GardenBanter.co.uk - Aquabotanic

GardenBanter.co.uk (https://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/)

- Freshwater Aquaria Plants (https://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/freshwater-aquaria-plants/)

- - Aquabotanic (https://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/freshwater-aquaria-plants/30861-aquabotanic.html)

Isn't it funny how a story can change depending on what they are
defending???

Seems like we're all going to learn something from this fiasco...

to think there is two of you. Point is you demanded a full refund...
not a partial one, not to have the plants replaced but a full refund.

So you agree now that the order was for plants and not a CO2 system?
:)

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

Its real easy to make generalizations Tom. You have sent ME plants 3
times, and twice half of them were dead on arrival.

Oooo,you might not have wanted to go there.......

Point No#1
Have I ever recieved any form of compensation for the above said
plants?
Answer: no

Point no#2
Have I ever ordered from you?
Answer : no

Point no#3
Have you sent weekly emails taliking about some nice plants you got
from that are for sale and that you sold?
Answer: Yes.

Point no#4
Have you offered to compensate me?
Answer: yes, with plants, but I have placed orders for these plants
but never recieve anything for one reason or another, I suppose since
I'm not a paying customer and it's just a "trade". True, I have not
brought it up but since you did, well there comes back to bite you.

Point no#5:
Have you ever mentioned to me that the plants came in so-so or "dead"
when you recieved them?
Answer: no

You seemed happy to get them to me.

You complained to me about the "free" plants you have never
compensated me for.... but you do not want compensate others?

Hummm..........
Well I have never received a dime for those plants which you have
sold, because I know some of the folks that bought the plants from you
and I also know how much profit you made off them since you never paid
me for these plants to date. The customers also told me how they liked
the plants. Must not have been too bad of shape.

I've recieved poor plants from Arizona Aquatic Gardens, Peter took
care of me and sent free plants for the replacement. He knew that the
heat or whatever got them. He was cool about, asked a few basic
questions, and then said I'll take care of you. A few days later, a
free box of weeds at my door. I did not ask for them, they just
appeared since he knew that it would make me happy and could read what
the customer needed.

I understand very well the nature of this plant business and heat
cooks plants. I cannot, nor can anyone for that matter promise perfect
plants every time. All it takes is a few hours of good heat.

I send out 40 to 50 orders a week and I get 6 or so people a MONTH
complaining of the condition of the plants. Thats 6 out of 200. Out of
those six I often have one or two people who appear totally
unreasonable in how they want it resolved. Now perhaps I do need to
take this more seriously. My first response is to tell people what the
stated policy is on my WEB site. Then I
offer some way to resolve the situation. For some people this is not
good enough.

I offer the weeds free, they are cheap and grow fast, no sense in
****ing a customer off. Peter did this for me, Darin and Dan did in
the past years ago as well. I'll order more if they work with me and
we both try to minimize losses.

If the customer has repeated issues, then you simply say you cannot
serve them and refund their money etc or not take their order.

There are scammers.
But if you follow the policy outlined on the site, then if that's not
good enough send them new free plants(once only).

Now one or two out 200 is not going to cause that much of an issue.

Should I make a greater effort to make sure these people are happy
regardless of the cost? Should I just write it off? What would you do?

Give those cheap plants to them and keep them happy.
Service is king. They will buy again and tell a friend, "hey, I got
some so so plants but they replaced them free!" They took care of the
customer.
Since it's only a few folks, it's not going to cost much, shipping is
not a lot.
The plants at your cost are not much. The Reputation you'll gain from
this is a very worthwhile advertizing investment.

You have to serve the customers. It's just the simple. Smiles,
Service, Sales. Be friendly on the phone, make them feel special or if
there is anything you can do for them, let you know. Tell them you
will personally pick out some nice stuff and tell them about the
shipping in the heat etc not to let the box sit outside etc for 4 hrs
at 100F.

I have been doing this since 1999 and it is always a constant battle
to deal with this issue to keep the loss of damaged plants at an
absolute minimum. Now I have many, many loyal customers that have
bought from me continously over the years. They know they will be well
taken care of. This is what has kept my business growing. Every
quarter my business has doubled. But I can not have first time
customers turned away from a bad experience and continue to grow,
regardless of the reason or how unjustified. I have always strongly
been a advocate of this hobby and gone to great lengths to provide
eduation. Thats what my whole WEB site is about. But I guess I am now
realizing that is not good enough.

I know you try better than many Robert. I'm just saying for the small
% that you said have a real issue, just give those plants to them.
It's not worth the hassle at some point no matter how good you try
etc.
**** off one and they tell 100 people, make one happy they tell 2-3.
Plants are cheap. Even if they are wrong(But the customer is never
wrong anyway), just deal with it.

"What can I do to make it right sir/madam?"
And then listen.

