Java Fern/Moss
 

Hey all, I've been lurking around here a few days and now I have a
question about the plants in my tank. For starters all I have is a 2.5
gal tank with one betta in it lit by a 20watt halogen desk lamp. I have
water sprites and some other kind of floating plant covering a good
part of the tank surface. Those are growing like there is no tomorrow.
My problems are below the surface.

First I bought some java moss thinking it would carpet the bottom of my
tank in no time. Well it just doesn't seem to grow much at all, and is
surely isn't really grabbing onto the gravel much at all. Secondly, my
java ferns don't seem to be growing much themselves, but throwing
plantlets off like crazy. I put a peice of drift wood in the tank for
the ferns to latch onto, but they dont seem to grab ahold. My betta
keeps rubbing on the wood tearing its fins so I think I'm going to take
the wood out. As such, I was wondering how well the fern will grow on
the substrated. I've read enough to know to not bury the rhizome, and
it seems that few of the larger sections of ferns have enough density
to sink and stand on their own with just a little help. Thus, is it
possible to grow the java fern this way, lightly on the gravel bottom.
The gravel is rather small in diameter, and natural rock, not painted
fancy stuff, it looks like its a lot of quartz also.

To top off my frustration, I have algae on all sides of the tank. I
only feed the fish a bit in the morning and at night, and he eats all I
give him in under a minute... Any advice is greatly apprechiated.

Java Fern/Moss
 

PiperJason wrote:
Hey all, I've been lurking around here a few days and now I have a
question about the plants in my tank. For starters all I have is a 2.5
gal tank with one betta in it lit by a 20watt halogen desk lamp. I have
water sprites and some other kind of floating plant covering a good
part of the tank surface. Those are growing like there is no tomorrow.
My problems are below the surface.

First I bought some java moss thinking it would carpet the bottom of my
tank in no time. Well it just doesn't seem to grow much at all, and is
surely isn't really grabbing onto the gravel much at all. Secondly, my
java ferns don't seem to be growing much themselves, but throwing
plantlets off like crazy. I put a peice of drift wood in the tank for
the ferns to latch onto, but they dont seem to grab ahold. My betta
keeps rubbing on the wood tearing its fins so I think I'm going to take
the wood out. As such, I was wondering how well the fern will grow on
the substrated. I've read enough to know to not bury the rhizome, and
it seems that few of the larger sections of ferns have enough density
to sink and stand on their own with just a little help. Thus, is it
possible to grow the java fern this way, lightly on the gravel bottom.
The gravel is rather small in diameter, and natural rock, not painted
fancy stuff, it looks like its a lot of quartz also.

To top off my frustration, I have algae on all sides of the tank. I
only feed the fish a bit in the morning and at night, and he eats all I
give him in under a minute... Any advice is greatly apprechiated.


I've had great success with Java moss. Just put a couple of pebbles in
it to make it stay on the gravel. To attach to driftwood you can use
pebbles to hold it down and/or hook it over spiky parts of the wood.

Java moss is low-light but it does require SOME light, say a watt per
gallon fluorescent or lower light plus indirect sunlight. The water
sprite is probably shading the moss too much. Placing the tank where
daylight can get in through the side may help.

Sorry I know little about Java fern but perhaps more light/ less shading
will help it too.
Steve

Java Fern/Moss
 

Sounds underlit and underfed. I have a similar setup on my desk and
use a 13 watt daylight fluorescent and the moss grows ok.[1] With an
18W (screw in) it gorws better but it's a bit glaring so I backed it
down.

Get some Tropica Master Grow. That'll feed the plants.


[1] You should see this stuff bust out in a well lit highly
fetilized tank. Yow.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Java Fern/Moss
 

I thought that this stuff doesn't need that much light... also trying
to find a light fixture for this tank is going to be hard since its so
small. Do you have any suggestions?

Java Fern/Moss
 

I thought that this stuff doesn't need that much light... also trying
to find a light fixture for this tank is going to be hard since its so
small. Do you have any suggestions?

