there. Bah! Humbug! Doe season is open though. |
#3
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cucumbers, onions, etc.
George Shirley wrote:
Every time I think fall is actually here Ma Nature messes things up. Got up to 71F this morning and here it is 1300 CST and the repeating thermometer says it is over 90F out there. Bah! Humbug! Doe season is open though. She's doing it here too ... private land antlerless only opens here on Saturday . -- Snag |
#4
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cucumbers, onions, etc.
George Shirley wrote:
.... Every time I think fall is actually here Ma Nature messes things up. Got up to 71F this morning and here it is 1300 CST and the repeating thermometer says it is over 90F out there. Bah! Humbug! Doe season is open though. i don't look at the forecast for one day and things change a lot. now we have some nights that will be down in the 30sF coming up so i'll have to get those peppers picked before then. a few days ago must have been the early season for deer hunting starting because it was like a war zone with all the guns going off in the morning. been quiet since then so perhaps they got 'em all (joke! -- i know they haven't!)... songbird |
#5
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cucumbers, onions, etc.
On 10/9/2015 8:44 AM, Derald wrote:
George Shirley wrote: Every time I think fall is actually here Ma Nature messes things up. Got up to 71F this morning and here it is 1300 CST and the repeating thermometer says it is over 90F out there. Bah! Humbug! Doe season is open though. Same here. Teevee weather geeks are going on about a cold front and highs in low-mid 80's for the weekend. Wow: Autumn weather.... Nights have been in mid-low 70's for a couple of weeks, though; a sign of things to come AWA a big cue to get some more stuff planted for the fall. Plus, there's no way that I have enough firewood on hand. I find actually _buying_ the stuff embarassing but it wouldn't be the first time and I find handing a little year-end bonus money to a local tree guy preferable to giving it to the Withlacoochee 'Lectric Co-op just for a warm butt. Lots of politicians out there screaming about "climate change." The climate changes here about four times a year. Last fall we had a couple of hail storms, not new to the area but everyone immediately screamed "climate change, climate change." I would just appreciate a little cool weather to cut back on the AC bill for a few months. Wife won't let me move us back to the boonies as we are close to all the kids, grands and great grands. There is so much traffic noise here that it goes on 24-7. I miss rural Louisiana and the peace, not to mention better food in the restaurants. We're still getting tomatoes, sweet chiles, and cucumbers. I think the eggplant has finally given up the ghost. Fall carrots and chard are up as are the beets. Just a couple of cabbage plants out there and not going to be much else. Both freezers and the canning pantry are full, no need to grow a lot of stuff this fall. Now if I can convince my lovely wife that we don't really need to plant more. Vote coming up here in Texas next month to lower taxes on senior citizens. I will vote as often as I can get by with. G Years ago Texas exempted folks 65 and older from school taxes, we left for many years and come back to 65 and older get taxed just like everyone else. To many people having to many kids probably. |
#6
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cucumbers, onions, etc.
On 10/9/2015 3:18 PM, Derald wrote:
George Shirley wrote: Lots of politicians out there screaming about "climate change." The climate changes here about four times a year. Last fall we had a couple of hail storms, not new to the area but everyone immediately screamed "climate change, climate change." I would just appreciate a little cool weather to cut back on the AC bill for a few months. I would remind you: "There's no business like show business...." Wife won't let me move us back to the boonies as we are close to all the kids, grands and great grands. There is so much traffic noise here that it goes on 24-7. I miss rural Louisiana and the peace, not to mention better food in the restaurants. So, throw out the teevee, pool your resources and take them all with you. I know, that's a terribly '60's notion, isn't it? I was a growed up ex-sailor in the sixties, with kids, a good job, and ten acres to look after. I expected my kids to grow up and move away but didn't expect that when I was old I would have to move close to them. We're still getting tomatoes, sweet chiles, and cucumbers. I think the eggplant has finally given up the ghost. Fall carrots and chard are up as are the beets. Just a couple of cabbage plants out there and not going to be much else. Both freezers and the canning pantry are full, no need to grow a lot of stuff this fall. Now if I can convince my lovely wife that we don't really need to plant more. I didn't raise tomatoes or eggplant in 2015, never grow chard or beets, and only rarely cabbage. Too early for carrots: Not enough consistently cool temperatures yet. Sure enough warm weather stuff is finishing up and I'm making the transition. I can plant generic "greens" and English peas now because nights are temperate and the weather'll be cooler by the time they're due to produce. Time, too—a little late, actually—to plant onions to be transplanted in December or January. Be planting an "early" broccoli awa carrots RSN, though. We don't can anything or dehydrate much but do keep a stash of ingredients along with prepared dishes in the freezer. Not exactly prepared for an apocalypse, though. My wife and I enjoy fresh in-season garden truck so I try to keep something coming in year-'round. We have so much frozen and canned stuff we really don't need another BIG fall garden. Dear wife is a middle child of five and is always afraid the big and little siblings will get all the food. G I would just as soon leave the winter garden alone and build up the mix in the raised beds for spring/summer. Ain't gonna happen here. I just ignore it, go to the library, do the grocery shopping, go fishing once in awhile, maybe get a little deer and hog hunting in this fall and winter. I can live with it, just don't like all the noise and traffic. Note: I only eat pickled beets, do eat chard as it is my favorite green, will eat some broccoli but not a whole plant at once. I like English peas and about any kind of pea or bean, a little cabbage is good, a lot is not. We grew so darned much eggplant this year the neighbors were locking their doors and turning off the lights if they saw us coming with a bag. |
#7
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cucumbers, onions, etc.
