writes:

I think the organic thing
is
the latest craze, and it's promising things it cannot do.

You must be absolutely correct. After all, my own garden, prolific with
delicious produce, probably exists only in my imagination. That is why I
start getting telephone calls in March and April from friends asking if
I'm planning to plant certain things this year and requesting to be put on
the list, some of those garden themselves.

There are those on this group who have been to my web page from 2002 and
seen what my garden is like and know from that, and their own experiences,
that organic works.

As for it's being "the latest craze," it's a practice that has been in
place for far longer than there have been television, radios, or even
presses. But you probably aren't aware of that. You seem determined to
insult it totally as if all the good it produces doesn't exist. To each
his own. You use chemicals, I do not. That is the way of the world. The
objection on my part is that you come across as totally against it when it
has proven in a very high percentage of home gardens to be effective.
That commercial farms are converting speaks for itself . . . for those who
wish to hear and to listen. One thing for certain, the chemical-producing
companies are not going to tout its benefits.

Thats because you are satisfied with mediocre tasting fruit and
probably
have
never tasted a really excellent apple. Those are the apples that
organic
farmers
don't grow because they are not inherantly disease resistant.

If I were ever ready to call someone stupid, you are getting close.
Obviously you cannot read. I grew up in eastern Washington which has been
stated in this thread. Not only have I eaten of the most delicious apples
on the face of the planet, but I have picked some as well. My own
grandparents had a variety of apple trees in their yard, in the heart of
the best apple-producing area of the world. My childhood is the basis of
all apple tasting, because I've had the best.

Your comment about my own apple tasting really reveals to me that you just
go off un-informed and not wanting to be informed. You come across as a
truly sad person, and I suspect you have many inter-personal problems with
others based on your inability to listen. Your opinions seem to be the
only ones that matter and everyone who thinks differently must be
silenced. I'll bet you voted for our current president and plan to do so
again.


I take Oat and Wheat bran with my cereal every morning, but it still
does
not keep my blood pressure down.

I don't recall saying anything about either of those affecting blood
pressure, only that oat bran will lower cholesterol, based on it absorbing
it so it never gets into the bloodstream. Not only it that highly
documented by credible sources, but it has been proven correct over and
over in the lives of friends as they start practicing it. As I said in my
last response to you, you do tend to read into writings things that are
not there. This comment only serves to prove my point!

Taking with your cereal is rather deceptive and only minimally effective;
make your cereal oat bran and you'll see a difference in your test results.

As for your blood pressure, I'm not at all surprised that yours is high.
If you simply enjoyed life and adapted a more encompassing attitude about
life around you, it would very likely become closer to what would be
normal. If your doctor were to read your responses in this thread, there
is no doubt in my mind that the same doctor would tell you that you, not
the meds, must do the bulk of correcting the problem. Meds can help, but
the patient must change their lifestyle which, in your case, might mean to
not spend so much of your energy trying to be angry with everyone in the
world. Just look at how much negative energy you have created and
expended on this thread . . . one can only imagine what you do with the
rest of your life. Instead of coming back with insulting remarks to me
about this, try seriously evaluating my comments regarding this with an
open mind for several days. More importantly, practice it . . . instead
of just reacting to contradict someone, think about what they have said,
find what there is that you agree with and concentrate on that instead of
attacking ideas (and even people). You will be a much happier person, as
will those around you, and your blood pressure will start coming down.
Try it, you will be amazed.

OK., so you go out and tell everyone to throw their medication is the
garbage can.

Again, you have taken something said and turned it into something entirely
different. What I said, and clearly written, was that doctors are too
quick to reach for prescription pads and not taking advantage of natural
methods and incorporating them whenever possible. When I had a physical
several years ago, my cholesterol was very high on the test, repeat "on
the test." They scheduled me with the specialist who spoke with me and
reached for his prescription pad. I told him to take another test, that I
knew it would be down 40 points from where it was several weeks ago when
the blood test was taken. He didn't believe me but could clearly see that
I was unwilling to take meds that were going to potentially damage my
liver, cause dizziness, etc., on the basis of *ONE* blood test. You see,
I knew how I ate the days before that test and, after getting the results,
went back to my oat bran muffins (made with oat bran, no flours), skim
milk, orange juice, and sliced banana breakfast. He ordered a second blood
test . . . and, just as I said, my cholesterol was down a bit over 40
points.