Also since the algae is popping up I didn't think I had a nutrients
problem. I don't mind putting plant food in the tank, but I don't want
my algae to blow up either...

Java Fern/Moss
 

In article .com,
PiperJason wrote:
I thought that this stuff doesn't need that much light... also trying
to find a light fixture for this tank is going to be hard since its so
small. Do you have any suggestions?


Sort of, but no.

"Low light plants" like mosses, java ferns, Anubias and Cryptocorynes
will all grow in low light. But, in the wild they're found in full
sun and do better - spectacularly so - with more light.

"Can grow in dim light" is not the same as "prefers dim light".
As far as I know there are no aquatic plants that prefer dim light.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Java Fern/Moss
 

Richard, thanks for the tips. My next question is how would I go about
putting more light in this smallish tank? I do have some heat lamp
fixures for my geckos that I no longer use (I switched to heat pads
since they are ground dwellers). I suppose I could go get a 20 or
30watt day incandecent heat bulb. Would that work? of course I'd rather
go flourescent, but its such a small tank...

Java Fern/Moss
 

In article .com,
PiperJason wrote:
Richard, thanks for the tips. My next question is how would I go about
putting more light in this smallish tank? I do have some heat lamp
fixures for my geckos that I no longer use (I switched to heat pads
since they are ground dwellers). I suppose I could go get a 20 or
30watt day incandecent heat bulb. Would that work? of course I'd rather
go flourescent, but its such a small tank...


You're not going to get anywhere with incandescent, it's pretty
much useless for growing aquarium plants.

They make screw in fluorescents in daylight color as well as the
standard warm white. This gives you a lot of flexability since
they'll screw into any fixture that will take an incandescent.

So yo canuse a desk lamp or whatever you have lying around or
can scrounge.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Java Fern/Moss
 

On 9 Feb 2006 18:00:39 -0800, "PiperJason"
wrote:

Richard, thanks for the tips. My next question is how would I go about
putting more light in this smallish tank? I do have some heat lamp
fixures for my geckos that I no longer use (I switched to heat pads
since they are ground dwellers). I suppose I could go get a 20 or
30watt day incandecent heat bulb. Would that work? of course I'd rather
go flourescent, but its such a small tank...

I use 13 Watt compact fluorescent bulbs on my 2.5 G tanks. The 13W
bright Kits from AH Supply are good.

http://www.ahsupply.com/twox.htm

Right now I am still using the old incandescent hoods that I changed
to fluorescent, I'm in the process of making new ones from rain gutter
material.

Java Fern/Moss
 

In article ,
Charles wrote:
On 9 Feb 2006 18:00:39 -0800, "PiperJason"
wrote:

Richard, thanks for the tips. My next question is how would I go about
putting more light in this smallish tank? I do have some heat lamp
fixures for my geckos that I no longer use (I switched to heat pads
since they are ground dwellers). I suppose I could go get a 20 or
30watt day incandecent heat bulb. Would that work? of course I'd rather
go flourescent, but its such a small tank...

I use 13 Watt compact fluorescent bulbs on my 2.5 G tanks. The 13W
bright Kits from AH Supply are good.

http://www.ahsupply.com/twox.htm

Right now I am still using the old incandescent hoods that I changed
to fluorescent, I'm in the process of making new ones from rain gutter
material.

Yeah that works. What I do is find ols incandescent canopies in
yard sales of thrift shops (a dollor or two) and line them
with waterproof/hatproof mylar from hydroponics.com then
put in screwin fluorescents.

You can rape one hood and add those lights to the first one
and get 4 lights in most hoods.

They can't come close to a tube or compact fluprescent in
terms of lighting goodness, but for shallow(ish) tanks they
work fine.

Here's a pic:

http://images.aquaria.net/hw/lights/screwins/

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Java Fern/Moss
 

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message

"Can grow in dim light" is not the same as "prefers dim light".
As far as I know there are no aquatic plants that prefer dim light.

