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#1
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
Hi everybody,
I have a 25 gallon Aquarium populated by Mollies, 4 of them at the time (2 adult (one of them born in the tank) and 2 young (2 months old, born in the tank)). I have never been able to keep the plants in the tank beautifull or even living for a period of more than 2 or 3 weeks. They all wither and die very rapidly once planted. It looks to me as if the roots or the bases of the plants near the root outside the gravel are rotting (althought that might be too strong a term). I've had 6 different varieties of plants, none of which survived very long. My fish seems to die a little bit too much also, although the salesman at the local fish store tells me this is normal. Here are the results of the most recent test: PH: 8.5 KH: 60 ppm (about 3.4, I beleive is the correct conversion) GH: 80 ppm (about 4.5, I beleive is the correct conversion) NH3/NH4 (ammonia): around 0.6 ppm (test kit doesn't give super precise result, so it's around 0.6ppm or maybe a little less) NO2 (Nitrite): 0.1 or less ppm NO3 (Nitrate): 5 or less ppm Neon is open 12 hours a day. No CO2 is added in the tank. I make a 25-40% water change every 7 to 9 days. Tap water is used for that purpose. I add some tap water conditioner (Nutrafin's Aquaplus) and a nitrifier (Nutrifin's Cycle) everytime I make a water change. So, what can I do in the immediate to remedy the situation, and what can I do in the long term to make sure this situation doesn't arise again? Thanks a whole lot for any help. |
#2
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
I have never been able to keep the plants in the tank beautifull or
even living for a period of more than 2 or 3 weeks. They all wither and die very rapidly once planted. See this page: http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/.../881/dying.htm I suspect you don't have enough light for the kind of plants you are buying. You don't say how much light you have over the tank, but if you have only an ordinary tank hood, you probably don't have enough light to grow most aquarium plants. PH: 8.5 KH: 60 ppm (about 3.4, I beleive is the correct conversion) Yikes. Your pH is pretty high for that KH. Are you adding something to the tank? NH3/NH4 (ammonia): around 0.6 ppm (test kit doesn't give super precise result, so it's around 0.6ppm or maybe a little less) NO2 (Nitrite): 0.1 or less ppm Ammonia and nitrite should not be detectible in a healthy tank. Something's wrong. How long has this tank been set up? Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#3
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
See this page: http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/.../881/dying.htm Thanks for the direct link I suspect you don't have enough light for the kind of plants you are buying. You don't say how much light you have over the tank, but if you have only an ordinary tank hood, you probably don't have enough light to grow most aquarium plants. Yeah, it's the hood and neon that came with the Aquarium, I think it's 20W, but I don't have the specs anymore PH: 8.5 KH: 60 ppm (about 3.4, I beleive is the correct conversion) Yikes. Your pH is pretty high for that KH. Are you adding something to the tank? Only what I said, a water conditionner http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/...07655001010 1 and the nitrifier http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/...07612001010 1 NH3/NH4 (ammonia): around 0.6 ppm (test kit doesn't give super precise result, so it's around 0.6ppm or maybe a little less) NO2 (Nitrite): 0.1 or less ppm Ammonia and nitrite should not be detectible in a healthy tank. Something's wrong. How long has this tank been set up? As I said, the test kits are not super precise and the 0.6ppm value for amonia could be less and the 0.1ppm nitrite level is actually the first value on the chart, so it could be less or 0 as well. Here's the test kit that I'm using to make the tests: http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/...001700010 101 I just noticed that this is a "pond" test kit...does that matter? The tank has been set up aout 15 months ago. So what would be my first immediate step then? Change the neon for a brighter one as soon as possible? |
#4
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
I love the name. I had a greater demon of Tzeentch once....
