GardenBanter.co.uk - Newsgroups dead? Was: pantry moths?

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23-12-2003 06:02 PM

Newsgroups dead? Was: pantry moths?

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:52:24 -0500, "len"
wrote:

I just miss your posts that's all, I figured you had been spammed out
existance. Len

Thanks for the nice words!

Sadly, I've just about decided that Usenet newsgroups are no
longer worth it: too many spammers, trolls, stalkers, other
problems (including the surreptitious harvesting of whole
groups for commercial websites), very poor noise/signal
ratio, etc. etc.

I have participated in Usenet newsgroups for over 15 years,
but I just don't think (right now) that they are any longer
a productive use of time.

So I've pretty much switched to mailing lists instead. I
still read this group from time to time. I skipped the
whole eternal cross-posted thread.... ugh. That was a
beautiful, perhaps classic, example of why I don't think
newsgroups a worthwhile use of time at present.

Maybe I'll change my mind in the future, but right now,
that's how I see it.

If you want to know my recommendations for mailing lists,
please email me privately. My address in this message is
real.

Cheers!
Pat

Copyright © 2003 Patricia Meadows
All Rights Reserved

Jim Elbrecht

24-12-2003 04:43 PM

Newsgroups dead? Was: pantry moths?

wrote:

-snip-
Sadly, I've just about decided that Usenet newsgroups are no
longer worth it: too many spammers, trolls, stalkers, other
problems (including the surreptitious harvesting of whole
groups for commercial websites), very poor noise/signal
ratio, etc. etc.

I don't know how anyone reads most groups these days without a filter
that eliminates crossposts. I use nfilter - no longer at
nfilter.org, but the FAQ is cached by google- Search for "nfilter faq"

There are probably alternatives but I've never looked for one. I just
never see any post crossposted to a group with politics or religion in
its name. It also killfiles any post that goes to more than 3 groups.
[you can set it to kill any crossposted message, but I do see
occasional posts that are crossposted judiciously that are worth
reading]

I occasionally add a certain group that seems to be just troll bait &
eliminate crossposts to it. Agent takes care of the never ending
threads and occasional trolls.

I have participated in Usenet newsgroups for over 15 years,
but I just don't think (right now) that they are any longer
a productive use of time.

I've only been on usenet 1/2 that time, but I still find too much
wheat among the chaff to give it up.

So I've pretty much switched to mailing lists instead. I
still read this group from time to time. I skipped the
whole eternal cross-posted thread.... ugh. That was a
beautiful, perhaps classic, example of why I don't think
newsgroups a worthwhile use of time at present.

Even without crossposts- after about 30 posts threads are rarely
productive, so I just killfile them when they get too far afield.

Maybe I'll change my mind in the future, but right now,
that's how I see it.

If you want to know my recommendations for mailing lists,
please email me privately. My address in this message is
real.

I use my real address, too. That is really the only down-side to
Usenet that I haven't found a decent cure for. I'm still getting
50-100 'MS security updates' a day, not to mention all those body
fixes that I have no need for. But I *want* some folks to be able to
reach me easily.

Jim

[email protected]

24-12-2003 05:34 PM

Newsgroups dead? Was: pantry moths?

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:41:36 GMT, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

wrote:

-snip-
Sadly, I've just about decided that Usenet newsgroups are no
longer worth it: too many spammers, trolls, stalkers, other
problems (including the surreptitious harvesting of whole
groups for commercial websites), very poor noise/signal
ratio, etc. etc.

I don't know how anyone reads most groups these days without a filter
that eliminates crossposts. I use nfilter - no longer at

So I've pretty much switched to mailing lists instead. I
still read this group from time to time. I skipped the
whole eternal cross-posted thread.... ugh. That was a
beautiful, perhaps classic, example of why I don't think
newsgroups a worthwhile use of time at present.

Even without crossposts- after about 30 posts threads are rarely
productive, so I just killfile them when they get too far afield.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear about that. I have an excellent
news program (Agent). I wasn't referring to seeing the
cross-posted thread in more than one newsgroup.

I was referring to the fact that cross-posting is
notoriously indulged in by trolls (as well as sometimes by
non-trolls) and cross-posted threads tend to degenerate
fairly quickly into hostility and insult-slinging with no
redeeming value -- as indeed, the one here recently did.

Pat

--
To email me, remove the spam trap and type my first
name in its place.

CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International: http://www.thehungersite.com/

Frogleg

25-12-2003 11:32 AM

Newsgroups dead? Was: pantry moths?

wrote:

I have participated in Usenet newsgroups for over 15 years,
but I just don't think (right now) that they are any longer
a productive use of time.

So I've pretty much switched to mailing lists instead. I
still read this group from time to time. I skipped the
whole eternal cross-posted thread.... ugh. That was a
beautiful, perhaps classic, example of why I don't think
newsgroups a worthwhile use of time at present.

Several of my favorites seem to be degenerating, too. I hang in,
hoping regulars will learn not to feed the trolls and the obscene
children will get tired of their games and go away.

A somewhat chatty group, like rec.gardens, *does* tend to wander
off-topic. Moderated groups (like rec.food.recipes) are much tidier,
but a little dull. :-)

I thought the "self-sufficiency" thread was originally rather
thought-provoking. And of course, relevant to .edible. However,
unmoderated debate always seems to attract insult-hurlers.

Stick around, Pat. We can all use reports from the *real* trenches.

[email protected]

25-12-2003 02:32 PM

Newsgroups dead? Was: pantry moths?

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:30:21 GMT, Frogleg
wrote:

Stick around, Pat. We can all use reports from the *real* trenches.

I'm sorry, I can't do that. I am trying to earn a little
money by doing some cooking and gardening writing.

I can write to mailing lists or newsgroups to get my
thoughts organized, and I enjoy doing it. This is often the
beginning of a potentially saleable article. It would seem
a win-win situation.

But I cannot do so when my writings are taken in their
entirety and published on someone's commercial website.
This could be thought to constitute 'prior publication' and
it detracts greatly from my chances of selling an article.
Most editors want articles that have not been published
elsewhere.

Anyway, happy holidays!

Pat

Copyright © 2003 Patricia Meadows
All Rights Reserved

--
To email me, remove the spam trap and type my first
name in its place.

CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International: http://www.thehungersite.com/

Jim Elbrecht

25-12-2003 03:12 PM

Newsgroups dead? Was: pantry moths?

wrote:

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:41:36 GMT, Jim Elbrecht

-snip-

Even without crossposts- after about 30 posts threads are rarely
productive, so I just killfile them when they get too far afield.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear about that. I have an excellent
news program (Agent). I wasn't referring to seeing the
cross-posted thread in more than one newsgroup.

I was referring to the fact that cross-posting is
notoriously indulged in by trolls (as well as sometimes by
non-trolls) and cross-posted threads tend to degenerate
fairly quickly into hostility and insult-slinging with no
redeeming value -- as indeed, the one here recently did.

I understood you loud and clear. I use Agent, too. But I use
nfilter to eliminate the crossposting trolls. I have mine set to
eliminate anything crossposted to 4 or more groups. That gets 90% of
the trolls and to date [4-5 yrs of using nfilter] I've never missed a
single thread of interest. The 'kill anything crossposted to a
religious or political group filter' gets another 4% or so.

I just retrieved the new messages for this group. Agent says
there are 291 messages on my server that I haven't seen yet.

But it only downloaded 1. 289 were crossposted to more than 3
groups. 1 was *
[I just checked googlegroups to see that one. I'm taking off the
filter on to see where it pops up again. I doubt I
would have ever killfiled a whole domain over Froggy.g]

Nfilter acts like a 'pre-filter'. I still usually use Agent's
filters to manage individual groups.

Nfilter is no longer supported, but it was freeware from the gitgo. I
think Hamster will do the same thing & may still have support.

Jim

[email protected]

26-12-2003 01:33 PM

Newsgroups dead? Was: pantry moths?

wrote:

But I cannot do so when my writings are taken in their
entirety and published on someone's commercial website.
This could be thought to constitute 'prior publication' and
it detracts greatly from my chances of selling an article.
Most editors want articles that have not been published
elsewhere.

A quick note to the internet provider of the offending site will probably
help in removing your content. Specifically, say that you are the copyright
owner of the material in question, you've requested that your material not
be used (I'm assuming that's the case...if not, start there), and that you
would like the offending material removed immediately. Do a search on the
DMCA. Once notified, the provider itself can be responsible for copyright
infringement if it does nothing. So most are pretty quick to act. :)

If you don't get a suitable response, go to next provider up the chain.
It's possible the offending person himself or his friends run his ISP. But
somewhere, they are buying a feed, and that company will need to act. If
you need help in figuring out who to contact, drop me a line.

I'd be careful about putting your material on mailing lists, as well. Most
have some sort of web-based archive available. Once it's there, it's as
good as published, too.

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