On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 10:57:15 AM UTC-4, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article , George Shirley wrote: I made kraut last fall, first time in many years that the fermenting didn't go bad and grow hair. Came out pretty good. Used a sterilized plastic bucket, bottled water, canning salt. ... I think that sterilizing everything first and using non-iodized salt, keeping a close eye on the bucket (which had a cloth over it) and dipping out anything that looked odd did the job. Keeping it clean and effectively air-locked seems to be the best route and traditional in many places where it's a staple, with fancy airlock crocks as opposed to the open-top cloth over arrangement that somehow became USA standard. I had just come off of processing 50 pounds of plums (after 20 years of "perhaps a plum, perhaps 2", the trees went big this year) so I was refreshed on the "a properly tightened (not over-tightened) canning jar lid vents gas pressure but does not let air back in" from all the canning, and carefully ignored all the bad advice to "burp" canning jar kraut (or the other "advice," mostly obviously paid, for buying airlock tops for canning jars). It's bubbled away without blowing up just as the plums in the canner did. Since it's a huge apple year as well, I also tried the "add 25% apples" step that is evidently traditional in some areas on several of the jars. The only one with grot on it is a literal science experiment where the experimental variation was salt level, and the one at a dubiously high salt level has some white mold on top. That was also done with red cabbage, and you can see it getting pinker as the lactic acid forms, more swiftly in the one at 2% salt, slowly at 4% salt, and hardly at all at 8% salt where the mold is showing up. Those also involved student help in the experimental setup and sanitation might not be so good as a result. If your cabbage is not dried out, you should not need any water at all - shredded cabbage mixed with 2% salt (by weight of cabbage or cabbage and other stuff - apples, carrots, etc.) should develop enough brine to cover (when it's packed down and weighted) in about 30 minutes. Some claimed that was more reliable with "farmers market" than "store-bought" due to store-bought being held for longer, but the red used for the science experiment was store-bought and made plenty of brine despite that. If going with a larger batch in a plastic bucket I would use a lid and an airlock; from the home-brew store, not from overpriced pickle suppliers... ;-) But I need to wait a couple more weeks to see how I actually like the first small batch before I contemplate going there. I did use non-iodized salt. The advice for "airlock-type" kraut I'm more-or-less following went something like: Sterilize the crock (jar, whatever) and don't touch it for 2 months (at 60-70F). The lack of air (displaced by CO2 early in the process) is supposed to keep the problem of things growing on the surface from occurring. With the jars, of course, I can look - and other than the one, which probably did not produce so much CO2, or not at a fast rate, since it is at a salt level the lactobacillus don't consider friendly, there isn't any yuck going on there. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away. For an airlock, I use a plastic bag filled with water and tied. It goes inside another plastic bag just in case of leaks. The bag is big enough to cover the surface of the fermenting kraut and press around the edge of the crock to keep water out. It's flexible enough to let the fermentation gas escape and the weight of the water keeps the kraut pressed below the surface of the fluid in the crock so it doesn't go bad. Paul |
#8
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cucumbers, onions, etc.
On 10/9/2015 3:24 PM, Pavel314 wrote:
On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 10:57:15 AM UTC-4, Ecnerwal wrote: In article , George Shirley wrote: I made kraut last fall, first time in many years that the fermenting didn't go bad and grow hair. Came out pretty good. Used a sterilized plastic bucket, bottled water, canning salt. ... I think that sterilizing everything first and using non-iodized salt, keeping a close eye on the bucket (which had a cloth over it) and dipping out anything that looked odd did the job. Keeping it clean and effectively air-locked seems to be the best route and traditional in many places where it's a staple, with fancy airlock crocks as opposed to the open-top cloth over arrangement that somehow became USA standard. I had just come off of processing 50 pounds of plums (after 20 years of "perhaps a plum, perhaps 2", the trees went big this year) so I was refreshed on the "a properly tightened (not over-tightened) canning jar lid vents gas pressure but does not let air back in" from all the canning, and carefully ignored all the bad advice to "burp" canning jar kraut (or the other "advice," mostly obviously paid, for buying airlock tops for canning jars). It's bubbled away without blowing up just as the plums in the canner did. Since it's a huge apple year as well, I also tried the "add 25% apples" step that is evidently traditional in some areas on several of the jars. The only one with grot on it is a literal science experiment where the experimental variation was salt level, and the one at a dubiously high salt level has some white mold on top. That was also done with red cabbage, and you can see it getting pinker as the lactic acid forms, more swiftly in the one at 2% salt, slowly at 4% salt, and hardly at all at 8% salt where the mold is showing up. Those also involved student help in the experimental setup and sanitation might not be so good as a result. If your cabbage is not dried out, you should not need any water at all - shredded cabbage mixed with 2% salt (by weight of cabbage or cabbage and other stuff - apples, carrots, etc.) should develop enough brine to cover (when it's packed down