I was under the impression that most aquatic plants are shade lovers. Except
when it comes to certain stem plants.
--
Kind Regards
Cameron

Java Fern/Moss
 

Thanks for the input about the lighting. Now what about the growing the
Java Fern on the gravel? Possible? Not possible?

Java Fern/Moss
 

If you bury the Rhizome it will rot. Tie the rhizome to a small rock or
attach it to driftwood.
--
Kind Regards
Cameron

"PiperJason" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the input about the lighting. Now what about the growing the
Java Fern on the gravel? Possible? Not possible?

Java Fern/Moss
 

"Dogma Discharge" wrote in message
...
"Richard Sexton" wrote in message

"Can grow in dim light" is not the same as "prefers dim light".
As far as I know there are no aquatic plants that prefer dim light.

I was under the impression that most aquatic plants are shade lovers.
Except
when it comes to certain stem plants.
==============================
Since most lakes, ponds and streams are out in the open I would think they'd
be sun or partial-sun lovers.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Java Fern/Moss
 

In article , Dogma Discharge wrote:
"Richard Sexton" wrote in message

"Can grow in dim light" is not the same as "prefers dim light".
As far as I know there are no aquatic plants that prefer dim light.

I was under the impression that most aquatic plants are shade lovers. Except
when it comes to certain stem plants.

Nah. Here's some pics of biotopes of Cryptocoryne, a plant everybody
knows is a "dim light" plant:

http://crypts.ptr.aquaria.net/Crypto...peatmatang.jpg
http://crypts.ptr.aquaria.net/Crypto...rieder_x_1.jpg
http://crypts.ptr.aquaria.net/Crypto..._Chan_x_UT.jpg

"At this more or less sheltered spot C. affinis develops rather big leaves."
http://crypts.ptr.aquaria.net/Crypto...805_x_2515.jpg

"Much more C. affinis is found in the riverbed where they grow fully exposed to the sun"
http://crypts.ptr.aquaria.net/Crypto...805_x_2519.jpg

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Java Fern/Moss
 

In article .com,
PiperJason wrote:
Thanks for the input about the lighting. Now what about the growing the
Java Fern on the gravel? Possible? Not possible?


It will sit on top of it and grow if that's what you mean. The
moss will "stick" to stuff, but since gracel is made up of
lots of tiny rocks every time it's disturbed it'll lose
those anchoring points.

You can grow it on a rock or a small piece of wood. Or even
a tiny flowrpot and it'll stick reasonablky well to it.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Java Fern/Moss
 

"PiperJason" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the input about the lighting. Now what about the growing the
Java Fern on the gravel? Possible? Not possible?

I have a fair amount of Java Fern in all my tanks.
The driftwood-attached plants make a lot of babies.
I don't get around to do something with the babies
quickly, so they just float around and grow on their
own until they're big enough to draw my attention.

I guess what I'm saying is unless you need to
have your Java Fern in one place, just let the
babies go wherever they will. But rather
than trying to grow them in gravel (which I
don't think will work), you could get some
small ornaments, like the little Roman corner
walls Petsmart sells, and tie the plants to
those.

For tying I use polyester thread you can
find anyplace that sells sewing thread.

Gail

Java Fern/Moss
 

My Java Fern won't attach to my driftwood either but attaches very well
to rocks, particularly sandstone which is very porous. It can be tied to
the stones with thread or monofiliment but it will attach just as well
by just setting the rock on top of some of the hair roots - NOT the
rhizome. Having them on rocks also makes them easy to rearrange as
needed. As they get large I just add another rock along side and they
eventually creep over and cover it. I would be very careful dosing a
tank that small with fertilizers.