okay....how long is the fluoro light? we can give you wattage with that. How big of a tank is it? we need more info. Rich Tzeentch wrote: See this page: http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/.../881/dying.htm Thanks for the direct link I suspect you don't have enough light for the kind of plants you are buying. You don't say how much light you have over the tank, but if you have only an ordinary tank hood, you probably don't have enough light to grow most aquarium plants. Yeah, it's the hood and neon that came with the Aquarium, I think it's 20W, but I don't have the specs anymore PH: 8.5 KH: 60 ppm (about 3.4, I beleive is the correct conversion) Yikes. Your pH is pretty high for that KH. Are you adding something to the tank? Only what I said, a water conditionner http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/...07655001010 1 and the nitrifier http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/...07612001010 1 NH3/NH4 (ammonia): around 0.6 ppm (test kit doesn't give super precise result, so it's around 0.6ppm or maybe a little less) NO2 (Nitrite): 0.1 or less ppm Ammonia and nitrite should not be detectible in a healthy tank. Something's wrong. How long has this tank been set up? As I said, the test kits are not super precise and the 0.6ppm value for amonia could be less and the 0.1ppm nitrite level is actually the first value on the chart, so it could be less or 0 as well. Here's the test kit that I'm using to make the tests: http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/...001700010 101 I just noticed that this is a "pond" test kit...does that matter? The tank has been set up aout 15 months ago. So what would be my first immediate step then? Change the neon for a brighter one as soon as possible? |
#5
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
On Thu, 08 May 2003 12:48:33 -0400, Rich Conley
wrote: I love the name. I had a greater demon of Tzeentch once.... okay....how long is the fluoro light? we can give you wattage with that. How big of a tank is it? we need more info. The neon is 23 inch long. The tank is 29.5 inch (from left to right) by 15 inch up and 12.5 inch from front to rear. Thanks, Tzeentch |
#6
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
That's almost certainly a 20watt florescent bulb--not enough light for
many types of aquarium plants. Fertilizer, CO2 etc. probably won't help much without more light. There are some types of plants (e.g., java moss) that you might have luck with; they don't require much light. Tzeentch wrote in message . .. On Thu, 08 May 2003 12:48:33 -0400, Rich Conley wrote: I love the name. I had a greater demon of Tzeentch once.... okay....how long is the fluoro light? we can give you wattage with that. How big of a tank is it? we need more info. The neon is 23 inch long. The tank is 29.5 inch (from left to right) by 15 inch up and 12.5 inch from front to rear. Thanks, Tzeentch |
#7
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
Your pH is so high it's off my chart, but anything over 8 means you have
virtually no CO2. No CO2 means poor plant growth.Under no circumstances be tempted to add a buffer to bring your pH down. These contain phosphate which is a disaster for algae. Just add CO2, the cheap yeast method is fine. This should kick your plants into life. I agree with the comments about your light. I would suggest 2 tubes. From then on, just watch your plants. Add an iron rich trace element mix for the micro nutrients, N and K for the macros, as you feel necessary. Don't add any aquarium plant food that contains phosphorous. Premature fish death is not normal. They should die of old age( after several years). I've kept freshwater tropicals (on and off) since the late 1960's, and it's only in the last 10 years or so that I've taken a greater interest in the plants, and I've found that with good plants and good water, the fish seem to look after themselves with no disease. In fact, my son still has some fish that he took to university with him 7 years ago ( and that's after 3 house moves). PS use fine sand and gravel. Plants can't root in rocks! "Tzeentch" wrote in message ... Hi everybody, I have a 25 gallon Aquarium populated by Mollies, 4 of them at the time (2 adult (one of them born in the tank) and 2 young (2 months old, born in the tank)). I have never been able to keep the plants in the tank beautifull or even living for a period of more than 2 or 3 weeks. They all wither and die very rapidly once planted. It looks to me as if the roots or the bases of the plants near the root outside the gravel are rotting (althought that might be too strong a term). I've had 6 different varieties of plants, none of which survived very long. My fish seems to die a little bit too much also, although the salesman at the local fish store tells me this is normal. Here are the results of the most recent test: PH: 8.5 KH: 60 ppm (about 3.4, I beleive is the correct conversion) GH: 80 ppm (about 4.5, I beleive is the correct conversion) NH3/NH4 (ammonia): around 0.6 ppm (test kit doesn't give super precise result, so it's around 0.6ppm or maybe a little less) NO2 (Nitrite): 0.1 or less ppm NO3 (Nitrate): 5 or less ppm Neon is open 12 hours a day. No CO2 is added in the tank. I make a 25-40% water change every 7 to 9 days. Tap water is used for that purpose. I add some tap water conditioner (Nutrafin's Aquaplus) and a nitrifier (Nutrifin's Cycle) everytime I make a water change. So, what can I do in the immediate to remedy the situation, and what can I do in the long term to make sure this situation doesn't arise again? Thanks a whole lot for any help. |
#8
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
Yeah, it's the hood and neon that came with the Aquarium, I think it's
20W, but I don't have the specs anymore It probably is. That's less than one watt per gallon - very low light. As I said, the test kits are not super precise and the 0.6ppm value for amonia could be less and the 0.1ppm nitrite level is actually the first value on the chart, so it could be less or 0 as well. Ammonia should be zero. Are you sure the test kit is accurate? I just would not expect there to be measurable ammonia in a tank that has been set up for 15 months, that has only four mollies in it. So what would be my first immediate step then? Change the neon for a brighter one as soon as possible? You can't just change the bulb. All that stuff about plant bulbs, etc., is marketing BS. What really matters is wattage. To increase your lighting, you have to change your light fixture. Add another bulb, or get a power compact flourscent fixture. The easiest might be to get a twin-tube hood; it would probably be enough light for your tank, since it's only 15" high. The kind sold for a 20 gallon long or 29 gallon tank would probably fit your tank, too. Alternately, you could just buy plants that are suited for a low-light tank. Java fern, java moss, anubias, Bolbitis. They can give you a beautiful and easy-care tank. Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#9