My point was that many times meds are prescribed when they may not need to
be, and often could be prescribed in smaller doses if they really are
needed. However, you (generic you) would prefer to reach for a pill than
change your (generic your) life style. It's like that with gardening, see
a bug, grab the spray; don't identify the bug and see if there are natural
predators for it and utilize those. It doesn't take much in the way of
effort to reach for a pill bottle or a spray can. We human beings are
very much on the lazy, I don't want to be bothered, side.

Glenna
a lazy gardener, letting the beneficials and birds
take care of the bugs, and just enjoying the garden
(after supplementing the soil every fall/spring
with organic material to keep the soil healthy)

Glenna Rose wrote:

writes:

I think the organic thing
is
the latest craze, and it's promising things it cannot do.

You must be absolutely correct. After all, my own garden, prolific with
delicious produce, probably exists only in my imagination. That is why I
start getting telephone calls in March and April from friends asking if
I'm planning to plant certain things this year and requesting to be put on
the list, some of those garden themselves.

To quote you on your subsequent posting:
"The first fall I had this house, the apple crop was abundant (I have
several trees) but the coddling moths loved the apples so it was quite a
chore to have any pie or sauce and I just didn't pick from the trees to
eat as I had in my childhood."
I guess you forgot about the coddling moths.



There are those on this group who have been to my web page from 2002 and
seen what my garden is like and know from that, and their own experiences,
that organic works.

As for it's being "the latest craze," it's a practice that has been in
place for far longer than there have been television, radios, or even
presses.

It may have been around for many years, but now it's getting a lot more
attention.

But you probably aren't aware of that. You seem determined to
insult it totally as if all the good it produces doesn't exist. To each
his own. You use chemicals, I do not. That is the way of the world. The
objection on my part is that you come across as totally against

You obviously have not read all my postings. I use as many organic methods
as
practical ( sticky traps, mulch piles, etc.). I have never insulted it.
Just the way
certain people are telling us we MUST go over to it completely. I try and
do
minimal spraying to save my fruit. I don't particularly like spraying
chemicals,
but I have found the organic sprays do not do the complete job.

it when it
has proven in a very high percentage of home gardens to be effective.
That commercial farms are converting speaks for itself . . . for those who
wish to hear and to listen. One thing for certain, the chemical-producing
companies are not going to tout its benefits.

Thats because you are satisfied with mediocre tasting fruit and
probably
have
never tasted a really excellent apple. Those are the apples that
organic
farmers
don't grow because they are not inherantly disease resistant.

If I were ever ready to call someone stupid, you are getting close.
Obviously you cannot read. I grew up in eastern Washington which has been
stated in this thread. Not only have I eaten of the most delicious apples
on the face of the planet, but I have picked some as well.

If you are talking about the Washington Red Delicious, I have to believe
that
your exposure to other varieties is very limited. Even the growers in
Washington
are finally waking up and starting other varieties like Fuji and Gala
because the
public is tired of the nice shinny red apples that taste like cardboard.

My own
grandparents had a variety of apple trees in their yard, in the heart of
the best apple-producing area of the world.

Maybe so, but those are not the Washington Apples we buy in the Midwest.


My childhood is the basis of
all apple tasting, because I've had the best.

Your comment about my own apple tasting really reveals to me that you just
go off un-informed and not wanting to be informed. You come across as a
truly sad person,

Here we go with the insults again.

and I suspect you have many inter-personal problems with
others based on your inability to listen. Your opinions seem to be the
only ones that matter and everyone who thinks differently must be
silenced.

Oh, and I suppose yours is the only truth.

I'll bet you voted for our current president and plan to do so
again.

Actually, I voted for Gore. Surprised?




I take Oat and Wheat bran with my cereal every morning, but it still
does
not keep my blood pressure down.

I don't recall saying anything about either of those affecting blood
pressure, only that oat bran will lower cholesterol, based on it absorbing
it so it never gets into the bloodstream. Not only it that highly
documented by credible sources, but it has been proven correct over and
over in the lives of friends as they start practicing it. As I said in my
last response to you, you do tend to read into writings things that are
not there. This comment only serves to prove my point!

Taking with your cereal is rather deceptive and only minimally effective;
make your cereal oat bran and you'll see a difference in your test results.

As for your blood pressure, I'm not at all surprised that yours is high.
If you simply enjoyed life and adapted a more encompassing attitude about
life around you, it would very likely become closer to what would be
normal. If your doctor were to read your responses in this thread, there
is no doubt in my mind that the same doctor would tell you that you, not
the meds, must do the bulk of correcting the problem. Meds can help, but
the patient must change their lifestyle which, in your case, might mean to
not spend so much of your energy trying to be angry with everyone in the
world. Just look at how much negative energy you have created and
expended on this thread . . . one can only imagine what you do with the
rest of your life.