Java Fern/Moss
 

I've had great success in growing java moss with no artificial light in
a 5 gal guppy tank. It only got some filtered sunlight at certain times
of day. It was the only plant in the tank, it was growing fast, and it
had a bright green colour. Basically the lower 1/3 of the tank was all
java moss. Now I grow java moss in a heavy planted 20 gal tank. It
still grows fast, and creeps along the ground, but the colour is a much
darker green. I use pebbles to hold the moss down, and from there it
spreads around the gravel. It takes it awhile to attach, so its best
not to disturb the substrate at all. I use the same approach with a
java fern. I bured some roots in the gravel (but not the rhizome), and
just left it alone. It then started to attach to a nearby pebble and
gravel. (I have small pebbles scattered everywhere around the plants).
This particular fern started as a tiny plant that came entangled in
java moss. It was awhile before I found it and realized what it was. So
far it grows nicely, growing new leaves. The trick is not to disturb
these plants, which is hard to do in a small tank.

Java Fern/Moss
 

Bottom posted.
Gail Futoran wrote:
"PiperJason" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the input about the lighting. Now what about the growing
the Java Fern on the gravel? Possible? Not possible?

I have a fair amount of Java Fern in all my tanks.
The driftwood-attached plants make a lot of babies.
I don't get around to do something with the babies
quickly, so they just float around and grow on their
own until they're big enough to draw my attention.

I guess what I'm saying is unless you need to
have your Java Fern in one place, just let the
babies go wherever they will. But rather
than trying to grow them in gravel (which I
don't think will work), you could get some
small ornaments, like the little Roman corner
walls Petsmart sells, and tie the plants to
those.

For tying I use polyester thread you can
find anyplace that sells sewing thread.

Gail

You can also use lead fishing weights (i.e. in the form of a flexible thick
rod - not fishing rod) and bend them around one or more areas of the plant
(i.e. branches, leaves and/or roots - probably not the rhizome though) to
hold it down and if you hide the weights it looks great. Good luck and
later!

Java Fern/Moss
 

On 2006-02-09, PiperJason wrote:

To top off my frustration, I have algae on all sides of the tank. I
only feed the fish a bit in the morning and at night, and he eats all I
give him in under a minute... Any advice is greatly apprechiated.


I have java moss and java fern in my 1G betta tank. I also have pothos
and bamboo growing out of if. The lighting is natural sunlight through
the windows and the room light in the evenings. I never change the water.
Just add more water when it evaporates. The java moss grows out of
control and the fern reproduces amazingly well. I couldn't get either
plant to grow in my "plant" tanks.


--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

Java Fern/Moss
 

In article , js1 wrote:
On 2006-02-09, PiperJason wrote:

To top off my frustration, I have algae on all sides of the tank. I
only feed the fish a bit in the morning and at night, and he eats all I
give him in under a minute... Any advice is greatly apprechiated.


I have java moss and java fern in my 1G betta tank. I also have pothos
and bamboo growing out of if. The lighting is natural sunlight through
the windows and the room light in the evenings. I never change the water.
Just add more water when it evaporates. The java moss grows out of
control and the fern reproduces amazingly well. I couldn't get either
plant to grow in my "plant" tanks.

Rule 1 of algae control: any tanks that is 50% java moss will
never have any algae.

I've tried many things for as low as maintenance betta "jars"
and after playing with many a shoot, stalk, clump and who knows what
else, moss of any kind is the inevitabe winner. To the point where
one can assert that the recipe to keen any non annual killi in perpetuity
is to simply fill a 20, half fill it with java moss and let it get some
light; feeding is actually optional if you don't mind small numbers of fish -
the more food you add the more fry you get to scoop out.

Nah, moss is the single most usefull aquarium plant IMO. When I was
having trouble growing nothing but crypts and having some algae problem
Tom Barr told me to "add fast growing plants and fertilize" and I tried
many things. Stem plants were ok, but moss and flaoting plants worked,
each by themselves and togteher.

Water lettuce turns out to be a relly nice covering btw, it dwarfs and makes
1" plants. I have scads of them and should post a pic. Soon..





--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net