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Kill Ants Organically?
in article , Margaret Kenna at
wrote on 6/3/03 9:19 AM: "B. Joshua Rosen" wrote: Is there any way to kill ants organically? We have tried pouring boiling water on the colony, but it is just too large. Are there any natural predators of ants that could survive in a south-western Virginia climate? Hot water sounds about as inorganic as you can go. What makes you say that ? Bill There is no carbon in water, i.e. it's inorganic. So use carbonated water. Strictly speaking, carbonates although containing carbon, behave inorganically as far as chemical reactions are concerned. I am guessing here, but I think that using washing soda (sodium carbonate) solutions will give soapy characteristics to the solution. If I were to go that route, I would try to get potash or potassium carbonate to add to the water. It will add potassium to the soil. It will also raise soil pH, but that is not always a desirable thing to to. In the West, where I live, the soil is usually too alkaline anyway. Bill |
Kill Ants Organically?
Way back when, Fish wrote:
Is there any way to kill ants organically? We have tried pouring boiling water on the colony, but it is just too large. Are there any natural predators of ants that could survive in a south-western Virginia climate? Thanks Fish Does anyone object to diametacious earth? |
Kill Ants Organically?
Repeating Decimal wrote: in article , Brian at wrote on 6/2/03 6:24 PM: Hot water sounds about as inorganic as you can go. What makes you say that ? Where is the carbon in H2O. If H2O is organic, It should go without saying, you know what I meant. No garden can grow without water. You can get in debates with people on what is safe to put on a garden and one thing they never argue is safe or not is water. (unless you want to talk about pollution or acid rain) why not H2S which is often generated organically? How about organic compounds such as HCN? Because of HCN, do not eat a lot of apple seeds at any one time. The nuts have taken over chemistry as applied to food. I grow great veggies hydroponicly. My plant nutrients do not see any carbon or other products derived from living entities. What about carbon dioxide, or do you have them in a vacuum ? They eat the stuff gratefully and seem to be happy. Bill |
Kill Ants Organically?
Repeating Decimal wrote: in article , Brian at wrote on 6/3/03 3:29 AM: Good catch. I'll bet it would work though. Ok, you got me there. I was looking at it from the organic gardener and using poison. If that is the case say so. Ricin is organic. So are a host of other plant toxins ranging from those derived from amanitas or oxalic acid from rhubarb. Bill Okay I have to spell it out for you. Stuff that you can use on your plants and still sell it as organic produce in a market place. |
Kill Ants Organically?
in article , Brian at wrote on
6/3/03 6:18 PM: If that is the case say so. Ricin is organic. So are a host of other plant toxins ranging from those derived from amanitas or oxalic acid from rhubarb. Bill Okay I have to spell it out for you. Stuff that you can use on your plants and still sell it as organic produce in a market place. I protest the perversion of the (American) English language to accommodate people who don't now what they are talking about. There is incredible inconsistency between what is organic (by almost any definition) and "organic" food production. I would sure appreciate a definition of organic as used by the "organic food industry." I don't think that there is one. It may be possible to list what is organic for every food for every situation. I cannot imagine that there is anything more organic, by any reasonable definition, in this world than oleander leaves. They certainly are not good for you. Bill |
Kill Ants Organically?
In article , Repeating Decimal
wrote: in article , Brian at wrote on 6/3/03 3:29 AM: Good catch. I'll bet it would work though. Ok, you got me there. I was looking at it from the organic gardener and using poison. If that is the case say so. Ricin is organic. So are a host of other plant toxins ranging from those derived from amanitas or oxalic acid from rhubarb. Bill The Aleuts in Alaska used to use aconite from monkshood as a poison on their spears, to kill whales. Monkshood grows wild in my garden -- it's gorgeous. Jan |
Kill Ants Organically?
Repeating Decimal wrote: in article , Brian at wrote on 6/3/03 6:18 PM: If that is the case say so. Ricin is organic. So are a host of other plant toxins ranging from those derived from amanitas or oxalic acid from rhubarb. Bill Okay I have to spell it out for you. Stuff that you can use on your plants and still sell it as organic produce in a market place. I protest the perversion of the (American) English language to accommodate people who don't now what they are talking about. There is incredible inconsistency between what is organic (by almost any definition) and "organic" food production. I would sure appreciate a definition of organic as used by the "organic food industry." Can't you use google ? I don't think that there is one. It may be possible to list what is organic for every food for every situation. I cannot imagine that there is anything more organic, by any reasonable definition, in this world than oleander leaves. They certainly are not good for you. Would you spray it on your garden ? No because the local store doesn't sell it to spray or mulch your garden with it. There is a lot of stuff nasty in nature. The way you keep on avoiding the subject and talking about all the "bad" things in nature I wouldn't dump hot lava, mercury, uranium, anthrax or oil on my garden either. They are all organic, correct ? Bill You seem like a smart guy, why don't you get this ? or are you just trolling ? |
Kill Ants Organically?