So I will examin this very closely and try to determin a policy that
protects the customer and will make them feel like they can buy from
Aqua Botanic with trust and confidence so that even the most demanding
newbie will feel satisfied.
Robert

Sounds like a plan!
I'd caution against back and forthing with a customer on a forum, it
seldom ever does anyone any good, least of all the retailer. Just
ignore it.

Look into business management, other ways of dealing with customer
services. These are basic tenents.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Thanks for the clarification sherry. but I am still confused. I do not
recall a private e-mail being posted here - in this thread. Could you point
me to where that was?

thank you very much.

bob

"Sherry Michael Weller" wrote in message
...

Bob Alston wrote:

Sherry -

didn't you just do what you admonished the earlier poster not to do?

Bob

No. Nikolay chose to post *his own* comments here and I replied to them.
I did not take email that was sent to me alone and post it without his
permission. That's the difference.

--
Sherry Michael Weller

Point No#1
Have I ever recieved any form of compensation for the above said
plants?
Answer: no

Point no#2
Have I ever ordered from you?
Answer : no bla bla bla

Tom, I think you missed my point. I was not ragging on you. You sent
me plants that you offered to give me, and I WAS gratefull to have
them. I never asked you for the plants, you just sent them to me. And
of course I never complained to you about them. They were free! My
point was even plants from you, the great Tom Barr can arrive in the
mail as mush. And thats what they were was mush

But if you want to get freakin personal Tom, do you want me to talk
about our business realtionship in public? Do you want me to talk
about all the customers of mine that you screwed up selling your
reactor? Orders that were shipped two or three months late because you
couldn't handle the drop shipping on time? Who took the heat for that?
You? No, ME. Did it hurt your reputation any? NO. ME. I lost
customers because you could not deliver as promised. Not even close to
as promised. It was the most unorganized and unprofessional business
relationship I have ever been involved in. Communication was completly
non exsistent. I couldn't find out when an order was going to ship,
and I could never get proof of delivery, billing, tracking...nothing.
Your partner didn't even know my name or who I was, and I was your
biggest and only dealer. I could have sold three times the number I
did, easy, but you screwed it up. What did you lose in the process?
Nothing. Nobody outside of us even knew what was going on. I never
told anyone. I had one customer Tom that was setting up a 300 gallon
tank and was going to spend over 1000 dollars in plants and equipment
that I lost because of your crap. It took you three months to get him
his reactor. THREE MONTHS. I never heard from him again. He was one of
what, three dozen? And don't say you ate the cost of materials because
I don't care, its not even close to the damage it did at the time. So
don't lecture me. Jesus Christ. Bob was right about you. You have a
hell of a lot of nerve.

You are the last person I expected this from. You have pretty much
killed my idea here...but what the hell...this is the plan I came up
with.

For orders over $100, I will replace any plants with either the same
plants or plants of equal value, if the person returns the damaged or
unwanted plants within five days of recieving them.

For orders under $100 of any size order, I will replace any plants on
orders that were sent by overnight mail.

I hope people find this fair and just. I was going to ask you Tom for
your input, but now I don't give a F

Robert

I never asked you for the plants, you just sent them to me. And
of course I never complained to you about them. They were free! My
point was even plants from you, the great Tom Barr can arrive in the
mail as mush. And thats what they were was mush

Ok, I know I'm budding in here, but this bugs me...

why would anyone send you plants that you didn't ask for? because they just
woke up that morning and said, "As soon as I get done with my cheerios, I
think I'll send Robert at aquabotanic some plants... what the hell???"

I never have done business with you, and after hearing all your flip
flopping on stories, I think I've made up my mind that I will NOT do
business with someone who changes stories to suit their needs, sells plants
given to them for profit without ever giving proper compensation. Secondly,
it's better business to allow the customer to be right, even when you know
you are right, when it's gonna cost you, and when it puts you out... why???
Customers are supposed to be right.... Seems like that may have been
forgotten in your recent past... And as a consumer, hearing you in a
public forum throwing out information like stones, you're not really sure
who you are hitting, but I can tell you this... I got hit by one of your
proverbial stones, and on that stone was written, " Go where there are no
waves, avoid aquabotanic and be happy "

I think I'll take that advice..... Sorry for butting in and sticking my
nose in someone else's busines....

Robert,

I have said that at least 2 times already:
---------------------------------------------------------
I have NOT ordered ANY kind of a CO2 system from you. Ever.
---------------------------------------------------------

I'm very interested to see the invoice that you have.
I know it can NOT be real.

To start - I'd appreciate it if you tell me what is the exact date
when you have charged my credit card for a CO2 system.
That will allow me to check my credit card records. From there things
will go one of 2 ways:

1. If there is indeed a charge as you claim I will ask you to send me
the actual paper invoice that you claim to have.

2. If there is no charge (since as you claim I have disputed the
charge with my credit company) I'd still ask you to send me the actual
paper invoice that you claim to have.