Hey, you are in this thread, as well. I just don't like people taking
anything
to a fanatical extreme. Organics has a place in this world, but it is not
yet the
total solution. When they come out with an organic spray that kills Codling

Moths, Plum Curculio, etc., I'll stop spraying the chemicals.

Instead of coming back with insulting remarks to me
about this, try seriously evaluating my comments regarding this with an
open mind for several days. More importantly, practice it . . . instead
of just reacting to contradict someone, think about what they have said,
find what there is that you agree with and concentrate on that instead of
attacking ideas (and even people). You will be a much happier person, as
will those around you, and your blood pressure will start coming down.
Try it, you will be amazed.

OK., so you go out and tell everyone to throw their medication is the
garbage can.

Again, you have taken something said and turned it into something entirely
different. What I said, and clearly written, was that doctors are too
quick to reach for prescription pads and not taking advantage of natural
methods and incorporating them whenever possible. When I had a physical
several years ago, my cholesterol was very high on the test, repeat "on
the test." They scheduled me with the specialist who spoke with me and
reached for his prescription pad. I told him to take another test, that I
knew it would be down 40 points from where it was several weeks ago when
the blood test was taken. He didn't believe me but could clearly see that
I was unwilling to take meds that were going to potentially damage my
liver, cause dizziness, etc., on the basis of *ONE* blood test. You see,
I knew how I ate the days before that test and, after getting the results,
went back to my oat bran muffins (made with oat bran, no flours), skim
milk, orange juice, and sliced banana breakfast. He ordered a second blood
test . . . and, just as I said, my cholesterol was down a bit over 40
points.

Well, we are really getting off topic for a gardening forum. Let's drop
this aspect.



My point was that many times meds are prescribed when they may not need to
be, and often could be prescribed in smaller doses if they really are
needed. However, you (generic you) would prefer to reach for a pill than
change your (generic your) life style. It's like that with gardening, see
a bug, grab the spray; don't identify the bug and see if there are natural
predators for it and utilize those. It doesn't take much in the way of
effort to reach for a pill bottle or a spray can. We human beings are
very much on the lazy, I don't want to be bothered, side.

Just like there are no magic pills for every malady, there are no effective
organic cures yet for every pest. If you are willing to accept that, we can

put this thing to rest.



Glenna
a lazy gardener, letting the beneficials and birds
take care of the bugs, and just enjoying the garden
(after supplementing the soil every fall/spring
with organic material to keep the soil healthy)

writes:


To quote you on your subsequent posting:
"The first fall I had this house, the apple crop was abundant (I have
several trees) but the coddling moths loved the apples so it was quite a
chore to have any pie or sauce and I just didn't pick from the trees to
eat as I had in my childhood."
I guess you forgot about the coddling moths.

NOTE: I said "The first fall I had this house ..." Obviously, I had no
control over what happened to the trees, or their care, before I owned it
and took possession of it *and* the apple trees!

Did that go right past you?

writes:


To quote you on your subsequent posting:
"The first fall I had this house, the apple crop was abundant (I have
several trees) but the coddling moths loved the apples so it was quite a
chore to have any pie or sauce and I just didn't pick from the trees to
eat as I had in my childhood."
I guess you forgot about the coddling moths.

NOTE: I said "The first fall I had this house ..." Obviously, I had no
control over what happened to the trees, or their care, before I owned it
and took possession of it *and* the apple trees!

Did that go right past you?

writes:


To quote you on your subsequent posting:
"The first fall I had this house, the apple crop was abundant (I have
several trees) but the coddling moths loved the apples so it was quite a
chore to have any pie or sauce and I just didn't pick from the trees to
eat as I had in my childhood."
I guess you forgot about the coddling moths.

NOTE: I said "The first fall I had this house ..." Obviously, I had no
control over what happened to the trees, or their care, before I owned it
and took possession of it *and* the apple trees!

Did that go right past you?

OK. Are you saying now that you are not getting any attacking pests on your
apple
trees? If not, what percentage of apples are attacked? Are you spraying
with any
organic stuff, and what is it?

Glenna Rose wrote:

writes:


To quote you on your subsequent posting:
"The first fall I had this house, the apple crop was abundant (I have
several trees) but the coddling moths loved the apples so it was quite a
chore to have any pie or sauce and I just didn't pick from the trees to
eat as I had in my childhood."
I guess you forgot about the coddling moths.

NOTE: I said "The first fall I had this house ..." Obviously, I had no
control over what happened to the trees, or their care, before I owned it
and took possession of it *and* the apple trees!

Did that go right past you?