On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 05:27:49 GMT, Repeating Decimal
wrote: I protest the perversion of the (American) English language to accommodate people who don't now what they are talking about. There is incredible inconsistency between what is organic (by almost any definition) and "organic" food production. I would sure appreciate a definition of organic as used by the "organic food industry." I don't think that there is one. There is now, as far as the USA is concerned. There has been since October of 2002. The definition of 'organic' is now set by the USDA. Producers who sell more than $5000 per year must go through a certification process in order to call their food 'organic' or 'organically grown' in the USA. Producers who sell less than $5000 per year need not go through the certification process, but must still comply with the standards in order to call their food 'organic'. Details are available at: http://www.ers.usda.gov/features/Org...nicfarming.htm As far as the USA is concerned, debating other meanings of the word is as useless as debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Restricting your own use of the word to its meaning as used in chemistry is - of course - your privilege, but it's not going to have any effect whatsoever on anyone else (except perhaps your family members and friends). It will hinder your attempts at communication with others, especially in the context of gardening. In other words, I think it's silly. There are words which have acquired meanings that I don't particularly like either, but my purpose in reading, writing, or speaking is communication with others, so I recognize reality and adapt to it. Pat |
Kill Ants Organically?
in article , Brian at wrote on
6/4/03 4:42 AM: Would you spray it on your garden ? No because the local store doesn't sell it to spray or mulch your garden with it. There is a lot of stuff nasty in nature. The way you keep on avoiding the subject and talking about all the "bad" things in nature I wouldn't dump hot lava, mercury, uranium, anthrax or oil on my garden either. They are all organic, correct ? Bill You seem like a smart guy, why don't you get this ? or are you just trolling ? Of the items mentioned, only anthrax would be clearly organic. Oil might be. I am not trolling. I am a member of the language police. Bill |
Kill Ants Organically?
in article , Pat Meadows at
wrote on 6/4/03 5:14 AM: On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 05:27:49 GMT, Repeating Decimal wrote: I protest the perversion of the (American) English language to accommodate people who don't now what they are talking about. There is incredible inconsistency between what is organic (by almost any definition) and "organic" food production. I would sure appreciate a definition of organic as used by the "organic food industry." I don't think that there is one. There is now, as far as the USA is concerned. There has been since October of 2002. The definition of 'organic' is now set by the USDA. Producers who sell more than $5000 per year must go through a certification process in order to call their food 'organic' or 'organically grown' in the USA. Producers who sell less than $5000 per year need not go through the certification process, but must still comply with the standards in order to call their food 'organic'. Details are available at: http://www.ers.usda.gov/features/Org...nicfarming.htm As far as the USA is concerned, debating other meanings of the word is as useless as debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Restricting your own use of the word to its meaning as used in chemistry is - of course - your privilege, but it's not going to have any effect whatsoever on anyone else (except perhaps your family members and friends). It will hinder your attempts at communication with others, especially in the context of gardening. In other words, I think it's silly. There are words which have acquired meanings that I don't particularly like either, but my purpose in reading, writing, or speaking is communication with others, so I recognize reality and adapt to it. Pat I think that the organo-nuts are doing the country a disservice. I know of no reason to expect "organic" food to be safer than other kinds. Good practices and bad practices are to be found in both camps. What I want is *wholsome* food. Just for me to get a bearing answer the question: Is hydroponically grown food organic? What is the reason(s)? Bill |
Kill Ants Organically?
On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:50:46 GMT, Repeating Decimal
wrote: I think that the organo-nuts are doing the country a disservice. I know of no reason to expect "organic" food to be safer than other kinds. Good practices and bad practices are to be found in both camps. What I want is *wholsome* food. Just for me to get a bearing answer the question: Is hydroponically grown food organic? What is the reason(s)? I think it either could be or could not be, it would depend upon what it was fed with. Ugh. What a terrible sentence....[takes a deep breath and tries again]. I think it could be organic, if organic plant food was used. It could be not organic, if commercial plant food was used. Pat |
Kill Ants Organically?
in article , Pat Meadows at
wrote on 6/4/03 5:19 PM: I think it either could be or could not be, it would depend upon what it was fed with. Ugh. What a terrible sentence....[takes a deep breath and tries again]. I think it could be organic, if organic plant food was used. It could be not organic, if commercial plant food was used. That is my point. I use CHEMICALS! They are derived from MINERALS! Nothing in them has recently been processed by living things. Howard M. Resh, in his book hydroponic Food Production lists sources for elements used in the nutrient solution. All the materials dissolved in water are inorganic salts, acids, and bases. The include Potassium nitrate Calcium Nitrate Ammonium sulfate Potassium chloride Phosphoric acid Magnesium sulfate Nitric acide and other such items such as trace elements are provided by Iron chelate Boric acid Borax Copper sulfate Zinc chelate Manganese chelate Manganese sulfate and other similar item I grow tomatoes using such solutions. There are impurities. Are my tomatoes organic? can they be wholesome? Bill |
Kill Ants Organically?
"Repeating Decimal" wrote in message ... Pat Meadows wrote: I think it either could be or could not be, it would depend upon what it was fed with. Ugh. What a terrible sentence....[takes a deep breath and tries again]. I think it could be organic, if organic plant food was used. It could be not organic, if commercial plant food was used. That is my point. I use CHEMICALS! They are derived from MINERALS! Nothing in them has recently been processed by living things. Perhaps it's instructive to examine a sample substance - vinegar. I'm not a chemist or food scientist, but it would seem to me that vinegar is vinegar is vinegar - acetic acid, usually diluted with water to 5% acidity. Chemically identical, no? But if you're farming using USDA organic standards and want to use vinegar to kill some weeds, you can't use synthetically produced vinegar, but only that produced by natural fermentation processes. It doesn't make any sense. There are plenty of other instances where the regs *do* make sense, though. Jason |
Kill Ants Organically?
On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 03:27:38 GMT, Repeating Decimal
wrote: I grow tomatoes using such solutions. There are impurities. Are my tomatoes organic? I've no idea. can they be wholesome? I don't see why not. From aesthetic preference (if nothing else), I would prefer to grow my tomatoes in the earth, the way they have always grown. However, when it's wintertime, I'm happy to grow tomatoes in (soilless) potting soil in pots indoors and feed them with commercial plant food (not organic). I don't like to use fish emulsion in the house as it smells, plus I believe it would encourage the cat to dig up the plant. Pat |
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