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
Your pH is so high it's off my chart, but anything over 8 means you have
virtually no CO2. I wondered if his plants were stripping all the CO2 out of the water, creating that artificially high pH. (If so, increasing surface turbulence should bring it down.) But since he's got less than one watt per gallon, and says his plants aren't growing well, I dunno... Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#10
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
Thanks everybody for giving me those hints. I'll see what I can do to
augment the wattage in the tank before doing anything else. Oh, and just as an add-on to the current conversation. I've known for a while that my PH was too high. I've tried using something called "PH Adjust down": http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/...07751001010 1 to reduce the PH, but that did not work at all. I would sometime succesfully reduce the PH around 7.5, but less than 24 hours latter it was back up to 8+. So I wouldn't be suprised that you're right about my plants eating all the CO2 making the PH bounce back up very quickly. BTW, I've read this newsgroups, several websites and a few other newsgroups and there's so many diferent opinion about this that I don't know...: Is CO2 really a necessity in a tank if I want to maintain plants? Tzeentch On 08 May 2003 22:11:17 GMT, tose (LeighMo) wrote: Your pH is so high it's off my chart, but anything over 8 means you have virtually no CO2. I wondered if his plants were stripping all the CO2 out of the water, creating that artificially high pH. (If so, increasing surface turbulence should bring it down.) But since he's got less than one watt per gallon, and says his plants aren't growing well, I dunno... Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#11
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
BTW, I've read this newsgroups, several websites and a few other
newsgroups and there's so many diferent opinion about this that I don't know...: Is CO2 really a necessity in a tank if I want to maintain plants It depends what plants you want to keep. Once you decide on the plants you like you find out wheather they will require high or medium light. If you need high light (above 2 wpg) you will also need CO2. If you only have low to medium light plants (1.5 - 2 wpg) they don't need the extra CO2 to do well. Some of them won't grow as fast without the extra light and CO2, but that can be a plus too if you don't want to be constantly trimming them. It's all a balancing act with the CO2, light, and nutrients. The plants won't do well if there is too or too little of any one of these parameters. One more thing - ammonia is poisonous to plants as well as the fish. The plants can only utilize ammonium, nitrites and nitrates. Good luck Cris |
#12
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
I would sometime
succesfully reduce the PH around 7.5, but less than 24 hours latter it was back up to 8+. That's a fairly common experience, even in unplanted tanks. It's not easy to permanently change the pH of a tank. Do you know what the pH of your tapwater is? Measure it after letting it sit out in a cup overnight. Or after aerating it with an airstone for 20 minutes. Is CO2 really a necessity in a tank if I want to maintain plants? No. It's only necessary for high-light tanks. If you keep your lighting around 2 wpg and have plenty of aeration, CO2 isn't necessary. If you go above 3 wpg, it *is* necessary. Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#13
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH A PH OF 8+. Mine is 8.2 and everything is fine...I just cant keep
cardinal tetras.... Look into Mbuna, and big heavy hardy plants...like amazon swords....I grow huge amazons in a 55 wiht 4 screw in 14w fluoro bulbs...yeah..thats right..huge amazons, and other plants at 1 wpg... Tzeentch wrote: Thanks everybody for giving me those hints. I'll see what I can do to augment the wattage in the tank before doing anything else. Oh, and just as an add-on to the current conversation. I've known for a while that my PH was too high. I've tried using something called "PH Adjust down": http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/...07751001010 1 to reduce the PH, but that did not work at all. I would sometime succesfully reduce the PH around 7.5, but less than 24 hours latter it was back up to 8+. So I wouldn't be suprised that you're right about my plants eating all the CO2 making the PH bounce back up very quickly. BTW, I've read this newsgroups, several websites and a few other newsgroups and there's so many diferent opinion about this that I don't know...: Is CO2 really a necessity in a tank if I want to maintain plants? Tzeentch On 08 May 2003 22:11:17 GMT, tose (LeighMo) wrote: Your pH is so high it's off my chart, but anything over 8 means you have virtually no CO2. I wondered if his plants were stripping all the CO2 out of the water, creating that artificially high pH. (If so, increasing surface turbulence should bring it down.) But since he's got less than one watt per gallon, and says his plants aren't growing well, I dunno... Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#14
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
One more thing - ammonia is poisonous to plants as well as the fish. The
plants can only utilize ammonium, nitrites and nitrates. NOt tottally true. The plants may only absorb Ammonium, and not ammonia(not sure)...but even so, theres always an equilibrium between the two, so if the plants are eating all the Ammonium, a lot of the ammonia will convert into Ammonium. Rich |
#15
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Plants dying quickly. Help needed please.
THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH A PH OF 8+.
Yeah, but I'm wondering why his pH is 8.5 when his KH is 3. That just seems really strange. And with less than a watt per gallon, I doubt it's the plants that are to blame. Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
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