If I actually receive the invoice that you claim to have I will call
my credit company. I will ask them to to retrieve the record that
could show that there was a dispute about that particular transaction.
I used to work in a bank and a bank keeps records for every, even the
smallest detail about a transaction. They would certainly have a
record of a cancelation that you claim I have done. Such record does
not exist and you, Robert, CANNOT do anything about it.

I will then have no other choice:
I will have to consult my lawyer about what is the best way to go
about a company that receives an order from a client and then charges
their credit card for other orders not placed by the customer.

--Nikolay

Sherry,

As you already know I don't visit Robert's forum too often.
My experience, as well as the experience of others, has been that he
just simply deletes the posts that tell the truth but he himself finds
unacceptable. These are posts about his service and about other
companies that sell plants.

Please note 2 things in what I said above:
1. I don't speak from my experience only.
2. I have not visited the forum lately.

One may say that Robers has become more open to people's opinions now.
I simply cannot claim I know. But I seriously doubt that. To me a
good proof would be to go to his forum and see positive as well as
negative comments about his service. And of course - to see Robert
posting responses to the people that are not satisfied, resolving the
issues and so on. Will I see that if I go there now? Honestly, I'll
be happy if you say "Yes!".

As you can see in this newsgroup - he constantly tries to put his
company in the minds of others. That is very much spamming the group.
I personally have no problem with him doing that. It's a business
approach that works as long as it's tolerated.
I just want people to know my experience and I'd like to hear the
experience of others about any other company.

Sherry, what personal e-mail are you reffering to?
I have not posted any personal e-mails here. I just don't know what
you are talking about.

--Nikolay

There is no private e-mail that I have posted here.

I'm very anal about how I say things and what I post.
I do NOT want to see this newsgroup turning into a hostile place.

It may seem strange but if one reads my posts in this thread they will
see that I have not insulted Robert in any way. In fact months ago I
was glad to hear that people had good experiences with his company.
It made me feel that things are not as bad as I used to think they
are.

I keep my respect to others and that includes people that I critisize.

I'm after an objective, true image of the companies we deal with.
That is all.

Posting a personal e-mail is totally out of the question for me.
I don't know what Sherry is referring to. I just posted asking her to
explain, may be she clarify, I don't know.

--Nikolay

Mid-posted:

"nikolay_kraltchev" wrote in message
om...
There is no private e-mail that I have posted here.

I'm very anal about how I say things and what I post.
I do NOT want to see this newsgroup turning into a hostile place.

too late...

It may seem strange but if one reads my posts in this thread they will
see that I have not insulted Robert in any way. In fact months ago I
was glad to hear that people had good experiences with his company.
It made me feel that things are not as bad as I used to think they
are.

I keep my respect to others and that includes people that I critisize.

I'm after an objective, true image of the companies we deal with.
That is all.

Posting a personal e-mail is totally out of the question for me.
I don't know what Sherry is referring to. I just posted asking her to
explain, may be she clarify, I don't know.

--Nikolay

"nikolay_kraltchev" wrote in message
om...
There is no private e-mail that I have posted here.

I'm very anal about how I say things and what I post.
I do NOT want to see this newsgroup turning into a hostile place.

RANT
It seems to me its too late... I find it fairly unfortunate that a few
people have managed to completely sidetrack the newsgroup with this train
wreck for a few days. Last time I checked I was subscribed to
rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants not rec.aquaria.useless.rants... (That I now
find myself even sucked into...) Personally I think it would be nice if
everyone involved would finish this elsewhere. If you have had bad
experiences with Robert don't deal with him. And feel free to tell others.
Personally I haven't dealt with him on any business level. However I do find
his forums to very useful and informative. Does he remove posts he deems
unacceptable? Maybe but, I don't know that I care. It is his web forum
sponsored by his business so if he would like to do that I guess it's his
choice. I still find the knowledge of the collective whole there to be a
valuable resource. If you don't agree then don't use it... You do always
have the option of setting up your own forums or using others.
/RANT

So can we please get back to our regularly scheduled programming in this
newsgroup???

I'm not trying to attack anyone I just want to get back to planted tanks
that's all...

Ron

This whole situation is starting to remind me of the early stages of the PSW
fiasco. Anyone else think so?

Ron,

So I have to shut up when Robert and people close to him (Rex) spam
this group with shameless sales pitches?

So I have to shut up when Robert falsely accuses me of buyng something
and not wanting to pay for it?

So I have to shut up when I have to share a bad experience?

What is happening here goes like this:
We don't want to associate our hobby with anything negative.
I myself hate to get into all that crap that I see evolved here the
last few days.
So we tend to not talk about the bad experiences. And any person
running an business that is inconsistent benefits from that.

Forgive me people, but every so often that situation bothers me.
Especially when I see a particularly shamless sales pitch.

--Nikolay