and weighted) in about 30 minutes. Some claimed that was more reliable with "farmers market" than "store-bought" due to store-bought being held for longer, but the red used for the science experiment was store-bought and made plenty of brine despite that. If going with a larger batch in a plastic bucket I would use a lid and an airlock; from the home-brew store, not from overpriced pickle suppliers... ;-) But I need to wait a couple more weeks to see how I actually like the first small batch before I contemplate going there. I did use non-iodized salt. The advice for "airlock-type" kraut I'm more-or-less following went something like: Sterilize the crock (jar, whatever) and don't touch it for 2 months (at 60-70F). The lack of air (displaced by CO2 early in the process) is supposed to keep the problem of things growing on the surface from occurring. With the jars, of course, I can look - and other than the one, which probably did not produce so much CO2, or not at a fast rate, since it is at a salt level the lactobacillus don't consider friendly, there isn't any yuck going on there. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away. For an airlock, I use a plastic bag filled with water and tied. It goes inside another plastic bag just in case of leaks. The bag is big enough to cover the surface of the fermenting kraut and press around the edge of the crock to keep water out. It's flexible enough to let the fermentation gas escape and the weight of the water keeps the kraut pressed below the surface of the fluid in the crock so it doesn't go bad. Paul That's pretty much what I did Paul, except the zip loc bag sat on top of an inverted plate so I could see if any muck formed up around the edge. Worked fine so will do it again sometime. |
#9
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cucumbers, onions, etc.
On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 6:13:31 PM UTC-4, George Shirley wrote:
On 10/9/2015 3:24 PM, Pavel314 wrote: On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 10:57:15 AM UTC-4, Ecnerwal wrote: In article , George Shirley wrote: I made kraut last fall, first time in many years that the fermenting didn't go bad and grow hair. Came out pretty good. Used a sterilized plastic bucket, bottled water, canning salt. ... I think that sterilizing everything first and using non-iodized salt, keeping a close eye on the bucket (which had a cloth over it) and dipping out anything that looked odd did the job. Keeping it clean and effectively air-locked seems to be the best route and traditional in many places where it's a staple, with fancy airlock crocks as opposed to the open-top cloth over arrangement that somehow became USA standard. I had just come off of processing 50 pounds of plums (after 20 years of "perhaps a plum, perhaps 2", the trees went big this year) so I was refreshed on the "a properly tightened (not over-tightened) canning jar lid vents gas pressure but does not let air back in" from all the canning, and carefully ignored all the bad advice to "burp" canning jar kraut (or the other "advice," mostly obviously paid, for buying airlock tops for canning jars). It's bubbled away without blowing up just as the plums in the canner did. Since it's a huge apple year as well, I also tried the "add 25% apples" step that is evidently traditional in some areas on several of the jars. The only one with grot on it is a literal science experiment where the experimental variation was salt level, and the one at a dubiously high salt level has some white mold on top. That was also done with red cabbage, and you can see it getting pinker as the lactic acid forms, more swiftly in the one at 2% salt, slowly at 4% salt, and hardly at all at 8% salt where the mold is showing up. Those also involved student help in the experimental setup and sanitation might not be so good as a result. If your cabbage is not dried out, you should not need any water at all - shredded cabbage mixed with 2% salt (by weight of cabbage or cabbage and other stuff - apples, carrots, etc.) should develop enough brine to cover (when it's packed down and weighted) in about 30 minutes. Some claimed that was more reliable with "farmers market" than "store-bought" due to store-bought being held for longer, but the red used for the science experiment was store-bought and made plenty of brine despite that. If going with a larger batch in a plastic bucket I would use a lid and an airlock; from the home-brew store, not from overpriced pickle suppliers... ;-) But I need to wait a couple more weeks to see how I actually like the first small batch before I contemplate going there. I did use non-iodized salt. The advice for "airlock-type" kraut I'm more-or-less following went something like: Sterilize the crock (jar, whatever) and don't touch it for 2 months (at 60-70F). The lack of air (displaced by CO2 early in the process) is supposed to keep the problem of things growing on the surface from occurring. With the jars, of course, I can look - and other than the one, which probably did not produce so much CO2, or not at a fast rate, since it is at a salt level the lactobacillus don't consider friendly, there isn't any yuck going on there. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away. For an airlock, I use a plastic bag filled with water and tied. It goes inside another plastic bag just in case of leaks. The bag is big enough to cover the surface of the fermenting kraut and press around the edge of the crock to keep water out. It's flexible enough to let the fermentation gas escape and the weight of the water keeps the kraut pressed below the surface of the fluid in the crock so it doesn't go bad. Paul That's pretty much what I did Paul, except the zip loc bag sat on top of an inverted plate so I could see if any muck formed up around the edge. Worked fine so will do it again sometime. I'll try the inverted plate idea next time I make kraut. Paul |
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